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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 23:40:41 GMT -5
I am wondering if there are any scientific studies and statistics out there for the benefits of raw diet vs kibble diet. or the benefits of raw meat vs cooked meat. Any documented "experiments" or anything. I got into a conversation with the vet that I work for about raw and he is of the opinion that the meat should be cooked, that it has more nutritional value and less bacterial risk cooked than raw and I am just looking for some solid scientific facts to back me up lol
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Post by Heather on Mar 2, 2012 0:23:27 GMT -5
There are none. Sorry. There are no pockets on this side of the fence that are deep enough. The kibble studies are all funded by big corporations. Raw feeders are you me and a few mom and pop raw food manufacturers. No one to stand up to Hills. You could try using Bob Churches study, but it's not necessarily a pro raw study...just a carnivore's diet...anything other than kibbles. We had it posted, stickied on the old forum...don't know if it's here or not. ciao
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Post by Sherry on Mar 2, 2012 0:26:18 GMT -5
It is. And it should be in the "general diet section, but can't remember for sure at the moment. And Heather's right- the kibble companies are the only ones who can afford those types of studies I'll send you some reading links tomorrow though- if you shoot me a pm and remind me ;D
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2012 1:46:55 GMT -5
Short answer: No. But then again, you have to consider that to date there have been NO scientific studies done to prove the nutritional requirements of ferrets. About the only "study" I've discovered is that done by Marshalls and their venture into developing a "cereal" which would give ferrets the ability to live on a diet similar to that of farmed mink. Couple this lack of data with the appalling so called certification by the AAFCO that a pet food is fine to feed. According to the AAFCO their only stipulation is that the test animal - so far only dogs and cats - must survive on JUST the test food and water for 6 months with no more than a 15% loss of body weight ... see here: wdcusick.com/04.htmlAs mentioned earlier - the kibble manufacturers have BIG money behind them to pay vets, PHds, and do the AAFCO test and heave huge marketing budgets to convince people that their crap in a bag is perfectly fine to feed. While we who feed naturally simply have Mother Nature to guide us, dinky budgets to purchase the food, and about the only advertising we do is to speak to others about the glorious changes in our ferrets when offered the diet they were intended to eat! Personally I believe that placing too much faith in advertisers claims of "Certified", "Meets nutritional requirements", "completely balanced" is risking the life of your ferret - especially when these so called "Perfectly complete and balanced diet" foods get "new" and "Improved" every year! HAH! Scientific study? We don need no stinkin' scientific study! Feed 'em raw! Feed 'em whole prey! Feed 'em naturally what Mother Nature intended and watch them bloom! Cheers, Kim
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Post by kpaz on Mar 2, 2012 2:24:27 GMT -5
My vets here are very much brainwashed into thinking raw diet will kill my ferrets. Goomba had a seizure a few weeks ago, and they immediately blamed it on his diet even though other two ferrets were eating the exact same diet and they're perfectly healthy. They wouldn't even consider trying to find an alternative answer. You'll see changes for the better on raw diet. I heard members on here talking about how it changes a ferret's coat. I didn't really know what that meant. I thought their fur felt ok. Ha! Goomba shed his winter coat and grew in a new coat...it's is pure silk now. He's like...the back-of-a-bunny's neck kind of soft. Even though my family thinks I'm crazy for feeding them raw, they can't deny that his coat looks 100x better and that he's filled out. The other two are shedding their coats now, and I'm excited to feel their new coats. Not to mention they have more energy and completely stopped grinding their teeth since the switch.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2012 9:09:32 GMT -5
O I completely agree, I've seen the raw diet do wonders for Ferrets. My vet said he does not know enough about ferret nutrition to say meat is bad for them, the big point he made was that the meat should be balanced which I do, but that the meat should he cooked as that releases more nutrients and that decreases the risk of samanella and others bacterial infections. But he also said if I had the scientific proof to show that raw diet is better he would like to see it because he would then tell peope about a raw diet. But because all the science is kibble that is what is "tested and proven" that is what he follows because you can't say raw is better with out the scientific evidence to back it up. So I was hoping to enlighten him lol
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Post by Sherry on Mar 2, 2012 11:00:16 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2012 19:58:59 GMT -5
Wysong has a lot of good lierature on this topic. You can contact them and ask for archetypal and epigen samples along with literature.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2012 20:12:22 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2012 1:03:31 GMT -5
At the clinic I work at one of the vets went to a home-cooking seminar which was basically a "lets-bash-raw-diets-and-use studies-done-on-HUMANS-to-extrapolate-why-cooking-for obligate-carnivores-is-better" seminar. We all have to read her notes and sign that we understand them. I've tried asking her questions and explaining why I think the example of the study they use is stupid, but I haven't gotten very far and she IS my boss... so I just keep quiet and when no one's looking.
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Post by Sherry on Mar 3, 2012 1:53:37 GMT -5
Some people will believe what they are determined to believe, since it reaffirms their own theories, and there's not much you can do about it
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2012 15:57:13 GMT -5
Also you can join the free wysong newsletter 100 Pet Health Truths. They send an article everyday with new facts. A lot of the articles promote their products but they are better then most of what you can find at the pet store
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2012 11:42:07 GMT -5
I got the same problem... After Meeko had her operation, the surgeon mentioned I should get her on a high fat, high protein diet. He was like "She would do great on at least 20% fat and 30% protein. I suggest either Totally Ferret, the Living World Extrusion formula, or even the Marshall ferret kibble " I told him all about my grain-free kibble mix with almost 30% fat and 40% protein. I mentioned most of these were cat food, then he got all defensive saying that "Cat nutrition is not high enough in fat and protein for a complete diet". Then, when I told him I had Evo in mu mix, he asked me why I didn't use to Ferret Evo instead of the Cat Evo, and I told him they're essentially the same, but the ferret is like 7$ more a bag. He again got all defensive basically saying "You're ferret, your choice, but don't come blaming me when she's ill again..." So I decided never to mention diet with them again. Since then the guys have been switched to a complete raw diet, and I can only assume what they'd say.... Fortunately, I also found a Holistic Vet in my area. But... their exams are MUCH more expensive.... I'm unsure yet where I'll go for vaccines and yearly checkup... Try and see if you have a Holistic vet in your area?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2012 13:17:28 GMT -5
I went through a similar vet problem years back with Josie, Fozzy and Faylene. First wellness visit with Josie vet commented about her great coat, muscle tone, energy level as being great and amazing then asked about her diet. When revealed it was natural I got an earful about balanced nutrients, safety, bacteria, teeth cleaning studies etc - the whole 9 yards.
I nodded my head and blankly acknowledged his concerns. Months later after rescuing Fozzy & Faylene he saw them, noted Fozzy's obesity and both their teeth issues declared them healthy for their ages! But wanted to see everyone again for follow up since they were at the age when insulinoma sets in. So a few more months goes by and my return visit comes back with transformed natural feeding ferrets and he admits they look great!
I also took with me a list of what they were eating and the nutritional breakdowns as supplied by nutritiondata.com and rodentpro.com he glanced at the list and still commented he was more comfortable with feeding regular kibbles and suggested hills science diet cat as a great food! I bit my tongue, said I understood his concerns but insisted he keep the list with their file.
It wasn't too long after that when Josie began her downhill battle with JL. During one visit for a blood sample she was still so strong it took 4 people to immobilize her!
He was the vet I used for her final send off. But I quit him when his office wouldn't let me bring Fozzy in when he was having a seizure because it was unscheduled!
I've been to several (5) vets and all but one so far have been PRO kibble. My current vet is PRO natural but still tries to apply test after test for common problems. I had to talk her in to simply providing lupron AND melatonin for Kosmo when she wanted to TRY testing. At least I don't get read the riot act about feeding! stick to your guns, go in with printed ammo and photos, before and after when possible, make a list, do the nutrient breakdown, weigh your ferrets regularly and chart them - in short prove them wrong! Shop for different vets if you can. If all else fails it can help to tell them your preference for feeding natural is much like peoples choice of car is based on what suits them best.
Cheers, Kim
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Post by Sherry on Mar 5, 2012 13:36:36 GMT -5
I see a variety of vets at the clinic I go to right now, all ferret savvy. I've only had one problem with a pro-kibble, anti-raw vet. One of our cats, Herne, had a bladder infection. I'll admit I ended up lecturing her(politely) after she told me I was killing my animals by feeding them raw meat(her exact words). And when she wanted me to consider feeding Herne the Hill's stuff I believe I referred to all of it as "cr*p in a bag" ;D She decided we'd no longer discuss diet after that ;D
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