Revamped Mousery

[Deleted]

No offense taken. I fully realize that each has their own way. And am aware of how many stories there are of males being mean, but it just hasn't been displayed in my set up. The mean ones tend to be the elder females. Have seen them gang up and castrate a male once. Poor guy. They all got culled.

Mice are social critters the males in the tanks help create nests, clean the pups, and even will bring food to the nursing does. From what I've seen the males that eat babies or attack does is just a myth.

I tried removing the males and rotating them through the female bins, but that just stressed everyone out by upsetting them with every change in social group.

As for the back to back breeding well, it hasn't seemed to affect the litters. Typically a maiden doe has a small litter anyway 6 or less, the next few litters get progressively larger up to 14 with 10 being the average. A mouse doesn't live very long anyway around a year for most so getting 8 to 10 litters is pretty good, I'd say.

Considering all the animals in the wild that mice are the mainstay of their diet it doesn't seem likely that breeding back to back is detrimental to their overall health. I seem to recall reading somewhere too that mice have the ability to delay egg implantation. So they can be impregnated during their pup heat but delay implantation and therefore the pregnancy until they are better suited to nourish the eggs as well as the pups. I'll delve into that tthought too and modify the post if I am wrong.

All in all I think so far things are working well as they have been going. The 10 gallon tanks offer them enough floor space to run about, as well as the wheels (although the constant clinking and clacking can get annoying when they push the wheel against the glass).

Their food seems to agree with them both nutritionally and psychologically. The pine shreds are kiln dried and processed and have no more smell than the pellets. The mice exhibit no indication of respiratory aggravation or distress.

With fall here craft supply stores are selling mini bales of straw and I'll pick up one or two to give the mice a treat. Am sure they'll enjoy the straw as much as they did the corn husks they got this summer!

I think that, like the info for managing ferrets, a lot of the info on managing mice is just plain WRONG!

But then again, I may have an odd bunch of ferrets and mice!
just a bit of pocket fuzz from myTouch Q

[Deleted]

I know for sure that back to backs can be detrimental. In the wild, mice are only out to procreate. Their litters are culled to manageable sizes by predators.

Males will raise pups and are great at it, that's a given, the only reason to separate them is the back to back litters.

It may be working that way for you but it doesn't always and I personally wouldn't do it that way but that's just me.

[goingpostal]

I got rid of the wheels for mine several years ago, kept forgetting to knock them over at night and the squeaking and rattling mean I don't sleep! I got a good deal on a small rack system and man does that ever save time and effort on cleaning day. Tanks are such a hassle.

[Deleted]

OI love those long haired mice! I'm working to get my fawn/orange satin's to have coats like that.

Long hair keeps showing up because it is a recessive trait.

Texlad lab blocks are used by many of the top breeders in the US. They are very high quality. If there is anything in the block that isn't suppose to be there such as mildew or molds associated with corn, it will ruin sometimes years of lab research so the company is very diligent to keep the blocks very high quality. I'd trust those to be tested more than bird mixes.

I use saucers for my mice. No noise and they fit in my breeding bins.

Back to back breeding produces weaker moms, and poorer nutrition for the babies. It often results in smaller mice as well. A mother mouse can only fully feed 4-6 babies. Once the litter is larger than that, all the mice have to share the nutrients and milk that would have fully provided for the 4 to 6. Many people have tested this by tracking the bubs weight on a daily basis and come to the same conclusion. When people accusomted to store mice look at mine they always comment on how much bigger the mice are. Overall production goes down, but that doesn't matter if you aren't selling the mice at a per mouse rate. The resulting mice will be bigger. Moms should have a break between litters too. Keeping the male in there almost always ensures that the mother will have to be providing for the newborns and the ones growing in her belly at the same time. In the wild litters are usually partially eatten by preditors, so this is a bit less of a problem. However, in the wild they are breeding for the survival of the species and that doesn't always benefit the individual.

[Deleted]

So its been a year apparently and I am updating my mousery info again. Started seeing a high incidence of tumors and small litters, as well as sudden deaths of adult breeders. So I bit the bullet and tried feeding rat/mouse blocks. Granted, these were from Wal-Mart and were the Eight In One brand, but I was wondering if there was some sort of preservative or mold inhibitor on the bird seeds. I quickly realized that the blocks would be too expensive to feed to my large colony. So a review of the ingredients and comparison to dog food (egads) revealed a parallel.

So I switched. I do not use Purina because they use glycol in their puppy mix. So I am feeding Old Roy puppy or regular dry dog food. The mice go nuts for it. The kibble are perfect sized for them to hold. Seem to offer good texture for their chewing needs. I don't see them seeking out wood chunks to chew or biting the water bottle holders anymore.

Tumors have disappeared. Litters are up in quantity and frequency. Usually two females per tank of the three whirling at same time. Am able to feed mice to my fourteen ferrets twice a week now.

Planning to add more tanks through the winter. Currently at 15, each having 1 male and three females. Generally twelve tanks have pups. One tank holds feeders for growing to food weight. If I can double my tank count, then more mice can be fed per week. Unfortunately several of my crew are now 8 years old with adrenal disease fairly advanced, so my business will likely shrink this winter. The remainders will be happy to get mouse morsels more often.

Admittedly dog kibble isn't holistic, but neither was the tumors and deaths. Old Roy isn't high dollar, but is better than Purina and many others.

Mice still get uneaten bones and kitchen scraps, but dog kibble is their staple. Average litter size has been 10 pups and as large as 20 for mature Does. First time Does usually whelp 2 to 6 pups. Usually have 20 to 35 feeders growing at any given time.

So, at this point, some kibble is at least good for mouse food.

Sent from my A100 using proboards

[Sherry]

Oh wow! Thanks for the update Kim, as well as the possible solution to the problems you'd been having.

[goingpostal]

I am using Mazuri 6f for most of my mouse feed, they ship up to 2 bags for $10. Just don't have the time or money to feed them nothing but homemade, they get my grain mix and scraps a couple times a week though.

[Deleted]

I made breeding towers when I was breeding mice for genetics. The white/ pew tend to have more babies because they have been bred that way by labs. I'm partial to the longhaired and tricolors myself.

Harlan Teklad feed blocks are lab quality and used by most show breeders in the U.S.. Mazuri is a close second in quality. Teklad also has different protein levels to allow for the feeding of nursing females or a lower protein feed for non-breeders.

Equine pellets are fine to use. They have been processed so that the concerns with pine shavings don't apply.

[Deleted]

Well the move to feed the Ol Roy dog food or puppy chow has continued to be a good move. The mice are maintaining good weights and productive litters. Definite reduction practically total elimination of visible tumors in the mice, that I was seeing fairly regularly when feeding the seed/grain mix. Makes one wonder 'bout that, doesn't it?

I fed the tumor mice to my snake - not the ferrets. Figure mammal tumors eaten don't stand a chance of developing into reptile tumors. I have this weird idea that cancers ingested can become cancer in the diner. Sometimes Slinky would let a particularly rough looking mouse alone.
Now without the tumors showing up the mice served to Slinky are just old. She seems to like that.

The fuzz ems are getting two mouse morsel meals a week now, and I have an average of 70 - 100 or more feeders growing to meal size at a time in two tanks. Nine tanks whelping and nursing with another 75 -100 pups, 5 tanks with either new families getting to know eachother or breeders without pups yet.

Figure if I build up another 5 actual tanks whelping then I can offer 3-4 mouse morsel meals each week. I would have to double my tanks in order to raise enough mice to substantially offset their frankenprey items, or provide enough mice to freeze. That would require a much more expensive air handler for the bathroom - which is where my mousery is now.

Pictures to follow when I find them.