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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2012 11:43:04 GMT -5
I'm in the process of switching my furries over to a whole prey diet, and they now eat pinkies and chicks alongside their kibble (they actually prefer this now, and leave the kibble until they get really hungy  ). However, I'm having a few problems, mostly with freezer space, as ours is tiny, and I can't store many whole prey at a time - about a weeks worth I calculated. Each time I order stuff online, there at leasta £6 delivery charge, and I have to make sure I'm going to be here to get it. If I went for a Frankenprey diet, I'd be able to keep more stuff in the fridge, and buy the raw stuff a few times a week from the butcher round the corner, and save on delivery costs, as I'd only be ordering every couple of weeks. I now have a ton of questions about a mixed and whole prey diets. Apologies in advance! If there are tables or charts on the internet that tell me this sort of thing, if someone could point me in the right direction that wold be great! Firstly if I go down the mixed route, are there any rules about how many different kinds of proteins they need, and whether the raw days need to be "bone in"? For bone in, does there have to be a specific proportion of bone:meat:fat or anything? On the raw days, do I need to have some days that are just organ days, and if so, what proportion of these different organs? I know heart counts as a muscle meat, and liver and kidneys are important, but anything else? If I feed whole prey on 4 days for example, would it be okay if they were all mice, and then they got their other proteins from the raw days? Sorry for the billion and one questions!  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2012 12:05:17 GMT -5
Firstly if I go down the mixed route, are there any rules about how many different kinds of proteins they need, and whether the raw days need to be "bone in"? So when feeding frankenprey, you need a minimum of 3 proteins. The same applies to whole prey = 3 proteins. So you can mix and match however you like, as long as they are getting 3 different proteins in the diet (minimally - more is better). When feeding just frakenprey, you have about 8-9 bone in meals (about 60%), 4-5 boneless meals (about 32%) (of which 1 meal is entirely heart) and 1 organ meal (about 7%). That is on a schedule of 2 meals a day, 7 days a week = 14 total meals. If you feed whole prey meals, those are perfectly balanced. I just take those out of the calculation. So, for example, if you feed 4 whole prey meals, you have 10 meals left. Of those 10, about 6 should be bone in, 3 should be boneless (and 1 of those 3 should be heart) and 1 organ meal. For bone in, does there have to be a specific proportion of bone:meat:fat or anything? I try rotate my bone in sources so that they get a good variety that balanced out in the end. My kids eat almost all the bones from a chicken, so they get legs (not very bone dense , lots of meat) and necks (very bony and little meat). I also feed bone from 3 different animals to try to give them more variety. I always feed meats with the skin on too On the raw days, do I need to have some days that are just organ days, and if so, what proportion of these different organs? I know heart counts as a muscle meat, and liver and kidneys are important, but anything else? I feed 1 entirely organ meal once a week. It is 50% liver, 50% other organ. So, you would feed a meal of half liver, and the other half is any other organs you can get. Spleen, brain, kidney, thymus, reproductive organs, etc. If you cannot get a hold of any other organ sources, up the meal to 100% liver for the interim. If I feed whole prey on 4 days for example, would it be okay if they were all mice, and then they got their other proteins from the raw days? If whole prey mice were fed 4 days (8 meals), that is almost 60% of the entire diet on one protein. As long as you have adequate variety in the other meals, it should be fine, but I personally prefer to keep any one protein under 40% of the entire diet. Can you mix it up with mice and rats? That would give some extra variety since mice and rats have different nutritional compositions. Also remember, with any whole prey, please try to feed mainly adult prey. Babies like pinkies and chicks should be treated as candy - a treat now and then. They are low in nutritional value. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2012 12:13:30 GMT -5
That's really helpful and clear, thank you. I'll need to find another source for my rats and mice then, because if I feed both they only come in packs of 100 which are too big to put both in my freezer, but that's no problem.
I've heared that baby animals don't have enough calcium in, like you said, and wondered what counts as a baby? Obviously pinkies, fluffs and hoppers/jumpers, but what about small and medium mice/rats? DO only large and jumbo rats count as adult? Sorry for all of the questions!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2012 12:22:46 GMT -5
I think small and medium mice/rats are fine. This chat gives the nutritional breakdown of whole prey. They compare neonatal, juvenile mice, and adult mice. www.rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.aspThey consider an adult mouse 10 g or more. Juvenile is between 3-10 g. So I would think a small mouse would fall on the upper end of juvenile, or into the adult category. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2012 13:19:12 GMT -5
Okay, so after lots of getting annoyed with my calculator, I've come up with this menu plan. What do ou guys think? Does it sound like I've got everything about right?
Monday AM - Whole prey rabbit
Monday PM - Bone in - ground chicken
Tuesday AM - Boneless - Beef
Tuesday PM - Whole prey - Ground Whole Rabbit
Wednesday AM - Whole Prey - Mice
Wednesday PM - Organ Meal - Half chicken liver, half ox heart
Thursday AM - Bone in - ground chicken
Thursday PM - Boneless - beef chunks
Friday AM - Bone in - Turkey necks
Friday PM - Whole prey - ground whole rabbit
Saturday AM - Whole Prey - Mice
Saturday PM - Whole Prey - Whole ground rabbit
Sunday AM - Whole Prey - Mice
Sunday PM - Bone in - Turkey necks
This gives me 7 whole prey meals, 1 organ meal (50:50 liver:heart), 4 bone-in meals (but two are low bone), 2 boneless meals, with a total of 6 proteins.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2012 13:45:33 GMT -5
First issue I see is that the organ meal should be 50 liver and 50 another organ. Heart isn't as organ, it's a muscle meat and fills a boneless meal spot.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2012 14:30:32 GMT -5
Monday AM - Whole prey rabbit Monday PM - Bone in - ground chicken Tuesday AM - Boneless beef and rabbit heart Tuesday PM - Whole prey - Ground Whole Rabbit Wednesday AM - Whole Prey - Mice Wednesday PM - Organ Meal - Half rabbit liver, half other organs Thursday AM - Bone in - ground chicken Thursday PM - Boneless beef chunks and rabbit hearts Friday AM - Bone in - Bone in - rabbit and chicken mince Friday PM - Whole prey - ground whole rabbit Saturday AM - Whole Prey - Mice Saturday PM - Whole Prey - Whole ground rabbit Sunday AM - Whole Prey - Mice Sunday PM - Bone in - Chicken bone in mince Would this be better? Any idea roughly how many grams 2 very small 9 month old jills and a 5 month large hob would eat? Read more: holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=newbies&thread=5416&page=1#ixzz1katk566u |
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Post by Heather on Jan 26, 2012 16:44:13 GMT -5
Looks good. I'm guessing that by other organs and you're feeding rabbit you're talking about kidneys and lungs (that's what my guys got last night). As far as what they will eat at this point all 3 are basically kits....so feed them what they want and will eat. That hob is at the right age to eat you out of house and home ;D Baby fuzz....furry tummies with teeth  ciao |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2012 4:01:13 GMT -5
I know lol, he eat literally EVERYTHING. My girls I can trust not to do stupid things like eat leaves if they fall in their cage, but Spike obviously feels the need to taste it to make sure it's not food. The builders who are working on next doors roof dropped a crisp packet in the garden, and he'd dragged it through the cages of the bar and was chewing on it, thankfully hadn't really gotten started so there was nothing to swallow.
He also loves water, but can't swim, and still hasn't figured this out. Every time we go anywhere near some wwater on our walks he makes a beeline for it, and ends up spluttering and choking until I haul him out by his lead, silly boy. He never learns, bless him, he's pretty slow-learning for a fuzz-butt.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2012 4:02:13 GMT -5
Menu alll ordered, can start properly on Tuesday, for the weekend I'll try giving them less and less kibble and more mice.
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