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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2011 19:55:29 GMT -5
That all sounds like a good plan to me What you can do is give them the whole meats (i.e. the chicken wings cut up) and then just put the soup over top of it like a gravy - that way they are getting the egg shell / organ / heart balance from the soup as well as getting used to eating bigger pieces of meat to build up their jaw strength. Keep trying the bones in the mean time (mine never eat the large bones from the chicken wings, I know which one's you're talking about). You can always smash the bigger bones up with a hammer Definitely offer them the turkey, but since turkey is pretty close to chicken, why don't we see if they'll take some pork next? If you have a chance to go shopping in the next few days, have a look and see if you can find something called "pork button bones" or "pork end bones". I like the button bones best because they are very flat and shaped like buttons and you can cut them in halves/quarters with sharp butcher scissors quite easily. The pork end bones also have smaller bones that you can cut up/smash a little bit. These are the only pork bones that ferrets can really get through. If you can't find either of those, you can get some plain pork muscle meat, but I figure we might as well get them eating the one with the bones if we can Definitely give them the hearts with pumpkin too, it's a good idea to start getting some taurine in them. Actually you can feed them hearts as their whole morning meal if you like (just be prepared for some darker stools from the rich blood in the heart). For two ferrets if their meal is JUST consisting of hearts - they'll probably eat about 10-15 hearts between them. But to start you can offer them maybe 5-10? See how they handle that And then some raw soup too at the same time. If you don't think Dids is eating the kibble, then why not hold off on separating them. Once we getting him eating a super tasty raw variety *fingers crossed* he hopefully won't go for the kibble anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2011 8:30:56 GMT -5
not much luck with the hearts this morning. I took three and cut them into smaller pieces and poured the raw soup over it. They licked up all the soup and maybe ate a few pieces of the heart so i'm going to take out the kibble and try again in a few hours (9am and they just went to sleep).
All i have thawing in the fridge is the turkey neck so if they dont wanna eat the heart after a few more hours i'm going to give them the turkey because its what i have on hand. I can try pork this evening if they still refuse the heart.
I will look for the button and end bones. By "pork muscle meat" what exactly would i be looking for? I know what ya mean but not sure what i would be looking for at the store.
i split the pumpkin up into threes and will give it to them every meal from now on, like this idea because i was giving it to them just because i been reading its good for them but now that i REALLY understand "why" this makes more sense.
Baby legs is still eating the soft kibble and once again this morning while he was poking around in the raw food bowl i put some on his nose and he didn't freak out so this has got to be a move in the right direction.
Oh one last thing ... Cici is starting to chew on the power cable of my pc ... i dont wanna buy any of the stuff from the store "time out" or whatever it is. I have vinegar for washing their fleece bedding. Can i put some of it on there while she is chewing to make her stop? I have been scruffing her, hissing in her face a little and telling her "no bite" but it doesn't seem to be working. Also i have super chews that i have been giving her when she is chewing and it seems to keep her busy for a few minutes but not long.
Dids wouldn't eat the hearts so we hand fed him a few pieces of kibble but he didn't really wanna eat it so this is prolly a positive sign.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2011 18:04:58 GMT -5
not much luck with the hearts this morning. I took three and cut them into smaller pieces and poured the raw soup over it. They licked up all the soup and maybe ate a few pieces of the heart so i'm going to take out the kibble and try again in a few hours (9am and they just went to sleep). That's actually a great start for the hearts so don't get discouraged! Let me know how they do with them once they are a little more hungry. Hearts and organs always the hardest meats to get them to "try" (and Beef too, it has a stronger taste) so don't worry if they are a little slow to catch on All i have thawing in the fridge is the turkey neck so if they dont wanna eat the heart after a few more hours i'm going to give them the turkey because its what i have on hand. I can try pork this evening if they still refuse the heart. I will look for the button and end bones. By "pork muscle meat" what exactly would i be looking for? I know what ya mean but not sure what i would be looking for at the store. Turkey necks sound like a good meal for tonight. What I have to do with turkey necks is split them into smaller chunks. If you cut them a bit with scissors/a knife and then find a spot where the vertebra bones touch and twist as hard as you can, they will separate (and then you just have to cut the spinal cord with scissors). I find if I divy them up into chunks that have 2-3 vertebra bones in them and then cut the meat so it's still attached but hanging off the bones - the ferrets have an easier time with them. Mine have also learned to eat the bones over time, but you might have to smash them up with a hammer at first to get them to try it. Some never quite manage to get through the turkey neck bones though. As for the pork, by "muscle meat" I just mean anything without edible bone in it, so pork tenderloin, pork chops (they wont be able to get through the bone), even pork ribs (once again won't be able to eat the bone). Pork tenderloin is a big hit with my girls i split the pumpkin up into threes and will give it to them every meal from now on, like this idea because i was giving it to them just because i been reading its good for them but now that i REALLY understand "why" this makes more sense. Sounds good I also checked about the oil and the light olive oil is fine to give so feel free to give them more than you are giving (I think you said you give 1 tsp per 3 ferrets per day), why not up that to 1/2 tsp per ferret? That way you can put it on their hearts and use it as bribery Baby legs is still eating the soft kibble and once again this morning while he was poking around in the raw food bowl i put some on his nose and he didn't freak out so this has got to be a move in the right direction. That's great news! I have a feeling we are going to have to use "baby steps" with baby legs ;D so every little improvement should be celebrated Oh one last thing ... Cici is starting to chew on the power cable of my pc ... i dont wanna buy any of the stuff from the store "time out" or whatever it is. I have vinegar for washing their fleece bedding. Can i put some of it on there while she is chewing to make her stop? I have been scruffing her, hissing in her face a little and telling her "no bite" but it doesn't seem to be working. Also i have super chews that i have been giving her when she is chewing and it seems to keep her busy for a few minutes but not long. I don't see why yoiu couldn't use vinegar. All of those "bitter apple" biting sprays for ferrets/dogs/cats contain apple cidar vinegar and alcohol so give the straight vinegar a try. Not sure how well it will work... if it doesn't you can also get those cord protectors (they are plastic and have citronella scent infused into them) from the pet store. I hate to say it but you might just have to find a way to move the cord to a higher place or hide it somehow though, because cords can be super dangerous for ferrets and once they decide they like to chew something, while there's not a lot we can do to convince them otherwise A big part of "ferret proofing" is making the house safe for them no matter how inconvenient it becomes for us. ;D Dids wouldn't eat the hearts so we hand fed him a few pieces of kibble but he didn't really wanna eat it so this is prolly a positive sign. Sounds like Mr. Dids has become a smart ferret and wants nothing to do with that icky kibble ;D Try again with the hearts with him, put a few drops of oil on and see if that helps, always does the trick for my girls Let me know how the second attempt at the hearts go, how they handle the turkey necks and what kind of pork meat you end up finding and we'll go from there Keep up the great work!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2011 20:10:45 GMT -5
Not much luck on the hearts at all today. I made more soupie with the left over turkey instead of chicken.
I cut as much meat as i could off the turkey neck to use for soup. I saved the bone which still has quite a bit of meat left on it. I gave up on it after a while because it was hard to get off. I decided to save it for when they are better at eating the meat off of bones.
I got pork rib tips and my girl got some pork rib meat. So we are going to start them with that in the morning along with the remaining chicken soup.
I will bump the olive oil up to 1.5 teapsoons for the 3. They did eat some heart pieces but just not that much. Baby Legs did lick some of the raw soup out of a spoon that had olive oil on it but after that one lick he stopped. MOVING FORWARD : D
I can easily move the cable its not a big deal. Just wondering if there was any quick fixes. If not we can work around the issue.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2011 22:52:00 GMT -5
That's AWESOME progress for baby legs Yay! Who knows maybe tomorrow we'll get TWO licks?! Turkey Soup sounds like a plan to me, as do feeding the pork rib tips tomorrow Let me know how those go. How thick would you say the soup is you're feeding right now? And are you always pouring it over chunks of meet or are you giving it straight for some meals? We do want to get them off of the soup eventually (not quite yet) so I'm to have you increase the thickness of the soup (add less water so it's more of a thick gravy) and then if you can feed it WITH some sort of whole meat every meal (i.e. The pork chunks or chicken chunks or turkey chunks), that would be great We want to make sure we're increasing their jaw strength and getting them used to bigger chunks of meat so that they don't get "stuck" on the raw soup stage. Don't worry about the hearts, we'll work on those Yes, unfortunately, I find that moving stuff works best when ferrets start getting into stuff, they are so naughty sometimes!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2011 11:14:23 GMT -5
Baby Legs at some raw soup, maybe 1/4 teaspoon : P, off the plate of pumpkin with 1/2 teaspoon of olive oil. So yay!
The soup is pretty watery, it has some sorta long pieces of chicken skin it in still so its not completely liquid but for the most part its pourable. Tuesday the soup was poured over turkey chunks, yesterday poured over heats. Today i poured the chicken soup over some pork pieces. They did fairly well on the pork.
I didn't think to make the turkey soup a little thicker. But they are going through like 6 ice cubes (haven't weighed the turkey yet) of chicken soup at around 2.5oz each. Heck they almost polished off 4 ice cubes this morning alone plus a few pork pieces.
When i cut up my last chicken leg quarter i will make it gravyesque. and maybe save the very watery soup for Bably legs once he gets used to it.
Hmm think that is all for now. The girl's coat is starting to get super fluffy and its soo pretty. I can't wait until Baby Leg's coat looks like that, his is such a good looking boy already.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2011 1:39:21 GMT -5
FANTASTIC! Yay Baby Legs!!! Definitely keep Baby Leg's soup the same thickness for now and once he's eating a bit more of it, slowly increase the thickness of it This is an excellent step forward! Dids and Cici are doing very good so far, I'm quite pleased with the progress they are making definitely increase the thickness of the soup next time you whip up a batch (putting some watery soup aside for Baby legs) and we'll slowly start to wean them off it. How big of meat chunks would you say they are eating right now? If you think they're doing all right with the current size, I'll have you increase the chunk size a bit, as well as feed a little less soup on top so we get them used to the more "whole" meats. That's great that they are liking the pork, have they eaten any of the bone? The next step is to get them eating more bone (and keep trying to get them a taste for the hearts too a few times per week). What do you currently have in the way of edible bones you could feed them? Also wanted to let you know, while the light olive oil is fine for them, extra virgin olive oil is Better (it helps protect their tummies from heliobacter which can cause ulcers). A lot of ferrets don't like it at first and the other mentors have suggested mixing half olive oil and half salmon/other fish oil to get them used to the extra virgin olive oil, so that's something you could definitely try once you get your hands on some fish oil What other kind of meats do you have on hand? I believe you said earlier that you had some lamb? I'm thinking lamb is the next protein you could try with them Before we add any more variety though...How are their poops looking? I don't wanna overwhelm their tummies too much
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2011 1:51:25 GMT -5
And they will eat a LOT the first few months of the switch - this is normal and they'll decrease the amount they need with time. Their bodies are basically trying to make up for the lost nutrition for the kibble and in doing so they'll eat you outta a house and home! but thankfully it does slow down eventually In the mean time, feed them as much as they'll eat
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2011 12:08:48 GMT -5
Baby boy Legs ate more soup with his pumpkin this morning : D
Last night Cici ate so much pork chunks, i was so proud. The chunks are maybe 1/4 inch^2 to 1/2 inch^2.
Dids and Cici have been kinda acting up this morning so far. Cici keeps hiding the chunks and eating the soup. I need to get a giant tub to put them in so they can eat and not run away with the food. I tried putting them in the bath tub but Dids doesn't enjoy it at all so that idea was scrapped. - Do they hide food when they aren't hungry to save for later? If so then once i see them start that i will just take the food from them. They dont run with it and then eat it, they run with it then put it down, and come get more to hide.
Dids didn't eat too much this morning except soup and maybe two or three pork chunks. We removed the food from the cage after their breakfast. They woke up around 11:30 and I KNOW Dids was hungry cause he kept looking directly at where the kibble bowl is supposed to be. He just didn't wanna eat soup or pork chunks. He ate but he didn't eat much and really didn't want to. I put olive oil on it and everything but he mostly just licked it off and left the food.
I'm leaving for a while (1pm here until around 8pm) so i put the kibble back into the cage. My girlfriend will be home around 7pm but they normally don't wake up until 8. Dont wanna starve them.
No pork bone. Dids has eaten a little bit of bone since we started this but not much.
I'm not sure if the pork bones i have are edible but i could smash em up. Turkey neck is back in the freezer, its so big that i dont think they will even mess with it at this point i can cut it up and mash the bones but i am just planning on saving it for when they are more willing to go for bones. I hate to cut it and mash it all up and them have to throw it out cause they wont eat none of it. Chicken wings and chicken leg quarter, pork rib tip bones (hard to cut but they lick on it but just never chew).
The lamb i had was just a giant bone and we boiled it before we need what to do with it. So we gave it to our neighbors dog.
There poops look pretty good i think. No serious diarrhea or blood so i think its ok.
I dont think they like the turkey soup i made, honestly i dont like the smell either : P ... So after they finish this pork chunks/turkey soup i'm going to make more chicken soup (thicker) and prolly give them another chicken wing. I really feel that we were making more progress with the chicken wing than anything else so far. Its good that they are eating other stuff but it feels like they are resisting. A little resistance is expected but i feel like i'm losing Dids' interest.
Salmon oil is goin on the list : D
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2011 12:53:13 GMT -5
What they are doing with their meat is "stashing it", this is 100% normal behavior and it DOES mean that they are liking the meat and consider it "food" so this is a GOOD sign I promise ;D My girls do the exact same thing, they take some meat, stash it, come back for more meat, stash it. And then eventually they'll eat it (either after they've stashed enough or sometimes not for hours - which is why you gotta leave it in there for them to eat later). I didn't realize you were removing the food so quickly after the meal. How many times are you feeding them per day? If it's twice, feed them in the morning, and leave the meat in the cage until the next meal. Most ferrets don't like to eat their meat right away, rather they will stash it, let it "season" and then eat it. With the kibble, ferrets don't really feel the need to stash it or save it for later, because it's just not that tasty. Stashing food is kind of like a compliment, "this food is delicious so I must hide it from everyone and save it for later" ;D I actually put brown paper bags in my girls' cage (like the brown paper lunch bags) and this is where they stash their food and go eat it later. You can also get some sort of tub and make a feeding den Otherwise you may find they like to stash it in their litter boxes - also totally normal, but kind of icky ;D It's probably too late now, but next time this happens, leave the meat in there with them INSTEAD of replacing the kibble (except for Baby Legs). Meat chunks will stay good for around 12 hours, and they will dry out before they spoil, so that's not a concern. Most ferrets won't eat spoiled meat unless they are super hungry anyways. Why don't you offer the chicken wings again? And then if they do well will those, see if you can pick up a whole chicken or Cornish hen (basically just a smaller chicken) and we'll offer them some other bones - they can eat the rib cage, wings, back, neck, and smashed up legs, so you can make it last a few meals. Then offer the pork again in a few days time and make sure they'll still eat. It's possible they are just getting bored with the pork / don't really like the turkey soup. Keep up the good work with Baby Legs too! Does that sound like an okay plan to you?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2011 10:15:10 GMT -5
I dont feed them in their cage. Its a plastic tub with a towel (so they dont slip) They know exactly where to go to be fed though. Every time Cici gets let out she runs directly for the tub and stares at me until something to eat is placed inside. I put the soup on a plate with the chunks, usually they lick all the soup up and eat a few chunks (Cici more than Dids) and start to stash the rest. I figured they were doing this because they were full and saving the rest. Its no big deal if they hide it in the kitchen cause its tile so i will start leaving it out for them. I leave food in the tub and in their stash spots until they go to sleep then i pick it up, rinse it off, clean the spots and put the food back in the fridge. They get fed atleast 3 times a day right now. but it might turn into twice a day soon with me going back to school monday.
How did you train them to put the food in specific spots in the cage? Or do you just put the bags where they stash it? My ferrets never stash food inside their cage, always around the house. This whole process would be alot easier if i could just put food in cage. We use fleece as bedding and wash about once a week. I feel (i'm not too much of a germaphobe) like that would be kinda bad to have the raw meat in the fleece like that. I can try the bags though that is a good idea.
Last night Dids was lookin kinda pathetic, i dont know what was wrong but my girlfriend said she tried wet kibble, pork, chicken, turkey soup and hard kibble and he ate nothing. I came home and gave him some olive oil and pumpkin (thinking maybe this would help his tummy if it was upset, we have pepto but they refuse to lick it). He ate a few pork chunks after that and some hard kibble, poor boy didn't want him to starve.
Well this morning he didnt eat pork but I THINK its because i pull the pork out of the fridge and feed it to them and he doesn't like it cold. So i ran the small chunks under a cold tap for a few seconds and try to warm it up some. He ate quite a few after that so good sign there. Cici doesn't care she will eat pretty much anything at this point.
I made more chicken soupie and its pretty thick, almost a paste. I had to scoop it out of the processor with a spoon to get it into the ice cube trays. Turkey soup should be done today along with the pork chunks. So chicken soup and chicken wings for tomorrow.
I'm so glad i signed up for this mentor program, never would have figured all this stuff out on my own. Again, i'm still very new to ferrets just over 6 months.
What i do with the kibble is i been soaking it for a few mins and only put it in the cage while they are up and about so if i see Dids eating it i can take it from him, but atleast it is available for Baby Legs to eat. When they go to sleep after their morning romp i take it out until around noon-1 when they wake up again. they play for prolly another 1-2hrs, then i take it back out. Once they wake up around 8 i put the kibble back in for good until the morning.
I'm not goin make the turkey soup again but i will still feed em the chunks and maybe after the next few days of chicken they will start eating off the bone again and i can break out the turkey neck again.
I know they like the pork but i think it was the turkey that was turning them off it. I didn't give them turkey soup this morning and they ate quite a bit of pork chunks, EXTRA VIRGIN OLIVE OIL (FINALLY!!!!) and pumpkin.
This might be kinda out of order from your post ( i try to keep it in order sorta). I think we will make alot more progress if i leave the food out for them. This will prolly help keep Dids off the kibble too. Thanks!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2011 23:33:13 GMT -5
I would definitely recommend feeding them in their cage, especially when you go back to school and can only feed twice a day. They need access to the food during the day for sure and during the night (I assume you cage overnight) as they tend to eat most overnight I find. The first time I put the brown paper bags in, they were naturally drawn to them because their dark and are a safe place to eat (kind of like a ferret's den in the wild). I use fleece bedding as well (I have a ferret nation) and yes it does get a bit messy but as long as you wash the bedding once per week it's fairly sanitary. Actually I've completely removed the fleece bedding on the level I feed them on and that way I can wipe It down with a 50/50 vinegar/water solution to keep the germs down
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2011 23:41:09 GMT -5
I'm glad Dids seems to be feeling better. Keep an eye on him and give him some more pumpkin if he doesn't seem totally back to himself, they can get floating blockages sometimes (usually hairballs) and extra pumpkin and oil won't hurt just to be safe Some ferrets definitely are picky about temperature of the meat so feel free to warm it up like you did running it under water (just don't heat anything with bones - don't wanna cook them). Leaving the meat in the cage overnight will definitely encourage Dids and Cici to eat more raw and less kibble leave the kibble in for Baby Legs of course. That's GREAT about the extra virgin olive oil (I'll refer to it as EVOO from now on - it's easier ) If baby legs is doing well with the soup, offer him the thicker soup ( water it down so it's slightly more thick than the soup she was eating but not quite as thick as what the soup is now) and let me know how he does with it Let me know how offering the food longer goes, it should definitely help!!! Also if you are really worried about germs in the cage you can make a plastic feeding den for the cage and put shower hooks in it (the metal ones) and hook the meat on it so they can't drag or stash it. My girls hated this so I stopped doing it but a lot of ferrets do well with it. There's a feeding den pictures thread, I'll be back with the link Other than that let's try them again on some chicken wing bones, sound good?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2011 23:47:49 GMT -5
All right I can't link it on my phone but go to the PHOTOS section and then Creative Rooms and Cages and it's a sticky at the top called "feeding dens". There's some photos and it links to the old forum with more pics. I think the paper bags work fine, mine rarely stash the food in places other than their bags and I just throw the bags out with uneaten food stashed in them after 12 hours. Let me know if you have questions
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2011 15:45:28 GMT -5
I put some chicken soup (its almost a paste, Dids doesn't seem to like it much) in the cage with a few chunks. Neither of them appear to be very thrilled to eat it. Might have to add more water for a few more tries before this paste.
They just keep taking pieces of chicken and hiding it around the house which is fine but its not being eaten. They all seem to be acting very normal, Cici has been amazing since the change. Even Dids has been pretty playful today so far. So i hope between the chunks of food and the soup they are getting what they need.
Baby legs still isn't eating soup unless its just a tiny bit masked by something else ie: pumpkin/olive oil.
I have a fresh chicken wing that i will use as an experiment tonight with the paper bags.
I will check out the photos
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