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Post by Heather on Aug 20, 2011 21:24:50 GMT -5
HF Forum Username: LoveUsSomeWeasels
1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets?
We have mostly been learning about the natural diet from HFF
2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret.
- We are interested in the switch to raw with bones but no live or commercial. I have access to a good variety of raw meat already at reasonable prices.
3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet?
- We look into the food we feed ourselves and in turn we look into what we feed our animals. We want them to enjoy their time here with us as much as we enjoy their time here.
4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as committed. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment?
- We are willing and able.
5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for?
- 3! Dids – (DEW)adopted 4-5 years old, male, no health issues, I don’t think he is heavy but he isn’t proportioned like I feel he should be, We have had him since February 14, 2011. - Baby Legs O’Houlihan (black sable - could be wrong) – 9 months – 1year, male, no health issues, He seems very playful happy, doesn’t seem over or under weight, May 28, 2011. - Cici (silver sable - i could be wrong)– adopted 10-11 months old, female, I think her hind end is a bit weak but other than that she is happy go lucky, maybe a bit underweight but I think its more a muscle thing than weight. Since August 2, 2011.
6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc)
- They eat Zupreem kibble, they get about 2-3 teaspoons of pumpkin/1 teaspoon olive oil (between the three not eat ferret) every morning, sometimes I give some ferretone to the two babies but its maybe ¼ teaspoon between the two. They don’t get many treats but we have given them N-Bones in the past but they are gone now and hope the change in diet can eliminate them and look into some more awesome treats that are good for them because if the diet takes care of the teeth then we could just give em something exotic for treats. They have one or two super chews left, mostly I give them to the girl when she chews on stuff I don’t want her too so I put that in front of her and move her. *Yesterday* I started putting raw chicken leg piece/skin/liver/turkey neck in front of them to see if they would just on the off chance dive right in. Cici (female) has taken to this right off the bat!!! I haven’t given her any bones yet (I’m still not sure exactly how to feed her bones) but she has eaten any raw food I have placed in front of her. I don’t know how much she has been eating, not a whole lot but as much as she will eat, but I did just buy a fancy new scale to start weighing the food. They all have kibble in the bowl still so they aren’t starving yet. Dids (the older one) has eaten a little bit of the raw food, not like cici, but he eats it. Baby Legs Ohoulihan WILL NOT eat chunks or drink the raw soup at all, just flat out refuses. .
7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? - No 8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? - I’m Justin (28) and my girlfriend, Caitlin is 24 – we live in Orlando Florida. I am a going to school for Education in Mathematics and my girlfriend works full-time (that’s why I’m writing all this).
-We never thought about ferrets until we were offered one (Dids) for adoption. He was 4 when we got him and fed cat food his whole life in a small cage. Someone we knew was giving him away so we took him in. Even we knew he wasn’t supposed to look like that or eat that stuff. Baby Legs we got on a spur of the moment, I think we were buying litter and there was a sale on ferrets $60 and he was sooo beautiful we had to give Dids some company. Cici was picked up from a craigslist add for a free ferret and she just looks thin and weak in a bed of wood chips with no litter box. We love them all so much its so pathetic!!! So that is why we are here cause we are so sadly in love with our ferrets that we want them to eat better than we do.
9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? - Every day plus we both have smart phones.
10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible)
Hi and welcome to the mentoring program. In a little while your mentor (Carpetshark) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2011 0:07:31 GMT -5
Hi there LoveUsSomeWeasels! I'm honoured to be joining you on this journey! Here's a little bit about me: Name: Steph HF User Name: CarpetSharks37 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada About Me: I’m a fourth year University student currently majoring in Sociology while I figure out what I want to do with my life. I am owned by eight wonderful critters: Kima and Lola – 2 large breed dogs rescued from provincial native reserves, an itty bitty Yorkie Poo named Maggie, 2 kitty cats – Marbles and Magic, a Hedgehog named Oakley and of course the two ferrets – Sophie & Olivia. My favorite color is..... Purple. Purple is my happy colour. If something is purple I will instantly love it ten times more My favorite food is.... That would have to be a tie between Canadian Snow Crab Legs and Frozen Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough (Homemade and egg-free so it won’t give you salmonella ) My favorite holiday is... I’m a hardcore Christmas fan. I love carols, love wrapping presents, love giving presents, love Christmas trees and there is nothing sweeter than the anticipation of Christmas eve. Love, love, love. My favorite hobby is... Reading. There is nothing more satisfying the feel of a good book in your hands. I also love writing and attempting to play my guitar. I like to listen to... Taylor Swift. I actually never used to be much of a country fan but I’m really digging the country music these days. That and alternative rock. I love finding really good songs that no one’s heard of. Also a lot of YouTube singers who don’t necessarily have record deals but write their own music and are incredible singers. I collect... Pets? or at least that’s what it’s starting to seem like. I used to collect Beanie babies, now I’d say I collect purple things, summer dresses and good books. Something about me you might be surprised to know... I’ve got a new perspective on life. Back in 2009 I was unfortunate enough to catch the lovely H1N1 virus and even though it didn’t make me all that sick at the time, it wrecked long-term havoc on my immune system and triggered the emergence of some genetic and chronic conditions. I have since been diagnosed with Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Gastric Reflux Disease, Vasomotor Rhinitis (swollen upper airways & hypersensitive immune system) along with Migraines with Aura (scary visual disturbances) and an Anxiety Disorder. What can I say? – I’ve got the whole set. These conditions have completely changed the way I am able to live my life, every day is a battle and I am often feeling quite sick or down but overall it’s changed who I am as a person and made me want to fight for my health. I am nowhere close to being “better” and I’m not sure I’ll ever get there but I’m open about my conditions, I’m not embarrassed to talk about it or share my story and I’m staying positive. I like to think that I’m on a healing journey. I became a mentor because... My two greatest passions in life are helping people and helping animals and as a mentor on here, I get to do both. I also love writing and teaching, which I also get to do as a mentor. Dealing with my own digestive conditions has also taught me that a natural diet and simple diet is the best medicine for humans, just as a natural and simple diet for ferrets is the best way to prevent health issues for them down the road. My other animals currently aren’t on raw diets, mostly because they all have severe urinary issues, require prescription food and all the vets I’ve spoken to say it’s too risky at this point to make the switch – but hopefully one day I’ll be able to move them, or if not, my future other pets onto a more natural diet too. About My Ferrets: Double trouble. That’s Olivia and Sophie all right. I got these two monsters back in April of this year and they are both four-month old females (possibly sisters). Sophie is a chocolate with a mask and Olivia is a champagne (at least that’s what colour they were the last time I asked – they are changing colours like crazy!). Sophie is the sweetheart – she gives me kisses and cuddles and is such a sweet-natured angel…well minus her foot fetish - ouch does she bite toes hard! Olivia on the other hand is my evil ferret. I say that in THE most endearing way, I love her evil little ways . She makes these “nom nom” noises like she’s going to bite you and does the oh so famous “lick lick chomp” and sometimes she’ll just come out of nowhere and bite your arm flab – like I don’t feel insecure enough about my arm flab . She has her sweet moments though and they are both crazy babies who I adore. Unfortunately Olivia has had these mysterious coughing fits since I got her and x-rays have revealed fluid build-up / a possible tumour in her lungs/heart we still haven’t reached a definitive diagnosis but things aren’t looking to great. I am hoping to get a third ferret soon so that Sophie can start to bond with another ferret – she’s incredibly bonded to Olivia – but in the mean time I am just enjoying every evil little moment I get with Olivia and hoping for the best. Love these crazy critters. About My Natural Feeding Experience: Olivia and Sophie are my first ferrets and I started the raw switching process basically right after I got them. I originally switched them onto freeze-dried raw (Wysong Archetypal 1) then went straight to ground and chopped meats, followed by edible bones and bigger chunks of Frankenprey. They never really had a raw soup stage, but they recently decided to stop eating their organs so I had to re-switch them onto organs using the raw soup stage and can now say I’m pretty experienced with the entire transition process. They currently eat Frankenprey mostly (chunks of meats, edible bones, chopped up organs and hearts) but I do still feed raw soupies (mostly in ice cube form) and freeze-dried raw when I’m in a bind. Type of mentor: Frankenprey, Commercial Raw, Raw Soupies, Freeze-dried Raw. Specialty: Ferrets who are stubborn about eating their organs and decide to un-switch after they’ve switched
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2011 0:09:59 GMT -5
All right, so before we get started, I just want to double check where you are with them eating raw. *Yesterday* I started putting raw chicken leg piece/skin/liver/turkey neck in front of them to see if they would just on the off chance dive right in. Cici (female) has taken to this right off the bat!!! I haven’t given her any bones yet (I’m still not sure exactly how to feed her bones) but she has eaten any raw food I have placed in front of her. I don’t know how much she has been eating, not a whole lot but as much as she will eat, but I did just buy a fancy new scale to start weighing the food. They all have kibble in the bowl still so they aren’t starving yet. Dids (the older one) has eaten a little bit of the raw food, not like cici, but he eats it. Baby Legs Ohoulihan WILL NOT eat chunks or drink the raw soup at all, just flat out refuses. ^^^ Is this still the current food situation with your ferrets? Once again, welcome, and I can't wait to get started!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2011 8:28:50 GMT -5
we get most of these food from my girlfriend work. its all whole meat and bones, none of it is packaged ground.
Yes this is still the situation as of this morning. Dids and Cici both eat chunks of meat, its not minced or anything, they seems to prefer it this way. Dids has eaten some more turkey neck meat, no bones. Cici has eaten plenty of turkey neck meat this morning, no bones yet either. Baby Legs is still refuses, i keep putting it in front of his face to get used to the smell and i scuff him and slip a bit of the juices in his mouth for taste but he still thinks i'm poisoning him. We currently have Chicken leg quarters, chicken hearts, chicken livers, turkey necks, lamb bones (its giant but we were thinking of crushing it up to get it into their system). We are planning on getting some chicken wings for Cici to get some bone in her, if she will eat. Can i buy some eggs (ground shells, also how ground? like a powder or just minced in a food processor? I dont want the small bits of shells to hurt them) or bone meal to start them off to get some calcium in them?
Thanks in advance for all of your help.
Sorry to hear about your illnesses!! I can't believe it had such terrible long term effects like that.
I'm glad you like teaching as much as I do, i'm currently a math tutor to help with my transition into the teaching profession. Eventually i will get my masters and teach higher level math but k-12 will have to do until i can save up money for grad school.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2011 13:23:20 GMT -5
we get most of these food from my girlfriend work. its all whole meat and bones, none of it is packaged ground. So I gather from your original post you're wanting to feed this only and not incorporate any commercial raw (this would be the patties you find at pet stores - it has the bone ground into it), which is perfectly fine and much cheaper too! One thing I do recommend is incorporating some freeze dried into their diet. Freeze dried raw is still raw food but its closer to kibble in the sense that it's super easy to feed and great if you ever need to go on vacation and leave the ferrets with a sitter. Also some vet clinics (mine included) wont feed the ferrets raw if they ever have to be hospitalized but they will feed freeze dried raw or baby food (plain meat-based only) so it's a good thing to try. Wysong Archetypal-1 freeze dried ferret food or Stella and Cheweys freeze dried (the cat version has less veggies but the dog version is fine too once in a while). It's totally up to yourself but ive found it to be super helpful when I'm sick and don't have time or energy to deal with raw food. We could also put baby legs on it as an intermediate step between kibble and raw because it's similar to kibble. Something for you to consider Yes this is still the situation as of this morning. Dids and Cici both eat chunks of meat, its not minced or anything, they seems to prefer it this way. Dids has eaten some more turkey neck meat, no bones. Cici has eaten plenty of turkey neck meat this morning, no bones yet either. This is an amazing start! Good job! Don't worry about the bones, turkey neck bones are quite large to get through and your ferrets need to build up their jaw strength first. The easiest bones for them to get through are rib cage bones (chicken ribs, Cornish hen ribs, quail ribs - if you can find any of these whole) and chicken necks are usually fairly easy for them too, as well as chicken wings. You will have to cut the bones up at first, and even smashing them a bit helps. If you can expose the marrow (this is super tasty), it usually encourages them to give it a try Now you seem a little nervous about bones, so I just wanted to reassure you, raw bones are 100% safe they are flexible and soft and completely digestible and theres basically zero concern of them cutting your ferret's digestive tract. It's COOKED bones that are dangerous - they are brittle and can cause serious damage. So never warm raw meat with bones in the microwave or defrost frozen raw meat with bones in hot water and you'll be good Baby Legs is still refuses, i keep putting it in front of his face to get used to the smell and i scuff him and slip a bit of the juices in his mouth for taste but he still thinks i'm poisoning him. Don't worry, this is pretty common when first switching to raw kibble fed ferrets tend to not recognize "real" food at first. ;D What I'll have you do is make up a batch of raw soup - I will post the recipe in my next post - I'm on my iPhone so its sometimes tricky to copy and paste from other treads. We'll try get Baby Legs to eat the raw soup straight but if not we'll mix a tiny bit in with the kibble. In the mean time, do you feed the kibble dry or moistened? I'm going to get you to moisten the kibble a little bit and see if Baby Legs with eat that - let me know wet food is sometimes a good step between kibble and raw - gets them used to re consistency. We currently have Chicken leg quarters, chicken hearts, chicken livers, turkey necks, lamb bones (its giant but we were thinking of crushing it up to get it into their system). We are planning on getting some chicken wings for Cici to get some bone in her, if she will eat. Sounds like a great selection to start! Let's stick to chicken/turkey for now (I'm pretty sure thats what they've tried so far) as we don't want to overwhelm their little tummies just yet. You can definitely portion the other stuff in smaller bags and freeze it so it lasts Can i buy some eggs (ground shells, also how ground? like a powder or just minced in a food processor? I dont want the small bits of shells to hurt them) or bone meal to start them off to get some calcium in them? Absolutely! I'm going to get you to put the egg shells in the soup recipe that I'm about to post. You can use CRUSHED egg shells (don't worry the pieces won't hurt them or anything like that) or Bone meal but egg shells are usually easier to find (you can make yourself an egg and save the shells for the ferrets ) Don't exceed 1/2 tsp egg shells per 8 oz. Of meat (here's where your scale comes in handy) as you can actually overdose on calcium too. Thanks in advance for all of your help. You are most welcome please let me know if I'm overloading you with information and I'll slow down - you just seem to already have a really good grasp on what you want with the raw switch so I wanted to make sure I kept up with you but feel free to ask me anything, get me to clarify things, there's no such thing as a dumb question! Sorry to hear about your illnesses!! I can't believe it had such terrible long term effects like that. I'm glad you like teaching as much as I do, i'm currently a math tutor to help with my transition into the teaching profession. Eventually i will get my masters and teach higher level math but k-12 will have to do until i can save up money for grad school. Thanks it's been pretty tough but I'm getting better slowly. I will still check in daily with the switch so no worries there that sounds like an awesome career path! Soup recipe and the instructions for feeding it to follow!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2011 13:40:08 GMT -5
All right... here is a basic raw soup recipe: 8oz boneless chicken(any part) a couple hearts one liver 1/2 tsp powdered eggshell puree with enough water to make a soup You're going to want to make it pretty soupie at first. What I'm going to get you to do is keep feeding Dids and Cici the chunks of meat (you can definitely offer them some chicken wings for bones too and see if they take to it) but take the raw soup and put a bit of a "gravy" over the chunks. I actually skipped the raw soup step with my ferrets because they were so easy to switch and I had to go back and get them to eat raw soup after, so it's definitely better to get them eating some now. Raw soup is great to use as a gravy to get them to eat new meats they don't like right away and it's SUPER important when they are sick. For Baby legs - try moistening her kibble with just water and see if she will eat the soft kibble. I want to make sure she will eat moistening kibble BEFORE we start sneaking raw soup into her kibble. You can also try getting Baby Legs to eat the raw soup straight by dabbing drops on her nose and scruffing her and rubbing it inside her lips. Let me know how that all goes, and we'll go from there Are Dids and Cici still eating kibble? I assume all three are in the same cage?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2011 18:07:19 GMT -5
I had no idea even after much of my research what exactly commercial raw was ... if its cheap enough it sounds like it might be a perfect step for Baby Legs, he does not like anything soft to eat ( i have tried baby food, raw soup and dripping some water on the food and he still doesn't like it) He will eat it once it dries, after a few hours or the next morning after i moistened it the previous night.
Cici and Dids ate about .8 oz of liver so far today. I will stop for a bit to give some time for their bellies to adjust. They are currently chewing on a chicken wing but they dont seem to have at the food while it is still on the bone so i'm going to cut up the chicken in chunks and try the same with the bones.
Dids is still eating kibble. I dont think Cici has eaten any kibble since friday morning when i first put the raw food in front of her. I can easily seperate the three with (Cici/Dids) from Baby Legs if its a good idea.
I have bags in the freezer with 2 livers (about .24oz) and 3 heats (.1 oz) so just over .3 of an oz worth of that in a ton of bags ready for when they are.
We left the house for a 3 hours and took the food out of the cage to see if Baby Legs will eat soften food if he was more hungry than usual, and he is eating it. Sorry if this is confusing but this is real time and we just got back. I'm not sure how soft it was because i just dripped a bit of water on it while writing this and gave his food back to him and he start eating. I have done this before with no luck so i hope this might be a step forward for him.
Should i put less food in the dish at night with it a little wet? So Baby legs will be more prone to eat it the soup first thing in the morning? I dont want to starve him but if he is eating a little less then maybe more prone to eat the soupie in the morning.
I will make some soup soon. they are all full and sleepy now so its going to be later tonight before they get back up.
is the pumpkin and olive oil on the right track still for the switch or should i start something new for the morning? I have been doing it for about 2 months so far so they all look forward to it first thing in the morning. Is this too much? Not enough? The last thing i want is another hairball, Baby legs pooped one out a few weeks ago and we never noticed any signs before we saw the poop.
I hate to sound over dramatic but since friday evening i have already noticed Cici and Dids have more energy. Baby legs always has insane amounts of energy and it was nice to see the other two keeping up with him for once.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2011 20:28:33 GMT -5
It would be the freeze-dried raw, not the commercial raw that would be best for Baby legs, commercial raw are fresh raw but in patty form and really soft so it sounds like Baby legs wouldn't like it. freeze dried raw is raw food that's gone through a freeze drying process and you can feed it dry so it's crumbly like kibble. The Wysong Archetypal-1 is a great, same with the Stella and Chewys if you can find either (either online or at a speciality pet food store) go for it. Freeze dried raw is WAY better for them than kibble anyways. You can remove their food for 3-4 hours in order to make them build up an appetite and get them to eat. I wouldn't do it any longer than that at this point though. You will definitely have to chop up the bones at first and even smash them up a bit Thats great that they've taken to liver so quickly, I wouldn't give much more right now. It will turn their poops loose and dark so don't be alarmed. How are their poops looking by the way? Feeding the raw and the kibble at the same time can upset tummies because they digest at different rate, so we'll just have to keep an eye out How much raw meat would you say the two that are eating it are eating per day? That will give me an idea of whether or not we can remove the kibble completely for them Now for stubborn little Baby Legs, that's great that she ate some soft kibble, now slowly increase the wetness of it until you get to a point where it is soupy. What I will also have you do is remove her food for 3-4 hours before trying the raw soup. With the raw soup, scruff her and just keeping rubbing it on her gums. Don't get discouraged, it took one of the mentors, Sherry 6 weeks of doing this to get one of her guys to eat the raw soup finally. You can definitely keep up with the pumpkin and oil. What kind of oil are you using? oil can be a great bribery for getting them to try new meats 1/2 tsp pumpkin per ferret daily and 1/2 tsp oil per ferret daily is usually the maximum. You don't have to give it every day (you could do 1 tsp every other day) but during shedding season it helps to do it daily I think I answered all your questions but if not, I will post again So far you're doing great!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2011 20:31:14 GMT -5
Oh and you're not being dramatic at all, you really DO see an instant change with these guys on the raw!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2011 7:46:31 GMT -5
I cut up a few chunks of the chicken wing wing small pieces of bone in it but Cici and Dids dont seem to wanna eat those chunks at this point.
I made soup to the exact specifications and Cici/Dids licked some up. I had to scruff Baby Legs and put some in his mouth but still not luck. It is still early in the process so i'm not too disapointed yet. I'm still so surprised how well Cici and Dids are doing though.
I'm using a extra light olive oil, none of them like the smell of the extra virgin, i'm slowly trying to get them to take the extra virgin but its not working too well. I use so little, maybe 1 teaspoon for all three of them so i hope the light oil isn't going to harm them. I read the ingredients just aren't as "pure" but the light is just a lighter smell, which they seem to enjoy.
Dids poops look pretty good still even though he is eating both. Cici's poops are pretty runny a little on the green/yellow side. Baby Legs and his poops look normal but a little on the seedy side, maybe stress from the scruff feeding (he does flip out sometimes when i put the soup or little pieces of food in his mouth)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2011 8:11:19 GMT -5
I have looked into the wysong archetypal 1 before when i was looking for higher quality kibble without even realizing what it was. It is just soooo expensive!!! I got a tub of livers, about 50 hearts, two giant chicken leg quarters and a turkey neck for less than $10. I find it hard to spend $20 on 7.5 oz of food.
I forgot to ask earlier ... how much of this soup should they be eating? It filled a whole ice cube tray and is freezing. I can only get them to eat so much i'm sure but how little is too little? Should i start a schedule or just put the food/soup in front of em when they are awake to have it always available?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2011 1:27:25 GMT -5
Sorry for the delayed reply, it's been a very busy day and I'm half asleep as I write this so please let me know if I forget anything Yes, the wysong is crazy expensive. See if you can find Stella and Cheweys in your area, much cheaper I'm told (we don't have it here otherwise I'd use it) and there's one other kind I'll let you know about once I figure out the name. Never heard of light olive oil so I'm not sure what it is, what are the ingredients? You could see if you can find some fish oil (salmon oil is a favorite). Fish oil usually isn't given more than 1-2 times per week, but it's great bribery for getting them to try raw (it's the only way my girls will eat organ) so you could try that with Baby legs. Keep up with the soup with Baby legs, it will take some work for sure. One thing you can do to make the raw soup more tasty is to add in 1/2 tsp heavy cream (whipping cream) to the the next batch. I'm not sure why but this makes it tastier to them. They are lactose intolerant so we don't want to add too much, but it might help her get a taste for it. How is baby legs doing with the moistened kibble? It sounds like the poops aren't too bad. The green poops sounds like a stress thing but trying giving more pumpkin and sprinkling some crushed egg shell on the meat to get some calcium into them and see if the poop improves. Seedy poop is undigested food and could be stress related. Try giving some pumpkin and see if that helps. Also there's a product called Bach's rescue remedy - it can be put on their ears and in the water and it reduces stress. There's a pet version if you can find it. If you think Baby legs is super stressed, this might be something to consider trying During the raw switch definitely feed them as much as they will eat, there should be just a little food left over after each feeding, that's how you know theyre getting enough. 2 times per day is usually good, but I'm going to get you to feed 3-4 times per day during the switch. If that works for you As for the bone, chicken wings were never a huge hit with my ferrets either, not sure why. Can you get a Cornish hen or a small whole chicken? If you can, you can cut it up and give them the rib cage bones (cut up and smashed a little), they might be able to handle those bones better. Let me know if you have any questions, but for now just keep at it
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2011 13:48:07 GMT -5
The stella chewys are dog food disks right? I found em but i just wanted to make sure they are the same.
The light olive oil is just olive oil but less pure olives, if that makes sense, from what i have been reading. Its light because the smell and taste is lowered so it can be used for cooking and not take flavor away from the food. it has something to do with the way its made at high temps or something. Salmon oil sounds like a plan but i'm still working on the extra virgin oil but if i get too sick of trying it i will surely get some salmon oil. I really only use the olive oil and pumpkin for hairball stuff. They will eat straight pumpkin if i give them that. Should i just give em pumpkin? I heard olive oil and pumpkin were good so i dumb down "serving sizes" because i use both.
Baby legs let me put some raw soup on his nose and he didn't freak out today, so maybe he is moving forward. He is always smelling the soup but never tries it. Its still early so my patience is not wearing too thin with him yet. To be honest i'm prolly more focused on making sure Cici and Dids are eating it and enough of it at this moment. Because Baby Legs is so stubborn i might wait him out until i can get the other two full on with the raw. It might help so i can totally focus on him when the time comes.
Dids chewed on his first bone today, chewed the crap out of it, and it was a big piece he just sat and chewed on. It was kinda funny cause he was holding it with his paw and i never see them use their paws like that before. Cici ate her first bones this morning and this afternoon.
Baby legs is eating the softened kibble as far as i know.
I think i'm going to separate Baby Legs from Cici/Dids ... i dont know if its regressive that Dids has kibble available so he isn't as hungry as Cici. When i let her out this morning she ran for the plastic tub where i feed the raw food but Dids kinda could care less it seemed. He eats but just isn't as enthusiastic as Cici. The downside is that Baby Legs and Cici (who are about the same age) are really starting to bond and i'm not sure if this would be more stressful for Baby Legs to remove his cagemate.
Haha i'm reading over what i'm writing and it all sounds like i'm just rambling!!!
I'm looking at the remedy while typing this. Which one is ok for ferrets? They do like to lick each others ears so if they do is it safe? He doesn't seem tooo stressed only when i scruff him and put the soupie in his mouth he flips out a bit but like i said earlier in this reply. He didn't flip out totally this afternoon so i might wait out the remedy. It would be nice to know for future reference which is ok. There is a dog and a cat one.
I hope i covered everything.
Dont worry about the reply speed. I don't expect you to be on the computer hitting the refresh button waiting on me : P ... This whole process is going sooooooooooooooooooo much smoother than i expected with Cici and Dids going right for the food. At this point i just want those two to be ok with what i'm feeding them and if they are getting everything they need during the switch. Baby Legs is getting soft kibble and a dab of raw soup about 3-4 times a day and whenever he converts he converts. I have time and am fairly patient so if it takes a while it takes a while, just as long as they are getting what they need during the process.
Thanks again for everything! I hope you feel better!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2011 17:11:37 GMT -5
The stella chewys are dog food disks right? I found em but i just wanted to make sure they are the same. You betcha! Here's their website: www.stellaandchewys.com/index.phpThey have dog food and they now make cat food ones too that have slightly less veggies/fruits in them (we want to avoid the sugars in veggies and fruits since this is what can lead to insulinoma) but I know a lot of people still feed the dog food ones and they are WAY better than kibble. "Duck Duck Goose" (dog one) seems to be the most popular one from what I've heard. Just make sure you're getting the FreezeDried Discs and not the frozen raw ones because I doubt Baby legs would eat those at this point. AFS or Animal Food Services is the other freeze-dried type I didn't know the name of. Here's their website: www.animalfood.com/ But Stella and Cheweys seems to be a favorite so go with that if you can find it You can feed them dry (more similar to kibble) or rehydrated with water - just make sure you provide fresh water when feeding them dry (I feed it dry personally because if I ever go away and need a sitter, it will be easier for the sitter to feed it dry). The light olive oil is just olive oil but less pure olives, if that makes sense, from what i have been reading. Its light because the smell and taste is lowered so it can be used for cooking and not take flavor away from the food. it has something to do with the way its made at high temps or something. Salmon oil sounds like a plan but i'm still working on the extra virgin oil but if i get too sick of trying it i will surely get some salmon oil. I really only use the olive oil and pumpkin for hairball stuff. They will eat straight pumpkin if i give them that. Should i just give em pumpkin? I heard olive oil and pumpkin were good so i dumb down "serving sizes" because i use both. Ohhhkay, I think I get it (I googled it too ). I don't *think* that it's bad for them, I asked the other mentors just to get their opinions and will let you know. You can probably offer a tiny bit more than you are currently offering though. Especially for Baby legs as bribary. Just put a few drops of oil on the soup and then try get her to eat it and see if that makes a difference Straight pumpkin is actually a really important part of their diet, not only for hairball stuff but it's also takes the place of "fur and feathers". When a ferret eats whole prey the fur/feathers of the prey wraps around the meat and bones and helps it to pass through their digestive tract more easily. Pumpkin also does this and when you are feeding meats without fur and feathers, it's always a good idea to include pumpkin. Pumpkin and oil play different roles (the oil lubes up their tubes to help hairballs pass through and makes their coat shiney) so you can definitely give 1/2-1 tsp pumpkin per ferret per day. I actually feed the pumpkin WITH every meal (to total up to about 1/2-1 tsp per day) and that way the food goes through their digestive tract WITH the pumpkin and it can play its part better than giving the pumpkin by itself. If that makes sense? ;D Baby legs let me put some raw soup on his nose and he didn't freak out today, so maybe he is moving forward. He is always smelling the soup but never tries it. Its still early so my patience is not wearing too thin with him yet. To be honest i'm prolly more focused on making sure Cici and Dids are eating it and enough of it at this moment. Because Baby Legs is so stubborn i might wait him out until i can get the other two full on with the raw. It might help so i can totally focus on him when the time comes. That's a really great step forward! I'm actually going to recommened you keep it up with baby legs instead of stopping and waiting until the other two are switched. If it seems like it's too much for you to handle how about this: -Keep feeding Baby legs the moistened kibble, slowly increasing the water amount each day until he is eating a mushy kibble mix. -Take away the kibble for 3-4 hours once a day -Offer the raw soup after the 3-4 hours (putting it on his nose, lips,etc.) Even if you're only doing it once per day, it will really help as opposed to waiting because honestly it could take a good few months, and it's better not to wait, the younger these guys are, the easier it is and the longer he keeps eating kibble the more stubborn he's going to be. That being said, if you do get the Stella and Cheweys and he eats that - definitely just feed him the freeze-dried raw and then keep attemptig the soup once a day. Does that sound manageable to you? Dids chewed on his first bone today, chewed the crap out of it, and it was a big piece he just sat and chewed on. It was kinda funny cause he was holding it with his paw and i never see them use their paws like that before. Cici ate her first bones this morning and this afternoon. That's a FANTASTIC step forward! Don't be alarmed if you see little pieces of bone in the stool, this is normal and totally safe Just to give you an idea, this is what we're going to be aiming for, for their ultimate weekly diet: 75% muscle meat (including at least one meal of hearts) 10% edible bone 10% organs (1/2 of which should be liver and 1/2 of which should be kidney and other organs - spleen, pancreas, whatever you can find) 5% roughage (this is the pumpkin) So that means if you feed 2 meals per day for 7 days (with ferrets we balance their diet by WEEK) that: -8-9of those meals should be BONE-IN meals (meaning the meal is mostly edible bone with some meat), 3-4 of -3-4 of those meals should be muslce meat (at least one of which NEEDS to be heart) -1 meal should be organs (2 oz. of liver and 2 oz. of other organ) Not to overwhelm you yet, I just wanted to give you an idea of where we are heading So what have Dids and Cici eaten so far (meats, bones, etc.)? If you could give me a list that would be great I think i'm going to separate Baby Legs from Cici/Dids ... i dont know if its regressive that Dids has kibble available so he isn't as hungry as Cici. When i let her out this morning she ran for the plastic tub where i feed the raw food but Dids kinda could care less it seemed. He eats but just isn't as enthusiastic as Cici. The downside is that Baby Legs and Cici (who are about the same age) are really starting to bond and i'm not sure if this would be more stressful for Baby Legs to remove his cagemate. This would be your judgement call, you know them best. It WOULD definitely benefit Dids to not have the kibble anymore, as long as he is eating enough raw (ie. as long as he isnt refusing meat and will eat what you put in front of him). That being said, we don't want to stress Bay Legs out too much either.... however this is where the rescue remedy could really come in handy. Plus it wouldn't be a bad thing for Cici and Dids to also bond more (with three ferrets, it's always best if they all are bonded to one another, so if something happens to one of them, the two remaining have eachother) Haha i'm reading over what i'm writing and it all sounds like i'm just rambling!!! Nope not rambling at all! ;D It actually makes it easier for me that you type so much, because I like to type A LOT and I find I have to usually type less so I don't overwhelm people ;D So as long as I'm not typing too much for you, you definitely aren't typing too much for me! I'm looking at the remedy while typing this. Which one is ok for ferrets? They do like to lick each others ears so if they do is it safe? He doesn't seem tooo stressed only when i scruff him and put the soupie in his mouth he flips out a bit but like i said earlier in this reply. He didn't flip out totally this afternoon so i might wait out the remedy. It would be nice to know for future reference which is ok. There is a dog and a cat one. Either the Pet one or The Kid one (exact same ingredients in both : are probably the best for ferrets because they are alcohol-free. That being said, if you can't find them (A health food/organic store is the best place to look) the adult version (with alcohol) is fine to use. Sherry has always used that one and it's the one I have now too because we just can't get the other ones around here Although I did notice some of them said they had "grape alcohol" - which I avoided because grapes are toxic to all animals, and then some just said "alcohol" so I got the one with the normal alcohol to be on the safe side. Perfectly safe if they lick each other's ears because you can also add a few drops in the water. You can't overdose on it either and the dosing for ferrets is basically a few drops (in the water or rubbed into the ears or both) as needed. So start with maybe one-two times a day but if you DO separate them and Baby Legs is freaking out - feel free to give it to him as many times per day as it seems like he needs it (i.e. when he is freaking out from missing his buddies). Also if you do separate them, make sure you still let them have A LOT of out of cage playtime together and that they are only really separated when they HAVE to be (i.e. if you cage your ferrets at night or when you arent there or to eat). I hope i covered everything. You sure did Dont worry about the reply speed. I don't expect you to be on the computer hitting the refresh button waiting on me : P ... This whole process is going sooooooooooooooooooo much smoother than i expected with Cici and Dids going right for the food. At this point i just want those two to be ok with what i'm feeding them and if they are getting everything they need during the switch. Baby Legs is getting soft kibble and a dab of raw soup about 3-4 times a day and whenever he converts he converts. I have time and am fairly patient so if it takes a while it takes a while, just as long as they are getting what they need during the process. Thanks again for everything! I hope you feel better! I am glad you are feeling that it's going so smoothly! It can be a little stressful at first for sure, especially when you have hold outs. Like I said above if you are feeling overwhelmed having Dids and Cici moving at a different pace than Baby Legs, even if you just offer baby legs the raw soup once a day, it's better than waiting Let me know if you have anymore questions and jif you could please type me up a list of what Dids and Cici have eaten SO FAR that would be fantastic - because I'm thinking it's time to get you to try another protein (besides chicken), but I just want to get a better idea of where we are first Oh and thank you I am feeling a lot better lately so *fingers crossed* it keeps up so I can handle going back to university in a few weeks. Thankfully i'm only gonna take 3 classes so my body can rest and I can keep up mentoring
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2011 18:34:25 GMT -5
I like the idea of using pumpkin in every meal, sounds like a great place to start because sometimes the poops is very orange. I'm not alarmed by the fact but it does seem to be gone all at once and like you said its nice to be in the system at all times. Definitely going to do this. That is exactly how i'm going to handle Baby Legs for the time being. I'm just not going to try and push it on him but just keep moving forward slow and steady. Its very nice to know that i can set up a weekly regiment for them and not have to worry about day to day values. Especially since i bagged 3 hearts and two-three livers in about 20 freezers bags already . I need to start lookin for a few other organs now. I'm going to continue to let Cici and Dids eat on the soup since they haven't started eating straight bone with a consistency yet. As long as the 1/2 teaspoon eggshell is enough to supplement what little bone intake they have at the moment. I do put chicken chunks in front of them with smaller bones and knuckles hidden in them so they get a taste while eating the meat and skin. I will use turkey next once the chicken wing is a bit more polished off. Cici has eaten a little more than Dids but they have both eaten. -Chicken meat chunks from thighs and legs. -- Friday/Sunday -Turkey neck meat ( no bones from that yet).-- Saturday -Chicken liver (1 between the two) -- Sunday -for the last two days they have both been eating off one pretty good sized chicken wing i believe its weighed around 2.7oz. and raw soupie. Almost all the bones are gone from the chicken wing except the one last big one. --Monday/Today -The soup (made from your recipe - 2.2oz of 1 liver and 2 hearts, a whole chicken leg quarter (thigh/leg) at around 7.3 oz, and 1/2 teaspoon eggshell) -Tonight i hope for them to finish off the chicken wing, two ice cubes of soup. Then maybe a heart with some pumpkin first thing in the morning. - To be honest i dont even know if Dids has eaten any kibble in the last two days. I'm still on the fence about separating them but one week is coming up soon and since things are going better than expected i feel ahead of the situation. It feels like taking it slow with Bably Legs, doing exactly as you explain which just so happens is exactly what we been doin. Atleast this way i know he is getting "what he needs" according to the kibble bag. At this point i just wanna make sure the other two are doing alright. I will feed Baby Legs soft kibble for weeks until i get these two full on the raw diet if that is what it takes for me to be able to change focus on the stubborn baby boy. Thanks again!
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