Grimsqueaker's Switching Thread/Sherry

[Sherry]

At least you know what the problem was with the poopies ;D
Just keep mixing them in. Make sure they are really tiny, and mix it in well. This is where the persistence on your part comes in! You can also try doing a "scruff and stuff" as well ;D Scruff them, and when they yawn, pop a meat bit into their open mouths.

[Deleted]

Evening!

I tried a chicken wing this evening and they chewed the skin a bit and gnawed on the thin end of the wing then seemed to get bored with it. How do I keep their interest in it so they eat the whole thing?

Do you attach them to the side of the cage? What do you use to do this?

[Sherry]

Do you have metal shower hooks? That's what I use. Here are a couple of good ideas as well:
holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=questions&action=display&thread=128
The reason they got bored quickly is because ferrets are very lazy eaters given half a chance ;D Keep at them with the wing, and make sure they are hungry enough to really go at it. For example- I'd leave the wing in with them overnight, without the kibble, just to see how much of it is left in the morning.

[Deleted]

I've just ordered some metal shower hooks for the moment I'll just have to put up with them smearing the chicken all over the cage!

I'm still a bit unsure of what portions of meat/organ/bone/pumpkin I should be given. How much pumpkin/squash should they have a week. Are there any other supplements that I need to give them? I have a uk version of ferretone which has omega3 and fishoils in it and also malt paste which contains taurine among other vitamins.

If I list all the meats I plan on giving them can you advise if there are other things I should be adding as I don't want to cause them to have any vitamin deficiencies.

Chicken/bone mince
chicken wings
chunks of beef
chicken liver
beef kidney (if they'll eat it)
ground rabbit meat
turkey
butternut squash

These are the things that are easy to get hold of. I could also get lamb's livers and hearts if chicken livers aren't enough for organs.
I would hopefully be able to lessen the mince and ground meat once I'm confident they will eat larger chunks of meat.

What does your typical weekly menu look like?

[Sherry]

I see what you mean Basic rule of thumb is a minimum of 3 different proteins. You presently have 4(which is good). The more variety you can offer, the better. For organs, no more than approx. a two ounce portion(average size of a chicken liver) weekly. Same goes for other organs. So, max 4 oz in total on a weekly basis.
At least one meal of heart a week, unless feeding either whole prey/commercial raw pretty much daily.
My typical menu changes on a regular basis ;D Depends on what I find on sale!
Basic is as follows:

Mon- heart
Tues- bone in
Wed- muscle meat
Thurs- whole prey
Fri- muscle meat
Sat- bone in/soupies
Sun-- whole prey

I also give commercial raw(meat/bone/organ) every morning- The above is what they get in the evenings. The only reason I give commercial raw now is I have a couple of very lazy eaters. They'll eat around most bones . I don't give organ meat separately anymore, simply because it's already in both the commercial, and the whole prey.
Now, a breakdown of the above menu:
Bone includes, but is not limited to: Chicken wings, necks, backs. Turkey necks, ribs, wing tips. Duck necks, ribs, wing tips. Some tails, like pork, lamb. Any whole prey(mice, rats, rabbit, quail, guinea pigs, hamsters, gerbils, to name a few) is bone in. Basically any consumable bone.
Muscle meats are just that- any meat without bone or organ. This includes heart.
Organ is liver, kidney, spleen, brain, thymus, lung(there are more, but can remember them right now ;D ).
My menu will include whichever of the above I find on sale. Except whole prey- it NEVER goes on sale .
Did I cover what you needed to know with that novel
Oh! Pumpkin/squash I give 1/2 tsp per ferret in their commercial. It replaces things like fur from whole prey. You can give it to them straight up if you like(if they'll take it). Not a big deal if you don't give it daily. Just whenever you can, but particularly during shedding season. It will help push all that fur through.

[Deleted]

Hi there!

I now have some of those shower curtain hooks. They're very handy! I hooked a chicken wing into the cage. Everytime Miya went near it she would immediately start rolling around on her back and she would attack anyone else that went near it. She even went to bite me and she's the sweetest little thing normally!

Do you know what the rolling could be about? Is she just overly excited about it and rolling around in glee?

[Sherry]

Excitement, frustration? Who knows ;D I can't even begin to imagine them doing that over kibbles Food aggression is a fairly common behaviour, and it does settle down after a while.
Anyway- they'll get used to it and adapt. And she might just wind up being your alpha. They tend to eat first anyway.
Check out the video in this link(it's in the first post):
holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=meat&action=display&thread=80
That's fairly normal behaviour ;D

[Deleted]

I'm still having problems getting them to actually eat the chicken wing. If I cut the meat off for them they love it but they just can't be bothered to do it themselves. I haven't given them any kibble so far today I've just left the wing hooked to their cage and hoping they will get hungry enough to eat it. I feel so bad though because they keep looking at me asking where their dinner is!

I found a website which sells raw meat which looks quite good.

www.barfpetfoods.co.uk/cat-food.html

I might get some of the poultry ragout which is chicken heart and gullet. Do these count towards the organs? If not it could still make up their meal of heart a week

[Sherry]

While the stomach is definitely an organ, heart is a muscle meat. But having both would be great!
With the wing, try sectioning it right now. Then cut the middle section between the bones so you've got two, and try to cut the drumette along the bone to expose the marrow. It's possible they are simply intimidated by the size right now.

[Deleted]

Good evening!

I tried cutting up a chicken wing into sections but still no luck with them, they seemed more interested in stashing it. I'm going to try some slivers of real chicken breast meat mixed in with their commercial raw. I think once they notice that the wing is made up of the same tasty meat they might start putting some effort into it. I really want them to start eating bone as Hurley has some tartar build up on his back teeth.

Ok, so here's my plan so far. I don't want to cut kibble out completely as I do forget to thaw meat out but I want to get them on a grain-free one with low carbohydrates. In the UK you can't get grain-free ferret food so I've found what I think is a good cat food but just wondered what you think to it. The kibble is just in their cage for them to nibble at while i'm at work so wouldn't form the main part of their diet.

www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/dry_cat_food/orijen/45156 the only thing that slightly worries me is the fruit but compared to Evo ferret food it looks pretty much the same and there's a lot of meat in it. When I'm a lot more comfortable with the raw and I know they'll eat it with no problems I might remove the kibble altogether but for now I just want something grain free that won't contribute to insulinoma.

Eventually I plan to do what you do and feed commercial raw in the mornings and meat chunks in the evenings. When it comes to organs, I'm pretty squeamish and don't think I could handle a liver or a heart so their organ quota would probably just come from the commercial raw or one of those whole minced rabbits from that website your friend Bev suggested.

I also had a few more questions for you
1) If I wasn't feeding them enough organ/bone or was feeding them too much, are there any signs ie stools/coat quality etc.
2) When you look for a kibble you are meant to look for high protein and around 20% fat. Do I need to buy quite fatty cuts of meat? Also, their commercial raw which is just chicken and bone says it's only 14% protein, is this enough?

Sorry for the long email xxx

[Sherry]

If you are going to leave some kibble nibblies, just watch to make sure it's not upsetting their tummies from mixing the two While most ferrets don't seem to be bothered by it, others get upset tummies, or bacterial overloads. That results in yellowish, foamy, really smelly stools. Frequently needs antibiotics to get rid of it. You'd likely notice something off though, before that.
And yes, Orijen is a reasonably decent kibble. But yes- continue to feed a good portion of fat to them. Ferrets need to have about 30% fat, since that's where they get their energy from. And the analysis for protein levels is based on dry matter. The commercial raw is wet. If you were to do a similar conversion for the raw, it would be higher by far
As for not enough organ, the signs/symptoms of a deficiency wouldn't show up for a while, but those would be more internal, although I'm sure it would show up in the coat as well. Too much organ, their stools are sloppy, too much bone, their stools are dry. Not enough bone, coat and nails will become brittle(lack of calcium) before any other deficiencies would show up.

[Deleted]

What would you suggest is a good source of fat to feed them?

[Sherry]

Chicken skin, fatty cuts of meat. Even when you trim fat from your own meat before fixing your supper, put it aside for them

[Deleted]

Time for a trip to the butchers then. The supermarket doesn't really sell a lot of fatty cuts.

Just gave them a bowl of that heart/stomach mix and they seem to love it

That website also sells minced gizzards. Are they organs?

[Sherry]

No, unfortunately gizzards are muscle meats. Think of organs as something that secretes. Something an old friend told me that made me remember was "if it doesn't secrete- it's meat" ;D