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Post by trippyferret on Jul 1, 2011 16:14:49 GMT -5
We're still alive over here. Just been kept busy with summer school. But anywho, I tried the ground beef with Gwen and it didn't go well. I covered it in salmon oil and she would take a couple licks, then decide the beef tastes nasty so she doesn't want anymore. Then I tried scruff and stuff but that didn't help. She was still not having it. I may have to take it slower with her. Maybe gradually mix more and more into some soup? That's all I could really think to do... but maybe she just really doesn't care for beef, since she eats any other meat now! I dunno! lol.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2011 17:02:32 GMT -5
I totally understand. Thankfully, I'm finishing up the last of my classes and it's basically an independent research project at this point, so I get to set my own hours (well, honestly that's good AND bad, with me :\ ). It's completely possible that she just doesn't like it. Not all ferrets like all meats, so it's really up to you how much you want to push it (you might also find that she's DEAD SET against it now, but later on she eats it willingly. Ferts go through phases, too. For example Sian usually LOVES pork, yet right now she's sure she hates it, so *shrugs* I'm sure in a few weeks if I offer it again she'll eat it up). But if you want to try, putting it in soup and gradually upping the amount is *probably* the best (read: sneakiest) way to do it
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Post by trippyferret on Jul 8, 2011 20:11:04 GMT -5
I've got some concerns I've been meaning to bring up. Maybe I'm just being super paranoid, as I've felt that way a lot with the ferrets since Salem passed(I keep thinking something else bad is going to happen). But all my girls look skinny to me. I remember when they had their spring coats last year, and they seemed to have more chunk than this. They were on kibble back then, but I dunno... and then I notice that Bomber's getting what looks like rat tail. Maybe he just pulled some of his hair out on something. I'm not sure. It's not hugely noticable, but I can tell the hair is thinner around the tip. And then Gwen seems to have more loose hairs than usual too. She isn't balding or losing huge amounts, just when I go through it around 5ish hairs come out. And I don't know, they don't seem as active as they were on kibble either... But like I said, I could just be over-paranoid about losing another ferret. I hope this all doesn't look like gibber-jabberish to you. I've been so stressed and depressed... I'm worried they might be deficient in something. I'm going to post a few pics of Gwen and Evie. Then maybe you can tell me if they look thin or not.
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Post by trippyferret on Jul 8, 2011 20:29:39 GMT -5
Gwen: Evie: I feel like their coats should look better than this too... Oh and here's what our staple menu looks like right now: Sun livers or kidneys chicken wings Mon CGH chicken hearts Tues chicken breast bone-in beef chunks Wed CGH Chicken gizzards Thurs chicken wings pork rib tips Fri chicken backs pork chunks Sat chicken backs chicken wings or bone-in breast Though last week I picked up some rabbit and I've been substituting it for the rib tips because they haven't been caring for it lately.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2011 22:35:13 GMT -5
It's not nonsense. I went through the same thing with Pixie after Yew died, and I'm still just way more paranoid with her than anyone else, so I get where you're coming from, and I understand.
From what I see, your girls are perfectly fine, weight-wise, so no worries there. But you can increase the amount of food given and see if they eat it up. If they do, that means they need a bit more at meal time. If not, then you're on track.
The listlessness could be stress. Your guys have went through a lot. All of Bomber's owies, Salem's illness and her passing ... your guys are a business. They feel all of that, and they know you and that you've been grieving. If they are all eating, peeing and pooing like normal, I'd give them time to adjust to everything.
Coats (from the pic) look a little coarse. I'd suggest trying some more fattier meats (I know duck and goose and salmon are extremely fatty, and my guys gobble it up) and olive oil/salmon oil, and seeing if that helps any. The only thing on the menu I see is that generally we like to see two meals of heart (for taurine). I know they can be tricky to find, so have you thought about/do you give them, taurine supplements? If not, that might be a good idea, and if it's something you WANT to do and haven't done before, I can get dosage info for you.
As for the tail - do you see any blackish/brownish build up? If so, I'd get an acne cleanser and wash the tip in it (black heads). If not, it could just be the shed (not every fert sheds at the same time or in sync with the real season, depending on a LOT of environmental factors). But if they're excessively itchy, have thin-looking irritated dry skin, or are behaving abnormally, I'd suggest getting them in for a look-see.
For shed issues, I use Avixx parrot spray. It doesn't strip oils, but it helps soothe the skin and I've noticed better coats with it.
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Post by trippyferret on Jul 9, 2011 8:33:46 GMT -5
Thanks for understanding, Annie, I just can't stop worrying something else is going to go wrong. The other day Bomber was throwing up from eating too much liver too fast, and that freaked me out because that was the last thing Salem did before she passed. I just want things to be ok for a while. Well, typically there is a bit of food left when I give them their next meal. So I don't think that they're not getting enough. Maybe they just aren't getting enough fat. I have been supplementing with salmon and olive oil. But what about pork sides? I know my butcher has those for pretty cheap. Maybe I could give them some of those cut up on a regular basis. Maybe it would put back on a little chunk too. I was supplementing with taurine but I'll admit I've been a little lax on it lately. I will start giving it more often. Mainly because hearts are such a pain in the butt. I make sure they get them once every week though! Let me know about that dosage info though, it's been a while and I don't really remember. I have the 500 mg tablets. The ferrets losing hair this time of year kinda freaks me out. I've never had it happen with them before. Well, other than Salem, who had never quite lost her winter coat this year. I suspect she probably had adrenal too, and it was just lurking. They get natural lighting and their sheds have usually been mostly on schedule. However with Gwen, I do see some new guard hairs coming in, so I'm thinking that's a good thing. I'm not ready to worry about a new problem yet. lol! With Bomber's tail, it doesn't really look bad. He just has a thinning at the tip of his tail, and I did see a couple black heads, but not a lot. So basically, we'll put some more fat and taurine in the diet, and hopefully we should see some good results. I hate to think I might be depriving them of anything. I just really could use some peace right now and not have to worry so much.
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Post by trippyferret on Jul 9, 2011 8:38:20 GMT -5
Oh and I have this coat conditioner from the vet I used to use for Daemeon. Wonder if I could use it on them. It's called DermaPet. It's all natural, but it does have Baytril added for fungus, and I'm not sure if that would cause any problems.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2011 10:48:52 GMT -5
Pork sides would be a great addition, I think, and I'll get the info for the taurine, as well.
You can also check sheds by looking at your sables' stomaches. If you see bluish/black "bruising", that means they're still shedding, and that could be some of the coat issue.
As for the DermaPet, what was it being used for, for Daemon? I'd be leary, seeing as how it's an antibiotic and we don't want to introduce that for no reason (wouldn't help black heads, really). I'd stick with acne wash or witch hazel.
Overall, I don't think your guys are lacking anything. Raw diets are great, but they aren't a cure all and ferts will sometimes still see rough patches (plus, this could be part of the detox. Yes, your guys have been great with progress and on the raw for a bit now, but the build up of toxins can take a while to completely leave their little bodies, on top of everything else).
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Post by trippyferret on Jul 9, 2011 16:42:28 GMT -5
Daemeon had something funky going on with his feet, and the vet thought it might be a fungus, so I had to spray his feet with the Dermapet with Baytril. Here's a link to it: www.amazon.com/DermaPet-Malacetic-Spray-Conditioner-8oz/dp/B000O5K0JWIf there's no danger in using it, I was thinking of using it like you use Avixx parrot spray and just spray it on their coats. Wasn't planning on using it for black heads, I've got an apricot scrub I can use on his tail. So Monday I will pick up some pork sides. I was thinking that I could cut it up and mix it into some soup with some taurine. That way, they can get the added fat and the taurine at the same time. I've got a whole tray full of soup cubes left from Salem... I guess I may as well use them. How long does it typically take a ferret to detox? Because if you think about it, we started switching in January I believe. That's around 6 months! I look at all these pictures of people who's ferrets were switched to raw and their coats are beautiful and silky. My guys have nice coats too, but they don't seem to be as silky looking. Plus I'm used to ferrets having at least a little bit of a chunk factor. lol. Well, we'll try this out and see how it goes. Because honestly, I feel like their coats were their best when they were on kibble. :/ All of this craziness, and I never did tell you that Penny ate rabbit for the first time this week. That's one small ray of sunshine, at least.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2011 17:14:49 GMT -5
I've heard of some detoxing running up to a year, so it does differ. As far as my experience, my guys usually have beautiful coats, but shedding and just for some reasons they go off and they'll get ... less than pretty. It always rights itself in a few weeks. There's things we can control (diet, lighting, socializing) that factor into their health (and how their health is displayed), but there are times when those things don't solve the problem, either. It doesn't mean you're messing them up, or that they're lacking something you could give them. I do think that in a few weeks, when things begin to calm down, and with a little push from you (fatty foods, etc) they'll be okay, and you can begin to relax. I can ask another mentor about the DermaPet. Right now all I can say is that I'm unsure with the baytril added (might not be harmful, really, to have it when they don't need it, but it may just be unnecessary). The avixx has a mild analgesic, but it doesn't have any antibiotic in it. Other than that, you could dip the tips of your fingers into olive oil, rub a few times and then massage it into their coats, too. It's a cheaper way to get a softer coat in, and in small amounts it won't go rancid, either, and won't (of course) strip oils. I've done it before, with no ill effects after Also YAY PEN! rabbit's delicious
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2011 17:20:30 GMT -5
Also, for the taurine: one 500 mg tablet crushed into powder and mixed in with soup (or other treat everyone likes) for all four ferts, daily <==dose recommended. ETA: And! I forgot about this too - you *can* give your guys lard. I know some ferrents who do. It's a cheap and usually accessible way of getting some fat into their diets
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Post by trippyferret on Jul 11, 2011 22:37:45 GMT -5
Alright, I have started the taurine regimen back up, which they are enjoying very much. They love their soupies. Tomorrow I will see about getting the lard or pork sides. Do you know about how much lard I should give them? I have realized I have been overreacting a little about them lately. They're not as bad as I thought, I just get scared something else is going to happen. That's just the way these past two months have gone with these guys. Losing Salem was so unexpected, I just want to make sure no one else has something amiss and I don't notice it. Ya know? Plus the vet bills piled high the past two months with Bomber's two surgeries, his emergency visit, and Salem's cremation fees. Oh and an $80 vet visit to get ear mite meds and toothpaste... Thank god I had the money in savings. These guys cost me an arm and a leg, but d*mn if they aren't worth it! lol.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2011 23:44:13 GMT -5
For the lard, I'd start at about 1/2 tsp per fert and see what that does. We don't want upset tummies I sympathize - these guys CAN get expensive (and they seem to time it so that emergencies occur back to back, ugh), but you're right - they're worth it, every single time. And don't worry about it, you've had to go through a lot, so give yourself some time and enjoy your babies, they're amazing little carpetsharks!
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Post by trippyferret on Jul 14, 2011 18:19:29 GMT -5
I've been doing the lard in the soupies for three days now and I am already seeing good results! I can tell the girls are chunking up, and their coats are looking better too! There is still some hair loss, which I am chalking up to stress. The only one who doesn't seem to be having any problems is Penny, and I think that's just because she didn't know Salem for as long as the other three. The rat tail isn't improving yet on any of them, but I read somewhere that the hair might not come back until they have their fall shed. Since they have been stressed, I am trying to interact with them more and let them out to play in the house more too. They seem to be enjoying it. I don't know if it is the lard that's helping because they seem to be doing so much better so quickly. But I know I can see a difference in them, for sure.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2011 23:39:15 GMT -5
You're right - hair regrowth can be tricky, and it usually does take a new shed to see a difference. It might not be the lard, it might just be them adjusting and coping with the changes. Either way, it's so great to hear they're doing better!
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