|
Post by katt on Jun 15, 2011 0:30:25 GMT -5
Okay, so as promised here is the thread on Ulu knives. holisticferret.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=talking&thread=6734&page=1As for storing the meat. This will be easier to do once we get a working menu going. To graduate the Mentoring program, you have to submit a menu that demonstrates you can provide a properly balanced diet, with enough variety. As soon as your 3 start eating whole bones we will be working on a menu and getting more variety in the meanwhile of course. What I do is I go out and buy a balanced diet for about $40. For example, I might get a whole duck (organs and heart included), whole rabbit (organs and heart included), pork meat, pork liver, pork kidney, pork heart, turkey necks, turkey gizzards, chicken hearts, Cornish game hen, commercial ground meat (includes bone, heart, and organs) and whole rodents. (This is just an example shopping list, I then also pick things up from the store here and there, or I might get less or more than this depending on what I already have, etc). I then chop ALL of these up and portion them into sandwich sized ziplock bags. I use masking or Painter's tape and a permanent marker to label the bags with exactly what I put in there. To make things easier, I have a system for abbreviation. For example, I use H,L,G for Heart, Liver, Gizzards, CGH for Cornish Game Hen, etc. So I might label a bag Pork HL, Turkey G. For pork heart liver turkey gizzard. You will come up with a system that works for you for labeling. Anyways, I fill the bags up with about 1-2 days' worth of food. Then I cram it all into my freezer. I typically buy enough and in proportions that I know, no matter what order I feed in in the next 1-2 months, they will have an overall balanced diet. BUT I still try to feed balanced week to week too of course. I then can take the food out the night before and put it in the fridge to thaw (warning, you might want to use a bowl or tupperware dish as the bags sometimes leak). It stays good for quite some time in the fridge, so if it lasts more than a day or two, no big deal. I then portion out parts of the bag for breakfast, then dump the rest into their dish for dinner, etc. OR other days I thaw it out in warm water and feed it that way. OR I also feed it frozen. Just run the bag under water for a few seconds (to unstick the plastic) and toss it in. Doubles as a toy and food! ;D It is good to offer them food presented in a variety of ways. Ground, whole, soup, bones, chunks...warm, room temp, cold, frozen. It keeps things different and interesting. (Think of if your food was always the same texture and temperature... ). The food lasts a long time this way, and you only have to really prepare food once every few months (depending on how much you buy at once, I usually get 2 months worth or so, but we just moved and the fridge is smaller so that will be a new adventure...). It also keeps the food good indefinitely and is very convenient all around. By labeling, you know exactly what you are feeding each day still, so you can continue to track foods (for example Koda has IBD and will react to certain foods so I like to keep track of what he is eating and how his poops look) and you can know that they are getting X amount of bone, organ, meat each week based off of what baggies you pull out for the day.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2011 15:25:37 GMT -5
Hey Katt want to know something? You're a genius! ;D ;D Those are great ideas for pre-preparing and freezing, I've always been looking for ways to make my life easier and these ideas will definitely help. And I can't wait to read about those Ulu knives, exciting! Ferret update: They have been off ground now and I barely put any water on their meals either, they are learning so quickly and I don't think they even know I have been trying to mix up their meals so they are always getting something different but so far their favorite is beef and chicken mixed. Wolfie crashed last night (you may have heard), it lasted a while but it wasn't a big one like the previous time. When we last visited the vet to get his BG checked (about three weeks ago), he said that he was doing great and could actually be taken down to two times a day on his medicine if I wanted. So, I started doing that, and at first he was doing fine, but before his crash his signs seemed to be so faint that I could barely notice if he had low BG or not, either way I am mad at myself and the vet. I'm mad at the vet because I think he should have said something like "Oh, he is doing good, I think keeping him on his regular dosage will be good for him, there is no need to change anything." Well, even if he was doing good on it he still shouldn't have lowered it (in my opinion), Insulinoma only gets worse, so, why short him when things will only get worse? And I'm mad at myself because I should have trusted my gut and kept him on three times a day... Ugh, I'm sorry, I'm just so tired and stressed right now.
|
|
|
Post by katt on Jun 16, 2011 18:38:47 GMT -5
haha When you have a schedule like mine, you learn to be very efficient. I am glad my method can be of some use to you. As for adding water to the meat. It may or may not make the meat go bad a little sooner, I don't really know. But other than that, I see no real harm in continuing to add a little water. Most ferrets in captivity don't get enough hydration (esp on kibble diets, and with water bottles instead of bowls) so the more hydrated they are the better! When you can (I know you have a lot going on right now with Wolfie), get a hold of some chicken wings and smash the bones up really well with a hammer. You might have to Scruff N Stuff with little pieces of bone marrow and meat a few times to help them get the idea at first. Let me know how they do with pulverized bone-meat and then we will go from there. I am so glad Wolfie seems to be stabilizing. I can't believe your vet told you to feed him less! If anything, I would say feed him a little more often, not less often! Hopefully now that he is back to 3x a day he will do better. I would be extra sure to leave some meat in the cage overnight too, and feed him right before/after bedtime if you are not doing that already. With the midday snack he is covered for the day, but then nighttime is a long time span... Keep me updated! I hope he keeps doing well. *hugs* I know how scary and stressful ferrenting can be, you do a great job so just keep it up.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 11:25:32 GMT -5
Sounds good, I haven't been putting any water in it and they'll still eat it right up, so, I think they will be okay if I don't soften it anymore. Also, does tripe count as an organ meat and can they eat it? And I'll make sure to get those chicken wings, I can't wait to start feeding them bone. I also possibly changed my mind on how far I want to get them on their diet. I think I will just feed them raw with no whole prey. What do you think?
|
|
|
Post by katt on Jun 17, 2011 12:57:25 GMT -5
Also, does tripe count as an organ meat and can they eat it? I really am not all that familiar with tripe to be honest. I have never fed it, and always have been warned that it stinks to high heavens, and they typically (though not always) will not eat it. BUT if you can get them to eat it, it is supposed to be really good for them. I do know that you want unbleached green tripe, the really nasty stuff - not the white kind as it has had all of the good nutrients bleached out of it. An organ is (in ferret-diet terms anyways) classified as any hormone-producing glands/tissues. So for example the kidneys and live produce all kinds of hormones, so they are classified as organ meat, where the heart is not really a hormone gland, but rather a large muscle, so it is a muscle meat. Tripe is I *think* a muscle meat technically, but I will look into it for you. And I'll make sure to get those chicken wings, I can't wait to start feeding them bone.Let me know how it goes! This is the last really big step. After they are munching on bones all we have left is to make sure they are getting the proper balance and variety! I also possibly changed my mind on how far I want to get them on their diet. I think I will just feed them raw with no whole prey. What do you think?That is fine. You can always add whole prey in later if you change your mind again. Many people feed strictly franken-prey. As long as they are getting the right proportions of meat:bone:organ (which they will be ) then they are fine. My only recommendation would be to offer pumpkin with meals at least a few times a week to replace the fur. Of course this will be tough with little Wolfie - I am not sure if there is an easy way to offer it to only the girls 2-3 times a week? Also, I am looking into lettuce. You might be able to use frozen, blended iceberg lettuce instead. Just to add a little fiber. [freezing it breaks it down even more vs just blending it, and iceberg lettuce is very low in anything lol so I think it would be ok. But I am asking so don't take my word for it yet.]
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2011 10:54:36 GMT -5
Green unbleached tripe... Wow, I didn't think it could get any worse. I think I'll take my chances with something else. I'll head up to the store today and pick some up, things have quieted down for the weekend, so I can actually get some other things done. Wow, I have never heard of lettuce being fed to them, very interesting, I am learning so much. Maybe I'll just go back with my old plan. I bet it doesn't even matter right now, after they are consistently eating bone, that is when I should decide, more or less. Little update: I have stopped adding water to their meals and they eat it wonderfully. I think they are really getting the hang of it. Wolfie seems to be doing much better. He is back on his three time a day meds and he is almost back to normal.
|
|
|
Post by katt on Jun 18, 2011 11:27:48 GMT -5
Green unbleached tripe... Wow, I didn't think it could get any worse. I think I'll take my chances with something else.My thoughts exactly. ;D I found out though it is an organ meat, and it is thought to be a completely balanced meal! It is supposedly pretty high in calcium (though there was some conflicting stuff on that one). I'll head up to the store today and pick some up, things have quieted down for the weekend, so I can actually get some other things done.No worries! Just let me know when you can do it and how it goes. Wow, I have never heard of lettuce being fed to them, very interesting, I am learning so much. Maybe I'll just go back with my old plan. I bet it doesn't even matter right now, after they are consistently eating bone, that is when I should decide, more or less. Almost any vegetable matter can be used as roughage, it is just what has the lower sugar content and higher fiber. I asked and lettuce should be okay for Wolfie. Just blend it and freeze it. Heather said one or the other should be fine, but personally I would blend it up, then freeze it in ice cubes or mix it with meats and freeze it. BTW: I forgot to add. When I prepare meats, I put pumpkin in every meat bag and mush it around (careful of bones they poke holes in the bag) and often put supplements in there ahead of time too (though this can degrade some things). This way, the pumpkin does not go bad before I can use it, and I don't forget to use it either. And again, less daily prep time. SO, you could do this with lettuce. Blend up some iceberg lettuce and put a tsp or so into each meat bag when you are preparing and stocking up. Then freeze it all together! As for deciding about whole prey - that is entirely up to you. The lettuce and bone will work fine, but whole prey is always good. Like I said before, you can change your mind tomorrow, or years down the road. They can always be introduced later - just make a thread and ask for help if you need it! Whatever way you decide, your fuzz will be on a good raw diet regardless. Little update: I have stopped adding water to their meals and they eat it wonderfully. I think they are really getting the hang of it. Wolfie seems to be doing much better. He is back on his three time a day meds and he is almost back to normal.Oh good! I am so glad to hear that! Hopefully he stays stable for a while yet! What a terrible disease. And so scary! *hugs*
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2011 20:44:13 GMT -5
Almost any vegetable matter can be used as roughage, it is just what has the lower sugar content and higher fiber. I asked and lettuce should be okay for Wolfie. Just blend it and freeze it. Heather said one or the other should be fine, but personally I would blend it up, then freeze it in ice cubes or mix it with meats and freeze it. BTW: I forgot to add. When I prepare meats, I put pumpkin in every meat bag and mush it around (careful of bones they poke holes in the bag) and often put supplements in there ahead of time too (though this can degrade some things). This way, the pumpkin does not go bad before I can use it, and I don't forget to use it either. And again, less daily prep time. SO, you could do this with lettuce. Blend up some iceberg lettuce and put a tsp or so into each meat bag when you are preparing and stocking up. Then freeze it all together!I researched a little and iceberg lettuce has a little sugar in it. I just can't get myself to feed Wolfie any sugar at all, he seems to be getting more sensitive if he doesn't have his medicine and I just don't want to take the risk. Where would they get the roughage from whole prey? Oh good! I am so glad to hear that! Hopefully he stays stable for a while yet! What a terrible disease. And so scary! *hugs*I really appreciate it, it means a lot right now
|
|
|
Post by katt on Jun 19, 2011 23:31:53 GMT -5
Ok that is fine. It was just the lowest-sugar option I could find, and Heather and Sherry said it should be safe. Normally they would get roughage from the fur and stomach contents of whole prey. As long as they are getting enough bone (when they start eating bone) that their poops are pretty stable, then it should be fine. I would recommend giving the girls 1/2 to 1 tsp of canned pumpkin, or squash baby food 1-3 times a week. It can be a taste treat for them, so that it is easy to keep Wolfie from eating it. Have you found some chicken wings yet?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 10:40:33 GMT -5
Maybe in the future when I see that Wolfie hasn't been seizing as often then I might put some in, I just feel like it still too soon :/ Although, we do own a pet rabbit, what if we brushed him out and put the fur in the ferrets food, would that be okay? Haha, what a weird question And yes! I finally have some, I had to buy a whole chicken though, I guess my town doesn't carry only chicken wings, they have everything else except that! I'll start pulverizing them soon.
|
|
|
Post by katt on Jun 20, 2011 18:20:20 GMT -5
Maybe in the future when I see that Wolfie hasn't been seizing as often then I might put some in, I just feel like it still too soon :/ Although, we do own a pet rabbit, what if we brushed him out and put the fur in the ferrets food, would that be okay? Haha, what a weird question And yes! I finally have some, I had to buy a whole chicken though, I guess my town doesn't carry only chicken wings, they have everything else except that! I'll start pulverizing them soon. How weird! lol Well all of the bones will be tasty, and they will have food for a while. Cut it up into bits and freeze it, and then offer them some pulverized bones. Then thaw out a portion and you can pulverize it (or not) depending on how they are doing. Because if you pulverize the entire thing, and then after 2 meals they are ready for whole bones...you will have no whole bones left! ;D As long as you are not bathing the rabbit before brushing it or anything like that (or better yet, if you DO bathe it with just plain water) I really don't see how that could be an issue. It would certainly help get them used to the idea of fur if you ever decide later to do whole prey. lol
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2011 0:32:32 GMT -5
It is really weird, I don't get it at all Okay, phew, luckily I only mashed up a couple. I gave them some and it ended up becoming all gone! They never even seemed to question it, yay! Alright, sounds good, I'll see how this goes. Wolfie is doing better, he is actually playing with Nala and Stella again, which is a big relief. The only thing is is that he hasn't been gaining any weight, he is the lightest out of all of them. When I watch him eat he mainly just picks up the smallest pieces he can find and then he will be done. The thing is, there aren't many small pieces left. Should I possibly make him a special meal in the midday which will be smaller cuts and then in the morning and evening he will just have to deal with the bigger chunks? Have any ideas?
|
|
|
Post by katt on Jun 22, 2011 2:03:17 GMT -5
It is really weird, I don't get it at all Okay, phew, luckily I only mashed up a couple. I gave them some and it ended up becoming all gone! They never even seemed to question it, yay!Perfect! Mash it up less and less each time then! Wolfie is doing better, he is actually playing with Nala and Stella again, which is a big relief. The only thing is is that he hasn't been gaining any weight, he is the lightest out of all of them. When I watch him eat he mainly just picks up the smallest pieces he can find and then he will be done. The thing is, there aren't many small pieces left. Should I possibly make him a special meal in the midday which will be smaller cuts and then in the morning and evening he will just have to deal with the bigger chunks? Have any ideas?It sounds like he is a little behind the girls... Try hand feeding him medium sized pieces, and gradually moving him up by hand. Some ferrets just need a little TLC. Also, try pouring soupies over the meat and see if that helps. There are things we can try for weight gain if you are worried he is too thin. Some ferrets are naturally more sleek than others though so keep that in mind too.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2011 21:07:04 GMT -5
Sounds good, I'll make sure to do so
|
|
|
Post by katt on Jun 22, 2011 23:07:50 GMT -5
Let me know how it goes. And keep me updated on Wolfie's weight...
|
|