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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2011 22:29:47 GMT -5
If the food being switched to causes huge digestive upset , then go back to the baseline food (lamb = best poops so far)
If the stool just worsens but does not really bad, you may want to try cutting back the amount of the new food in the mix. What you want to avoid is prolonged inflammation. The longer the inflammation, the harder it is to quiesce.
That being said, a **small** amount of reishi may help with inflammation sine Boris has definite trouble with specific meats. Add this when you are not changing other things in the diet.
-jennifer
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Post by Sherry on Jun 22, 2011 23:50:00 GMT -5
All right, sounds good. And his stools have been really good now the venison is back to 30%.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2011 7:16:53 GMT -5
Cool! It's WONDERFUL that Boris has improved to the point where you can see patterns associated with input/output. When things are all "effed up", EVERYTHING = bad poop! AT that point, you cannot learn what Boris needs.
Another thing you need to know about IBD is that hormone changes (especially Spring) can result in a bit of stress/ but any flares should not be horrible. The hormone-related stress/shedding may mean that the best food should be fed during the times of the year if poop quality worsens. When you see such fluctuations, it does not mean that the food in question is necessary "off the menu". (i.e., there may be seasonal fluctuation regardless of what is being fed.
-jennifer
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Post by Sherry on Jun 23, 2011 11:14:15 GMT -5
So by that, you mean his diet *may* not need to be as restricted as it is right now? Because so far, basically any/all bone in meats are off the menu. As well as his favourite, beef.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2011 21:49:59 GMT -5
exactly. Some foods may be completely off limits in any quantity all the time. Some food may be tolerated in small amounts mixed with other meats when things are going really well. Some foods may be tolerated as entire meals for short periods of times when no problems are flaring up. Basically, during a bad flare-up , nothing is tolerated, but that doesn't mean the ferret can never eat again.
You'll eventually learn what works best for Boris. And there will be times when things are outta control in spite of what you do. Small frequent meals seem to work best, and rotating in new foods in smaller quantities *USUALLY* works best.
-jennifer
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Post by Sherry on Jun 25, 2011 23:56:30 GMT -5
Thanks Jennifer I think I'm getting a handle on this. We've found that no way can he go over 30% venision, no matter how slow the addition. So I started slowly rotating the venison out, and rotating in some mince pork, tiny amount. His poops were so so. Not as good as I've seen, but not as bad as they have been. Since his stool was starting to get a bit loose, I tried a pinch of reishi. Little brat refused to eat almost anything. Only got about a tbsp into him. So, I'm going to put him back on the straight lamb with the enzymes, and try rotating a bit of pork in that way, see what happens. I've also discovered his stools are much better when the enzyme is put in about 12 hours prior, rather than 30 minutes to an hour before(as in I forgot to fix it the night before ). Slowly getting there
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2011 20:29:35 GMT -5
Cool! You see what I mean by trial and error. I can recommend some "tools", but you ultimately will be figuring out how to manage the IBD. I concluded that mixing enzymes in the night before (or morning before) works best too. The enzymes really need to get mixed in that food and sit there to pre-digest the food. If the reishi is "over-the-edge" for Boris, there are some other things we can try on him. For now, enzymes and simple eating are good things. I should make a list of things that seem to help IBD for at least some ferrets. A summary of the "tool box" might be good to sticky. The "How to" varies so much with each little beast that comes along! Glad things are going much better -jennifer
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Post by Sherry on Jun 26, 2011 22:24:01 GMT -5
Touch wood, I'm hoping we can now keep him under control for the most part. Now that I know lamb is his "safe" food, I can always retreat back to that if necessary. His vet was talking about the fact he may need to be on a low dose of pediapred every other day, depending on how he does. If he does, he does. We'll take each day as it comes! Only problem, if you can call it that, is getting him to take a meal in the middle of the day, in addition to the morning/evening feedings. Frankly, right now he's still not taking enough for my liking(maybe an ounce and a half a day), but I'm not going to push him too much.
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Post by Sherry on Jul 4, 2011 9:59:35 GMT -5
Ok, question. How long can he eat just lamb, or lamb with a bit of venison? So far the only things I haven't tried mixing in are goat, mice, and rabbit. The pet store I frequent hasn't had the NV rabbit lately, but should be getting it in later. With the goat, I'm waiting a while til he's been on straight lamb for about a month. To be honest, I'm not even sure about the mice, although I'll try them after the month on lamb. It seems almost every other meat, even in small proportions, gives him funky stools. And that's WITH the pancreatic enzymes. On the lamb alone, they are good. And it's getting harder to get him to eat the lamb, since he knows the others are getting other stuff
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2011 22:04:51 GMT -5
Since Boris has been on lamb/mostly lamb for about a month now, I would not expect that keeping him on mostly lamb for even a longer period of time will result in additional healing.
My approach would be to rotate in some other meat slowly (and yes, the poops will not be as good, go back to lamb, and then a different meat altogether, go back to lamb, and so on. Even if the amount of the new meat is only 30-50% mixed with lamb, Boris will be getting variety. Remember, some animals eat all the same food all their lives. The key is to go back to "all lamb" in between the rotations of other meat types. A little hydrolyzed white fish will help.
Another thing to consider is freeze-dried raw forms of the meats that seem to cause trouble. Processing foods even lightly can make a big difference.
Is Boris getting only the pancreatic enzymes as a "supplement" right now? If so, there are some other supplements that may help.
-jennifer
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Post by Sherry on Jul 5, 2011 22:15:21 GMT -5
He geta a pinch of the enzymes in every medallion of lamb, if that's what you mean. And when I say "funky poops" I mean grayish/tan really loose stools, poor lad. It also seems any amount of pork gives him watery stools as well I've also started adding the enzymes to the meat his cage mates get, just in case I miss any when I put him back into the cage. On a positive note, he's gained more weight again. Another 60 grams Vet is happy with his progress to date. He'll also be staying on .5ml of pred a day for a while.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2011 1:20:52 GMT -5
Just want to say yay for the weight gain! You're doing an awesome job with your little man Just curious, did anything major happen with Boris? Blockage, surgery? Seems like GI issues are tied with incidents like that. When did his IBD start? Any reason?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2011 7:54:49 GMT -5
Ok, I'm doing some investigation regarding the following...
1. NV freeze-dried...I tried a small bag a while back, and it did NOT have the pumpkin seed problem. They may have changed this. I will buy several more bags to check this out. This may be a way to add a little variety - even if it's only small amounts.
2. single source diets - I belong to a local (Colorado) raw group - all dogs - not much info other than where to get raw meats/organs locally. However, there's some info regarding food allergies/limiting meat sources. Many of the owners go to holistic vets, I I may be able to get some info. on this. Only natural Pet store also has special days where holistic vets are available so you can bring your pets and get mini consultations for free. I've gotten some really good info. from these sessions. I also see my holistic vet very occasionally (so far, nothing goes wrong with my ferrets other than the adrenal thing). If you do feed single source, you'll definitely want to add vitamins/nutritional supplements.
3. Other supplements that may help with IBD. Again, the holistic vets will come in handy here.
You'll want to try work out a routine that adds at least a little variety - even if it's just small amounts to help with the psychological factor. Ferrets do like variety.
-jennifer
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Post by Sherry on Jul 6, 2011 17:47:33 GMT -5
No way to access it here. The store that had it just happened to get a couple bags in about 3 years ago, and haven't been able to get any in since. If I'm going freeze dried, may as well do Stella and Chewy's, unless NV has different varieties? I've also picked up some ground goat to try in his meals for tommorow, see how it goes. And absolutely NO holistic vets here who are willing to see ferrets I've tried. Again- another positive note! I gave his cagemates(Vincent and Lucrezia some CGH today, with the supplements on it, but partially frozen(he won't touch semi frozen food, spoiled brat he is!). He had a bit after it thawed, meaning the enzymes were on it for a good 3-4 hours. Poops weren't nearly as bad as I was expecting!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2011 10:01:06 GMT -5
I'm behind but the"big brat" (husband ;D ) will be out of town next week. I've obtained some interesting info from the holistic vet.....will be gathering up the info and posting soon.
-jennifer
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