IBD suggestions needed

[Sherry]

Boris' IBD is still WAY out of control. He's had metro(twice), amoxicillan(once). We were starting to make a bit of progress prior to Sinnead's passing, but not a bit since.
Background and problems:

I got reishi mushrooms, probiotics, pancreatic enzymes for him in Feb. He wouldn't eat with a full dose on his food, so I started trying to slowly phase all of them in. We'd gotten to about 1/2 dose, and were working with the food phasing in and out. Found his trigger at that time was chicken.
We were still having some problems, since trying to get him to eat commercial raw involved hand feeding, and he was pretty resistant to many grinds. Hence the first round of metro. It seemed to get it basically under control, then a week later, we had to help Sinnead to cross the bridge. I got a preventative round of metro, knowing he'd have a major flare up.
Got 3 days worth of metro in him without TOO much trouble, Sinnead passed, and it was becoming a major fight, with him whimpering, so we stopped the metro because of the stress. He quit eating entirely, so tried hand feeding, which he fought. Reduced to syringe feeding, which he fought even harder. We made the decision to let him go be with his friend, because fighting to keep him alive was causing far more distress than it was solving. Vincent is the one who pulled him through.
Anyway. He reached a point where he simply no longer trusted me, and basically still refuses to take anything I try to feed him by hand. He still will not eat the grind on his own, nor for Cliff. He also refuses ANY supplements now, including his probiotics. Refuses yogurt. Refuses pumpkin. Rescue Remedy doesn't make a bit of difference with this.
Turkey is now also causing him problems. He's sleeping a LOT. We are going in to the vet's for pred next week if I can't see any progress, because he STILL has diarrhea, and foul smelling stools.
He WILL eat goat, mice, beef, pork, and sometimes lamb. Refuses liver or other organs. Refuses cod liver oil.
I honestly have no idea where to go from here. I do realize I can give eggshell for calcium since he likely won't get enough from the mice alone, but not sure how long it will hold him, nor what I can give as a replacement.

[Deleted]

I don't really have any ferret-health advice as I'm so new to them but I just wanted to say I'm so sorry for your struggles and I hope that Boris pulls through.

I have had some experience with IBD in cats, we did have a very regular IBD cat patient at the clinic I work at (unfortunately she had to be put down because it was so out of control) but I do know that when it got really bad, the only thing that worked was the cat coming into the vet clinic for IV fluids/antibiotics/appetite stimulants.

I'm wondering if a few days in-hospital on IV fluids (IV medication too - that way the meds get IN him for sure) might help? The only concern would be if he would eat in hospital, which I'm not sure if he would

Even Sub-Q fluids may help? I don't know how much they would help though but sometimes just getting their whole systems flushed out makes them feel a little less icky?

I wish I had more experience / advice for you

From personal experience with IBS / extreme gastrointestinal sensitivities - I know that when everything you eat makes you sick and cramping and diarrhea/constipation alternating, sometimes you just don't want to eat and literally want to crawl into a hole and die. I just wish there was some way you could explain it to him you know?

I will pray for you both, hang in there the both of you

[Sherry]

He's been to the vet several times, and Dr. Kimura says he's not dehydrated. And his scruff doesn't stand up on a "pinch" test. That in spite of the diarrhea. The meds he needs are oral ones, so I don't *think* an IV would help much. At least she's never suggested it.
I'd also be really worried about him eating in hospital, too. He'll not even take his freeze dried anymore(at least not the kinds I've tried so far). And he can't have the kibble- doesn't even recognize it anymore. Besides the fact it's all chicken or turkey
But thanks, carpetsharks

[Deleted]

No worries, I hope you and Dr. Kimura can come up with a treatment plan for him

Hopefully someone else has some better advice too.

Hang in there

[Heather]

Go back to basics....right back. KISS.....what does he want, does he tolerate it reasonably. The big killer is the dehydration, he's not there so that's good. Can you get hold of some carnivore care? Yes, it's gross but you mix it with his goat or something. Is he eating ground or is this all chunked? I remember one of your little ones refusing to eat anything that was ground, is it Boris? You can go up to 6 months without serious issues and feeding only baby food so feeding what you're feeding is still better. Can you get your hands on calcium powder (reptile powder) or cuttle bone (you know the stuff you feed caged birds). You can sprinkle that on the meat....no flavour....nothing weird. He's tired of weird. Can you put CLO on his food and still get him to eat his food? How do you normally give his CLO, my guys lick it from a dropper, you may have to syringe it (my guys know what comes in a syringe and some will take it Yuri hates it and fights me all the way but he gets it anyway).
Get back to me
ciao

[Deleted]

Yeah, I'd feed him what he wants. Help him stop associating food with stress. I'll be praying for him and you

[Deleted]

Have you tried slippery elm? If I remember correctly, it also helps with nausea. I don't think it can be used long term though, but I'm not sure about that

I have also heard good things about emu oil for IBD. It's a really good anti-inflammatory and natural pain killer. My guys love the taste of it, too.

[miamiferret2]

I agree just give him what he wants to eat. Is he Adrenal? How old is he? I suffered with an old ferret that had those chronic IBD symptoms for almost 2 years. he was Adrenal of course... We tried every antibiotic known to man. The only one that worked was chloramphenicol. As soon as we stopped the chloramphenicol, it would start up again. He would improve slightly then get worse. The vets thought he had intestinal lymphoma. Towards the end he would poop frank blood. The chloramphenicol took care of that too. Try the slippery elm bark.

[Sherry]

He's the one who won't touch ground if he can get away with it I'll have to check around to see if I can find it. Thought I'd seen it at the vet's, but double checked, and it's for herbivores. Will look around to see.
And yes, I can get either the calcium powder or the cuttle bone. And my brain obviously isn't working right now- CLO? ;D
I finally got him to eat a bit of beef last night with just a touch of probio's, eggshell, and a bit of pumpkin. Figured I might as well try it with one of his favourite meats. There wasn't much on it, but enough to help somewhat it seems.
His poops were better- still really jelly, but close to the right colour, not as foul, and not liquid.

May 19, 2011 0:47:46 GMT -5 @ferretdroogies said:

Have you tried slippery elm?

Yup. Won't touch it.

May 19, 2011 7:03:15 GMT -5 miamiferret2 said:

Is he Adrenal? How old is he?

He's 3 years old, and the vet says no.

[joclyn]

get him on the prednisolone and also add in the carafate. that stuff really does do wonders.

i'd also get him on lupron. just because he's not presenting any of the usual signs does not mean he isn't adrenal.

in fact, the newest thinking/findings, per dr wagner at pitts., is that they're ALL adrenal as soon as they've been fixed - it just takes years for symptoms to manifest.

have you tried rabbit and buffalo? what about ostrich?

[Heather]

Sorry, CLO = cod liver oil.
No the carnivore care is specifically for cats actually. It's ok for ferret too, just better than plain baby food. I used to mix a tbsp full with Aremis' baby food. Unfortunately, it's disgustingly expensive up here and you have to get it from the vet
Sounds like progress to me. It's such a rollercoaster ride with these little ones and the IBD stuff. You measure your successes by the hour instead of day Adrenal is always a possibility, Ghenghis wasn't adrenal...that was one thing he didn't have. Can't say the same for the cancers though
Good luck
ciao

[Sherry]

He's been refusing. His rabbit, and I can only get bison and ostrich in ground- which he won't eat. Right now, we're trying to avoid the need for pred if possible. Although when we go in next Thursday, he will likely be on it. I'll talk to the vet about lupron again at that time

[Deleted]

Will he eat soupies?

[Heather]

If he doesn't like ground there's no point in forcing the issue, it will only stress him more. Poor wee lad. Is he eating whole meats at all? You can get the powder into him even on that. Is there any type of soupy he likes?
ciao

[katt]

I agree with the others. At a certain point you have to weight stress vs nutrition. Perhaps if you feed him what he wants for a while and you could get his stress level down. Because stress can aggravate IBD so much that is really important.

And I know you don't want to do pred (no one does) but to me it sounds like you really should. You have tried everything else and it isn't working, now you are getting to the point where last ditch options are better than no options. I am sorry that you guys are going through this. I hope you can figure out something to help him.