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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2011 0:11:22 GMT -5
Good news all around! -Both girls immediately took to the raw chicken soup (raw chicken breast cutlets + water + pumpkin + olive oil + a sprinkle of bone meal) so I froze some ice cubes of it -I also covered their hearts in the raw chicken soup as a gravy for tonight and they've already stashed them away so it looks like they're good with the raw soup being on their food too -I made up a batch of raw organ soup (purreed turkey liver, pork liver, pork kidney and pork spleen + pumpkin + olive oil + sprinkle of bone meal + heavy whipping cream) and Sophie lapped it right up but Olivia wouldn't eat it, so I froze some ice cubes for Sophie -I added some chicken breast cutlets to the organ soup and offered it again to both Sophie and Olivia and they both lapped it up (both off my fingers and off a plate) so I froze some ice cubes and put the rest in the fridge So I'd say that's a pretty big success for tonight I am going to offer the organ/chicken soup that I put in the fridge tomorrow morning as a meal and see if they'll eat enough of the soup (either off a dish or in ice cube form) to "count" as an organ meal. But I do have a few questions: 1) How do I tell if they are getting enough of the organ soup to count as an organ meal for the week? It is watered down, plus there's the chicken breast in there so it's hard to tell 2) I did pick up some cod liver oil, do you think it's safe to give them each the 1/4 cc per week EVEN IF they are still getting some organ in soup form? Like do you think it's better for them to get the cod liver oil until they are getting enough organ for sure? I just wanna make sure that they can't overdose on whatever it is they need from organs that is in the cod liver oil and the organs. PS I think they're just being super good girls and eating whatever I offer them because they know we have you as our mentor again and they wanna impress you ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2011 22:53:37 GMT -5
And of course they wanted nothing to do with the organ soup this morning Apparently last night was a fluke. Sigh Sophie did eat some of the organ soup ice cubes, but Olivia wouldn't touch those either so I think I'll just continue on the slow route mixing the chicken raw soup on their food every night and then SLOWLY working the organs in over time. I am going to give them the cod liver oil tomorrow night (once their poop isnt dark from the the hearts anymore so I'll know if the cod liver oil is working), and will do that once a week until they'll actually eat organs. I was wondering though, once i do have them eating the raw organ soup more consistently, can I feed them a couple of ice cubes every morning so that they're getting the organ spread out over the week instead of just one meal? (I figure that way it probably equals the amount they'd get in whole organ in one meal).
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Post by katt on Jul 5, 2011 15:51:35 GMT -5
-Both girls immediately took to the raw chicken soup (raw chicken breast cutlets + water + pumpkin + olive oil + a sprinkle of bone meal) so I froze some ice cubes of it Good! Keep feeding it to them. Let's see if we can get them on a (temporary) all-soupie diet for a few days. Then start adding in the teenist bit of organ. One thing you can do is start with a base-batch of chicken soup, then using just a little bit of that batch, add a tiny bit of organ each day. That way you don't have to totally remake the soup every day, an you can customize the amount of organs in the soup every day, versus being stuck on one "amount" of organ meat while you use up the old soupies. If that makes sense. Or you can just make new batches when you run out. Whatever works really. Just brainstorming a few ideas if you want them. -I also covered their hearts in the raw chicken soup as a gravy for tonight and they've already stashed them away so it looks like they're good with the raw soup being on their food tooGood! I'd continue adding the soup to their food. -I made up a batch of raw organ soup (purreed turkey liver, pork liver, pork kidney and pork spleen + pumpkin + olive oil + sprinkle of bone meal + heavy whipping cream) and Sophie lapped it right up but Olivia wouldn't eat it, so I froze some ice cubes for Sophie
Hey, even if she stopped (as per your next post) it is still a good start! -I added some chicken breast cutlets to the organ soup and offered it again to both Sophie and Olivia and they both lapped it up (both off my fingers and off a plate) so I froze some ice cubes and put the rest in the fridgeYay! 1) How do I tell if they are getting enough of the organ soup to count as an organ meal for the week? It is watered down, plus there's the chicken breast in there so it's hard to tellThis is tough to say without knowing what you are mixing in. What you can do is get an estimate of how much food they eat daily. Get a little gram scale (these are good to have on hand for weighing the ferts anyways) and weigh their food before putting it in for a meal, then weight the leftovers (the difference is obviously, the weight they ate). Do this for every meal (so the food doesn't have as much time to dry out and lose water weight, and to know all intake amounts) for a few days to a week. Then, once you have a feel for how much they eat on average per day, figure out how much they eat per week (or per day if you prefer to add organs daily) and take 10% of that. Then when you prepare a week's worth of organ soup, add in about 10% in grams of organ meat. Once you have done this a few times, and figured out all of the math (I hate math! ) then you will start to get a feel for how much organ per soup batch per amount of soup they eat each week roughly = 10%. That would be the precise way to do it. The less precise way, would be to just feel it out. They need 10% organ meat. You have a feel for how much they eat in a day/week. You will start to get a feel in time of how many organ-soup ice cubes they will eat, and how much of the soup is organ meat (i.e. 10%, then 30%, then 50% as we increase it...). I'm not sure how helpful that is. But did I make any sense? 2) I did pick up some cod liver oil, do you think it's safe to give them each the 1/4 cc per week EVEN IF they are still getting some organ in soup form? Like do you think it's better for them to get the cod liver oil until they are getting enough organ for sure? I just wanna make sure that they can't overdose on whatever it is they need from organs that is in the cod liver oil and the organs.
Considering the suggested dose is 1/2 cc, I think 1/4 cc would be fine while they are in the process of relearning how to eat organs. Maybe try 1/4 cc every other week. As they start to eat more organs, decrease it. Or, if you think they are eating enough organ in the meanwhile hold off. See how they do. You know them, and their health. Most ferrets are fine on an imbalanced diet for a few weeks to months without any ill effects. I just figured better safe than sorry with the health history of your 2 girls. What do you think? PS I think they're just being super good girls and eating whatever I offer them because they know we have you as our mentor again and they wanna impress you Must be! They know better than to misbehave when Katt's around! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by katt on Jul 5, 2011 16:11:22 GMT -5
And of course they wanted nothing to do with the organ soup this morning Apparently last night was a fluke. Sigh
HA! Fooled you mom! ;D Sophie did eat some of the organ soup ice cubes, but Olivia wouldn't touch those either so I think I'll just continue on the slow route mixing the chicken raw soup on their food every night and then SLOWLY working the organs in over time. I am going to give them the cod liver oil tomorrow night (once their poop isnt dark from the the hearts anymore so I'll know if the cod liver oil is working), and will do that once a week until they'll actually eat organs.Sounds like a plan! Keep me updated! Also, don't be discouraged if they get to organ soupies but don't go much further. Some ferrets just prefer organs in soup form, and that's okay as long as they are getting the organs. I was wondering though, once i do have them eating the raw organ soup more consistently, can I feed them a couple of ice cubes every morning so that they're getting the organ spread out over the week instead of just one meal? (I figure that way it probably equals the amount they'd get in whole organ in one meal). Absolutely! I used to do that with Koda, but I have slowly, sadly come to realize that with 2 ferrets this is much harder to do as you can't always be 100% sure of who is eating what. For example, Koda might be eating ALL of the livers while Kenai snubs it, and I would never know. If you can be sure that they are both eating the organ, and they are still getting the right proportions, then you are good to go! I personally prefer feeding that way.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2011 17:47:13 GMT -5
Thanks Katt! Sorry it's taken me so long to reply to this! It's definitely been a not-so-great few weeks for me health wise so it's been hard to stay on top of things. Thanks for all of the great suggestions. I think the girls are at a point where they do definitely like the raw chicken soup, so that's good. I haven't tried adding organ again, but I'm going to give it another go on the weekend when I actually have the time/energy to blend up some more soup. I really like the idea of making a big batch of the chicken base and then adding the organs in. My only issue is I'm having a really hard time with storing it. What I've been doing is freezing it into ice cubes, but I find that the soup is so thick that when I try to de-frost it I never get the nice thick liquid back that I originally froze, and it's been really hard to pour over the girls food / mix with organs once it's been frozen and defrosted. Is there a better way to freeze it? Do I need more water maybe? (Of course the girls only like the soup if it's really thick and not too watery : . Unfortunately, I'm gonna have to hold off on the temporary soup diet plan for a few weeks. I'm working non-stop (my work just doesn't seem to grasp the idea that is probably going to kill my body, but I really can't afford to get fired so alas ) and the ferrets will be alone for a good 9 hours at a time, and in this heat, I don't think the raw soupies will last them that whole time, even in ice cube form to start off. So I think I'd feel safer feeding whole meats (partially frozen) while I"m working the long hours for the next few weeks. I will keep trying to get them to eat organ soupies on the organ days (I think you're right, I'm going to have to stick to just one day a week because I'll never know who's eating what either ) and I'll keep giving the cod liver oil once a week in the mean time and hopefully we won't run into any health issues. *fingers crossed* Thanks again!
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Post by katt on Jul 8, 2011 19:47:15 GMT -5
I completely thought I replied to this already! ;D Sorry! Sorry it's taken me so long to reply to this! It's definitely been a not-so-great few weeks for me health wise so it's been hard to stay on top of things.Hey no worries! I understand and I know you will always be back with updates! Thanks for all of the great suggestions. I think the girls are at a point where they do definitely like the raw chicken soup, so that's good. I haven't tried adding organ again, but I'm going to give it another go on the weekend when I actually have the time/energy to blend up some more soup.Let me know how it goes. Start with just a teeeny bit and let them lick if off of your finger. If they still take it eagerly, add just a teeny bit more. Let them eat that a few times and start to slowly increase the organ content. I really like the idea of making a big batch of the chicken base and then adding the organs in. My only issue is I'm having a really hard time with storing it. What I've been doing is freezing it into ice cubes, but I find that the soup is so thick that when I try to de-frost it I never get the nice thick liquid back that I originally froze, and it's been really hard to pour over the girls food / mix with organs once it's been frozen and defrosted. Is there a better way to freeze it? Do I need more water maybe? (Of course the girls only like the soup if it's really thick and not too watery :.Hmmm...... when it thaws is it more liquidy? Less? *thins* ....You could try putting it into ziplock containers and thawing the whole container so you have a littlre more to work with and mix back up perhaps? Or even keeping some in your fridge in a container - it will keep several days in the fridge if it is in a sealed container... Unfortunately, I'm gonna have to hold off on the temporary soup diet plan for a few weeks. I'm working non-stop (my work just doesn't seem to grasp the idea that is probably going to kill my body, but I really can't afford to get fired so alas ) and the ferrets will be alone for a good 9 hours at a time, and in this heat, I don't think the raw soupies will last them that whole time, even in ice cube form to start off. So I think I'd feel safer feeding whole meats (partially frozen) while I"m working the long hours for the next few weeks. Hey, if you don't take care of yourself, you can't take care of them. Sad truth, but an important fact. Just do what you can. I will keep trying to get them to eat organ soupies on the organ days (I think you're right, I'm going to have to stick to just one day a week because I'll never know who's eating what either ) and I'll keep giving the cod liver oil once a week in the mean time and hopefully we won't run into any health issues. *fingers crossed**crosses fingers also* I am confident you 3 will be fine. In time we will knock some sense into those silly little noggins of theirs and things will become much easier for you!
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Post by katt on Jul 11, 2011 4:44:47 GMT -5
Just checking in.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2011 12:42:57 GMT -5
I'm still here I promise ;D So my ferrets are crazy I took out a bunch of organs and more chicken breast and was planning on making up some more soup this weekend, but I kept running out of time and it got to the point where I didn't want the organs to sit any longer in the fridge. So Sunday night I was just like screw it, I'm giving them the organs and if they eat them they eat them and if they don't they can go hungry for a few hours. Sure enough they ate ALL of them. Turkey liver, pork liver, pork kidney and even pork spleen (which I swore they were never going to touch, the way they turned their noses up at it). Well I don't know if it was just a fluke or what? I did cover the organs in salmon oil... so that maybe have been the secret trick Who knows? I'm just very thankful and sincerely hoping it's not a fluke and they eat their organs again this week. While I have your mentoring expertise here though, I had 2 other quick questions. First - I've been feeding them their morning meal quite late the past few weeks. I give them their night time meal around midnight (my sleep schedule is really messed up right now) and then the idea was to give them their morning meal around 12 noon, but I'm finding that when I let them out in the morning they just want to play for hours and don't want to eat right away, so I haven't been giving them their morning meal until around 2-3pm, at which point they actually eat it, instead of just stashing them. Now the food I'm giving them at night is usually partially frozen so it stays good until 12 noon the next day (and they eat it right up until around then when I let them out) so it's not like they're going for hours without food. Does this sound okay? Or should I really aim to be putting fresh food in every 12 hours? Second - The girls have decided commerical ground raw is just not their thing and I really can't spend the money on it if they don't even like it, so I was thinking about replacing the 2 meals a week of commerical ground duck and rabbit with some freeze dried raw instead. Just because some days I really need to feed freeze dried when I am feeling to sick to prepare the raw meat. I would probably order some Stella and Cheweys, because the Ziwipeak doesn't have any organ or bone in it, and I don't really like that the Wysong Archetypal 1 has fruits and veggies in it (not very much, but still). But do you think this would be okay? Oh I guess I do have one more question... I was thinking of maybe trying a frozen pinky mouse or two with them. My boyfriend bought some for his new snake yesterday and I looked at them and I think I've gotten over my initial "Ewww, poor baby mice" stage so I *might* be able to stomach it. They are so tiny though, do you think I'd need to cut them up, or would the girls take them whole? I just reallllly dont wanna chop them up.
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Post by katt on Jul 12, 2011 13:17:04 GMT -5
Sure enough they ate ALL of them. Yaaay!!!! Turkey liver, pork liver, pork kidney and even pork spleen (which I swore they were never going to touch, the way they turned their noses up at it).That is a very good organ mix. Well I don't know if it was just a fluke or what? I did cover the organs in salmon oil... so that maybe have been the secret trick You may need to continue to do just that. I'd try again this week with the salmon oil and if they gobble it up again, then just go with it. I personally wouldn't even bother trying it without - you are giving them the oil weekly anyways correct? So why not keep pouring it on their organs? If you do prefer to not put it on them, then just slooowly decrease the amount of oil you use over time. Who knows? I'm just very thankful and sincerely hoping it's not a fluke and they eat their organs again this week. *crosses fingers* Let me know! First - ...Does this sound okay? Or should I really aim to be putting fresh food in every 12 hours?That sounds fine. Second - The girls have decided commerical ground raw is just not their thing and I really can't spend the money on it if they don't even like it, so I was thinking about replacing the 2 meals a week of commerical ground duck and rabbit with some freeze dried raw instead. Just because some days I really need to feed freeze dried when I am feeling to sick to prepare the raw meat. I would probably order some Stella and Cheweys, because the Ziwipeak doesn't have any organ or bone in it, and I don't really like that the Wysong Archetypal 1 has fruits and veggies in it (not very much, but still). But do you think this would be okay? Sounds fine to me. Have you tried mixing some pumpkin and oil into the commercial ground though? Also, sometimes they get bored of things, so you might try not feeding them the ground for a few weeks, then bringing it back. As for the FD, it is VERY nice to have on hand for those days where you just can't deal with the meat. I highly recommend Stella and Chewey's and honestly that is all I use if I can help it. The duck duck goose is very good, as is the lamb. They have chicken and beef too I believe but you know, Koda and his IBD... lol Oh I guess I do have one more question... I was thinking of maybe trying a frozen pinky mouse or two with them. My boyfriend bought some for his new snake yesterday and I looked at them and I think I've gotten over my initial "Ewww, poor baby mice" stage so I *might* be able to stomach it. They are so tiny though, do you think I'd need to cut them up, or would the girls take them whole? I just reallllly dont wanna chop them up. Try it! I recommend mixing the pinkies up in their normal meat - so say chopped chicken or something, use a hammer to pulverize the bones a bit, and then toss a few pinkies in and mix it up really well so that the pinkies are covered in chicken flavor and it all blends in together. If they take them that way, mix in less and less chicken (of course you can try plain pinky at any time to see how they take it) until they eat plain pinky. Once they will eat pinkies, you can gradually move them up to fuzzies, then hoppers, then small adults and up. Getting past the flavor is one thing, getting past the fur is another. Once they get used to having fur on their food it is pretty easy to move them from small to adult mice.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2011 22:39:44 GMT -5
Perfect, thanks so much Katt! I don't mind putting the oil on the organs at all, and will definitely keep doing that if it works. I also find giving them food they don't eat a lot of before the organs makes them hungry enough to eat them so I'll keep doing that too. I was reading up on the Stella and cheweys and the duck duck goose (it only comes in that flavor in the dog food right or did I miss the cat food flavored in that?) has a lot of fruits in it too, is that going to be too much of a concern? I'm thinking they'd really like that flavor. I understand that if you only use it once in a while it's fine, but I'm worried if I'm feeding it every week that the sugar from that won't be great. Maybe I'm just being over paranoid though? Thanks for all the other advice I will hopefully give those pinkies a try and work them up to adult mice, I think it would really help me have a better bone source to feed for a few meals a week. They are also eating their raw soup much better now, so I'm pretty confident I'll be good if they get sick. Thanks for the help with that too!
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Post by katt on Jul 13, 2011 20:16:01 GMT -5
I don't mind putting the oil on the organs at all, and will definitely keep doing that if it works. I also find giving them food they don't eat a lot of before the organs makes them hungry enough to eat them so I'll keep doing that too.Perfect! Whatever works! I was reading up on the Stella and cheweys and the duck duck goose (it only comes in that flavor in the dog food right or did I miss the cat food flavored in that?) has a lot of fruits in it too, is that going to be too much of a concern? I'm thinking they'd really like that flavor. I understand that if you only use it once in a while it's fine, but I'm worried if I'm feeding it every week that the sugar from that won't be great. Maybe I'm just being over paranoid though?I do not feed it weekly....but if you got the feline stuff, and then used the canine formulas say every other week or every 3rd week, I don't think it would be a problem. It's like getting extra pumpkin. It still will be nothing Close to the sugars they'd get from a kibble diet. Mostly the fruits and stuff act as fiber + added nutrients. The feline formulas are definitely better though, I just can't find them here and it is cheaper to buy from the store here than to have it shipped. Thanks for all the other advice I will hopefully give those pinkies a try and work them up to adult mice, I think it would really help me have a better bone source to feed for a few meals a week. Perfect! You can always start up a new thread when you are ready to do that, or we can come here again if you prefer. I enjoy working with you and your girls. They are also eating their raw soup much better now, so I'm pretty confident I'll be good if they get sick. Thanks for the help with that too!Great! Just keep feeding it to them a handful of times a month to keep them familiar with it. Get them to eat organs a few more times without trouble and we will re-graduate you! Let me know how it goes this week!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2011 22:40:36 GMT -5
Thanks Katt - I'm going to try find the Stella and Chewys in my area but I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to order it online. It's $20 shipping to Canada from Caseys Hidden Pantry which isnt bad if I order a bunch at once, so I might do that and pray they like it (it seems silly to order their sample pack and pay the $20 shipping) or maybe I can find it here somewhere. Saturday night is their organ meal so I'll let you know on Sunday how that went.
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Post by katt on Jul 14, 2011 17:46:30 GMT -5
Cool I'll wait to hear how they do!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2011 16:25:10 GMT -5
Good news - they ate the organs again I starved them for a few hours prior and put the fish oil on again and left the organs out over night and they ate most of them. They pretty much ate all of the kidney and spleen but not as much liver as last week (to be fair I did end up putting a lot of liver out). They are each eating some of everything (liver, kidney, spleen) so do you think I need to be worried that they're getting enough organ? I assume they self-regulate to some degree, I just almost wonder if I should be offering organ 2 meals per week (or splitting it into 2 meals per week) so that they each eat enough organ for sure? Between the 2 of them, right now they are eating 1 small sauer of kidney and spleen (the saucer is the size of a CD and the organs are in a solid layer on it) and slightly less than one CD sized saucer of liver. I offererd them quite a bit of liver just cause I ended up defrosting too much, so they had 2 plates of liver but left one full plate and ate most of the other plate. Also I haven't used the cod liver oil at all because they did start eating organs again... but can that be given once in a while as a different kind of oil on their food? It just seems like a waste to leave the bottle sitting in my pantry and never use it. Just wanted to get your thoughts
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Post by katt on Jul 19, 2011 4:38:23 GMT -5
Good news - they ate the organs again Yaaaaay!!!! I starved them for a few hours prior and put the fish oil on again and left the organs out over night and they ate most of them. They pretty much ate all of the kidney and spleen but not as much liver as last week (to be fair I did end up putting a lot of liver out).That is awesome news! They are each eating some of everything (liver, kidney, spleen) so do you think I need to be worried that they're getting enough organ? I assume they self-regulate to some degree, I just almost wonder if I should be offering organ 2 meals per week (or splitting it into 2 meals per week) so that they each eat enough organ for sure?Either or as long as they are eating it all and what they are eating is roughly 10% of their overall diet. Try it both ways a few times and see what works best. Between the 2 of them, right now they are eating 1 small sauer of kidney and spleen (the saucer is the size of a CD and the organs are in a solid layer on it) and slightly less than one CD sized saucer of liver. I offererd them quite a bit of liver just cause I ended up defrosting too much, so they had 2 plates of liver but left one full plate and ate most of the other plate. Sounds pretty good - that's pretty close to 50% liver. Also I haven't used the cod liver oil at all because they did start eating organs again... but can that be given once in a while as a different kind of oil on their food? It just seems like a waste to leave the bottle sitting in my pantry and never use it. Can you return it? I'll have to ask Heather... that's her area of expertise! I do believe it is very healthy for use humans to take... haha It's supposed to taste horrid though.
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