Question re: feeding FDR-fed ferret frozen mice

[Ethan]

Hello.

I'm currently in the process of researching feeding my ferret a raw diet and have a question regarding feeding whole prey. I intend to feed a frankenprey diet with whole prey incorporated. Right now I have my little guy (born 1/5/20) on Wysong Archetype FDR (all 3 varieties). I figure while I'm researching how to feed a frankenprey diet I can introduce him to frozen mice since, as I mentioned, I intend to incorporate whole prey into his diet. My question is, how should I go about it? Any tips? I figure start with pinkie mice and go from there. But how should I introduce it to him? Cut it up and include it in his FDR? Tease him with it like it's a toy and let him realize it's food this way? Also, will a pinkie mouse (probably a dumb question) be too tough for a 3 month old who's accustomed to eating rehydrated FDR to chew? Or, conversely, will it help to strengthen his jaws for when I begin feeding him a frankenprey/whole prey diet?

[caitmonster]

Pinky mice are very soft, so a 3 month old will have no problem whatsoever. You may find he'll gobble it down in one go!

Has he been on kibble previously?

You can give the pinkies to him as is, maybe play with them a bit to get his attention. At that age they're still ravenous and more apt to try (and chew on) new things. If he doesn't go for it right away, you can try cutting them up.

Gizzards are super for building jaw strength, plus they're that rubbery texture that ferrets seem to be magnetically drawn to. You can find them in with the chicken at grocery stores.

[Charlie]

Pinkie mice will be easy for a 3 month old ferret to eat. The bones aren't fully formed yet and is considered only a treat. Yes, try teasing your ferret with the mouse, put it on a string and let him chase it. Or even add some drops of salmon oil on the pinkie mouse if your ferret likes salmon oil I never had to cut the pinkie up when I introduced it but others have.

When I first introduced mice into my ferret's diet I started with a pinkie then moved to a hopper mouse then went to full adult mice. I think I had bought 2 pinkie mice. He ate half of the first one I gave him. I just left it in his cage. When I tried it again I put salmon oil on it and he ate the whole thing. Then I bought him a hopper mouse (it's a mouse with fur and is a weaned mouse but still not full grown so I considered it a treat still). Then I went to full sized large adult mice. He gets 2 per meal. It's his favourite meal

[Ethan]

Awesome! I'll start with pinkie mice then. And I'll try the trick with the string. I'm sure he'll go crazy for it.

caitmonster: Yes, he had been on kibble. I didn't consider that. Although I did have to wet it for him as he seemed (at least at first) to have trouble chewing it. Then again, that was when I very first got him.
As for gizzards, would it be a good idea to go ahead and start adding small pieces to his FDR now to go ahead and start building his jaw strength? I'm wanting to skip the soup stage and go ahead and start adding chunks of boneless meat, organs, hearts, etc., and then incorporating bone-in meats (namely chicken wings to start). And that's a good point about the rubbery texture. I'm sure he would love it for that reason alone.

Charlie: That's what I think I'll do too. Pinkies, hoppers, and then, if he takes the previous two, large adults.

Thank you both for answering my questions.

[Ethan]

Actually, Charlie: Do you think it would be a good idea to start with hoppers and then move on to large adult mice, or maybe even skip the hoppers and start with large adults? I'm having trouble finding pinkies nearby. The local pet store (Petco, where I got Bardamu, my ferret) seems to be sold out of pinkies but have large adults and hoppers available.

Also, I was thinking perhaps going nearly full whole-prey (much simpler and easier to ensure nutritional balance than frankenprey) while continuing to feed the FDR a couple times a week. He seems to love it and it really is quite convenient. What do you guys think?

[Ethan]

Never mind, I'm a dummy. That was just their online stock. Picked up some pinkies, fuzzies, hoppers and adults (18 grams). Thawing a pinkie now.

[caitmonster]

Apr 17, 2020 22:12:13 GMT -5 Ethan said:

caitmonster: Yes, he had been on kibble. I didn't consider that. Although I did have to wet it for him as he seemed (at least at first) to have trouble chewing it. Then again, that was when I very first got him.
As for gizzards, would it be a good idea to go ahead and start adding small pieces to his FDR now to go ahead and start building his jaw strength? I'm wanting to skip the soup stage and go ahead and start adding chunks of boneless meat, organs, hearts, etc., and then incorporating bone-in meats (namely chicken wings to start). And that's a good point about the rubbery texture. I'm sure he would love it for that reason alone.

Sure, you can start adding bits of gizzard, and see how he likes it. They are pretty tough so you'll definitely want a very sharp knife!

[abbeytheferret6]

I love using scissors for cutting meats

There all kind of tricks to getting ferrets to eating mice. You might waste a few at first---but my success came by keep putting them before the ferret.

You can skin them, which is what I did at first. I also cut them up while skinned. Sometimes I put salmon oil on them, but you got to  get your ferret to like salmon oil first.

Here is my Phoebe eating cut up mouse with fur on with salmon oil. 

[Ethan]

I had a bit of success introducing a pinkie mice yesterday, if you want to call it that. I tried getting him to play with it at first by dangling it in front of him but he wasn't at all interested, so I cut/smashed it up and added it to his FDR and he seemed to eat most of it, though he left a bit of it behind, and even took a bit of it out of his bowl and left it to the side. He seemed to retch at one point which I took as an indication that he ate/swallowed at least a piece. Then last night I cut one open and left it in his bowl overnight but he didn't even touch it I had even sprinkled some of his FDR and treats over it.

I'm thawing another pinkie now. Should I just leave it uncut in his bowl? Should I take away his FDR for a few hours and then try again? I don't want to fast him for too long as he's still a kit (3 and a half months). Or should I just chop it up and put it in his FDR again?

Good girl, Phoebe! Lol

[caitmonster]

Sounds like he tried a bit of it at least. I'd wait a little while until you know he's hungry and try chopping it up and mixing it into the FDR again. Sometimes they do take some convincing, especially for one that's new to raw and whole prey like he is. If you do notice him eating it, give lots of praise and attention to help him get the point, lol.

[Ethan]

Okay. I'll wait a few then. Thanks for the advice!

[Charlie]

Yeah, I wasted a pinkie mouse too once. The second pinkie I left in his cage and when he was hungry he ate it. The reason I tried a hopper next was because I wasn't sure if he would eat fur so that's why I went that route, just to make sure he would eat it as large adult mice cost more and didn't want to waste it. Then I went right to large adult mice right away after the 1 hopper.

I'd love to do full whole prey diet too but it's not as feasible for me. If I bred my own whole prey it would probably be cheaper, but again, not realistic for me. I just don't have the room to keep a variety of whole prey and then again they would become pets. LOL I love animals.

So I do the frankenprey and whole prey mix.

[Ethan]

Actually, I think that I'll try leaving it in his bowl again, but this time not cut it open like I did the second one. And then if he still doesn't take it I'll add it to his FDR.

I also tried the "Scruff and Sample" method with the pinkie's guts. So he's tasted it for sure. Hopefully he takes to it soon.

Yeah, I don't have the room either. I wish I did. It would be much cheaper.

That is one thing I find to be a deterrent to going fully whole prey: it is costly. But it's so much simpler! I'm still not sure yet though. I may still end up going the frankenprey/whole prey route. It would certainly be cheaper.

[Ethan]

Another semi-success. I left it in his bowl whole at first for a few hours. Occasionally he would grab it and place it somewhere else, but this was only once I sprinkled bits of his crushed up FDR treats on top (Wysong Dream Treats, for reference). It didn't seem as though he was exactly stashing it as he dropped it close nearby in the open, but I'm new to ferrets and their behavior so perhaps he was stashing it. He did this a few times. So then I used the powder from his FDR to make a sort of gravy, which he lapped up, leaving the pinkie. It'd been 6 to 7 hours since he'd eaten at this point and I was beginning to feel bad for him (I've read you can fast them for up to 12 hours but I'm not sure if this also applies to kits) so I gave in and chopped up the pinkie into small bits and added rehydrated FDR. He ate most of it, including, from the looks of it, most of the pinkie, though I could see a bit of the pinkie left along with a bit of the FDR.

However, about three-quarters of the way through he vomited, though just a tiny bit. He (disgustingly, from my human perspective) didn't let this deter him though and continued eating like nothing happened. It was almost as if he just regurgitated a bit. I'd read that vomiting once when introducing them to raw/whole prey is normal. Any insight?

Also, should I try another pinkie tomorrow? I've one more left, though I also have some hoppers, fuzzies and adults.

[Corvidophile]

Keep at it with the pinkies first I’d say. You’re doing good so far. One thing you can try is to stuff food inside the mouse so they have to get into it to get it out. I know it can be gross at first.