|
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 14:50:51 GMT -5
Vinegar and water here. I use green works spray on other stuff. Hot water and soap ;D
Natures miracle for carpet stains
|
|
|
Post by goingpostal on Jun 20, 2011 14:52:14 GMT -5
And yet many vets suggest fresh fruit/veggies as healthy treats for dogs, and I haven't met one yet that says I shouldn't feed my iguana fresh greens because of the dreaded salmonella. I'm like Jackie, honestly I'm not super psycho about cleanliness, the dogs/cat/ferrets get raw, the iguana gets his veggies, I raise mice who can be carriers of salmonella, plenty of the meat is from the store. I wash my hands as needed and use vinegar water for cleaning ferret stuff.
|
|
|
Post by Sherry on Jun 20, 2011 19:51:58 GMT -5
My vet and I have "agreed to disagree" ;D Especially once I referred to what they sell(and an e-vet there wanted me to feed my cats) as "crap in a bag" ;D They don't give me any guff, for the simple reason that they realize that I've researched far more into diet than they have. And can rebut everything they've tried to throw up at me.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 21:17:41 GMT -5
I don't think a dip in weak hydrogen peroxide would be an issue since it degrades into water and oxygen gas, but I've never tried it. I've been feeding raw for about two years now and have never taken precautions beyond what I would take in preparing my own meat (clean hands, clean prep surfaces) and have never had any issues. I'm thinking the combination of highly acidic stomach and short digestive tract are enough to prevent food-borne illnesses from getting a foothold, and they do seem to have a good nose for bad food....they'll eat days old jerky they've stashed, but they're selective enough they won't eat the stuff that's really gone rancid.
|
|
|
Post by miamiferret2 on Jun 20, 2011 22:15:23 GMT -5
i think we get more bacteria from vegetables! aren't those d*mn cucumbers killing people in germany right now??
|
|
|
Post by goingpostal on Jun 20, 2011 22:37:06 GMT -5
Mmmm but cucumbers are so good...I should get me some. I like em soaked in vinegar water though, that probably kills off any nasties lol!
|
|
|
Post by shilohismygirl on Jun 20, 2011 22:45:56 GMT -5
Operate as usual. Many vets are misinformed. My vet is very much about feeding raw. She says that the risks are very minimal compared to the benefits. She actually gave me a handout about feeding raw when I first brought them in for their first checkup. I was already feeding raw, and she knew this, but wanted me to have it just in case. That was the clincher- because I knew she'd done her research. Thank goodness too, because she's been an amazing vet.
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Jun 20, 2011 23:03:43 GMT -5
I've been feeding raw for close to 15 yrs now. I've managed to convince, through knowledge, and the health of my little ones, 3 vets who previously were skeptical and at times outright negative about raw. My present vet has even started pushing raw diets and has brought in a line of allergy raw meals to help dogs combat their allergies to various additives that come in the processed dog foods (which she does sell as well). Over 30 fuzzes, 4 cats and 3 dogs have lived and thrived under my roof on a natural raw diet. Yes, it is possible for these little ones to come down with salmonella...but I've never encountered it. The ferrets that I have heard of getting salmonella were surprisingly kibble fed. Salmonella, is more dangerous to us than our furry little friends. I have heard of various horror stories that have been told by vets to terrify raw feeders and have even heard of vets threatening to refuse to treat these pets (I'm also going to add, I've never actually heard of a vet doing so) but they have been so harsh and narrow minded to blame all the pet's problems on the type of feeding rather than looking for a disease. Remember, the vet works for you. You are at liberty to take your business elsewhere. Remember as well that vets get very little true nutritional training and even then it's provided by the kibble industry. They are not taught to create a diet, they're only taught how to dispense the product that they sell. This is not something to be taken lightly. I've been told this a number of times by not only student vets but by some vets themselves. Remember too, the number of recalls of kibbles and other pet products for carrying just the bacteria infestations that the vets are telling you is going to be in your raw diets. Now, to give vets their dues, they've also seen the many times of various nutrional issues raised by not feeding properly. A raw diet when done correctly far exceeds any processed diet...but that being said, done incorrectly can cost your little ones not only their health but their life. Know what you're doing, research to the point that you understand not only the recipe that you're creating but why you're doing it. In doing so, you can argue your point in an educated manner. Never loose your temper. Some vets will not acknowledge your points no matter what, then you do as Sherry does, agree to disagree....or move on Most of all, don't let them push you around. ciao
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2011 10:32:58 GMT -5
Thank you Heather. I don't want to fight with the vet about raw. I can tell my kids feel better look better and smell better. That Is all I need to see to know I am doing the right thing.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2011 18:10:24 GMT -5
If you use the peroxide, you MUST rinse it off after the soak. You don't leave it on, at least that's what I've been told. Most use it with dogs, whose digestive track isn't as quick, so run slightly more of a risk of contracting a food borne disease. You can also cut off the outer layer of meat (mostly likely to be contaminated).
I've been feeding raw for over three years, now, to ferts, dogs and cats and NEVER had an issue (and I just feed as normal). Most vets I happen across are fine with it, some are curious, but none have given me grief except one - my old dog/cat vet, who I love to death but who was DEAD SET against the raw diet. I just looked at her after one of her rants and said "oh well." I had done my research and was comfortable with it, and I knew the ins and outs (of alternative diets) better than she did and we both knew it, so.
There's an amazing lack of awareness, when - if you think about it - raw/natural (or other biologically correct diets - you wouldn't believe the flak I get for not feeding Cinder the Rabbit pellets, instead opting for hay hay hay and greens/veg/fruit salads) are the most obvious choice for our pets but sometimes all you can do is shrug.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2011 13:29:17 GMT -5
Wow, information OVERLOAD! Holy cow, this is great information. I have nothing to add everyone has made great points, I just came here to say how awesome this thread is
|
|
|
Post by crazylady on Jun 30, 2011 15:39:35 GMT -5
Hi I have been feeding raw for over 40 years now ( my father and grandfather fed it for over 80 years between them ! and in all there extensive records yes they kept books upon books of records of births matings and deaths no where is food poisoning listed ) I have never encounter any problems feeding raw ( and in some cases mine hunt it I clean it and its fed to them while still warm ! ) the stomach acid in a ferret is the best bacteria killer there is think about it in the wild there food is dragged through mud dirt leaves even dung ! some is road kill that has lain in the sun for a couple of days is gobbled down heck even there own kill can lie around for four or five days until fully consumed with no ill effects ! I too have heard of animals taking ill due to kibble ( look how much is recalled ) why its simple meat that goes into some pet food factory lies around for days rotting then its bleached washed down and processed ! you don't think it is nice cuts of meat in those bags do you lol no often animal food manufactures stock pile until they get enough for a certain run of food lol stands to reason the meat the bottom of the pile isn't going to be in as good shape as that on the top ! but it all gets ground down and mixed in and often the top priced kibbles use the same manufacturers who supply the cheaper kibble makers the difference is a different picture on the bag and a few extra ingredients plus a diffrent price of course ! the only person you have to worry about getting salmonella is you make sure you wash surfaces and utensils thoroughly after cutting meat heck I have no immune system and I am surviving lol take what your vet has told you with a pinch of salt and do what you want its your ferret ! take care bye for now bev aka crazy lady
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2011 16:36:08 GMT -5
I checked out the petmd link and I suppose it is possible, especially in immune compromised pets. I would imagine a pet with an ulcer that has medication to manage stomach acid would be of special consideration. I just wash all my meats with cold water thoroughly. Keep everything clean and cold/frozen until serving. My sink is sanitized with bleach solution every night and all utensils and surfaces are sanitized with bleach as needed. Who was it that said "Cleanliness is next to manager-liness" ? LOL yeah, vets like everyone have their own opinions, otherwise why would one vet for for a raw diet and another against? another idea would be to grind your own if you are using ground meat. You control the quality of he ground meat and there is no risk of intestinal matter coming in contact with it in YOUR kitchen (e coli) unlike slaughter/meat packing plants where the thinking is foods that are intended for cooking.
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Jun 30, 2011 17:59:03 GMT -5
I guess mentioning that I cut up a rabbit and fed it to the guys in it's altogether wouldn't exactly match the whole idea of cleanliness My bunnies come frozen, with everything intact....I've found that by leaving it frozen then cutting it in half, popping out the stomach and the spleen (for some reason my guys will not touch any of that stuff for anything...good thing...it stinks) I then just cut the bunny in quarters (these aren't little rabbits) and then divy it up. I don't worry about the intestines....they're in there..so whatever bacteria is in there too. They eat it. Same goes for the rats and mice. I've got 10 ferrets....Lady "B" is adrenal, Captain Jack is adrenal, Fun-Go is insulinoma and on pred, Yuri is insulinoma and on pred, Sprite is adrenal each one of these ferrets would be considered to be immune compromised. Each one is fed raw. I've had ferrets with IBD, lymphomas, juvenile lymphomas and ulcers....they've all been fed raw. They all thrived on raw despite their di-sease. There does come a point in a sick ferrets life when they no longer can process raw, their digestive system has to work too hard....then they get cooked or semi cooked (consider this as predigested). This doesn't have anything to do with bacterial loads, this has to do with digestive issues. To date, I've never had a fuzz have an issue with a raw diet in regards to bacterial overload. Ferrets, like dogs and cats are meant even sick to handle meat bacterias. Ferrets will not eat a meat that is bad for them, but that being said they will eat meat that they've stashed that has become jerky (disgusting) or they will also eat meat that is on it's way to being jerky (many times more disgusting). Take care how you handle this meat (I use a litter scoop) because it can make "you" sick.... but probably not them ciao
|
|
|
Post by crazylady on Jun 30, 2011 18:28:44 GMT -5
LoL Heather you post made me smile and yes I am with you 100% it does stink lol ( I have cleaned 1000's of fresh ones over the years lol if you pop that stomach bag your tasting and smelling rabbits insides for days lol ) an easy way to do it before you freeze is to take a craft knife gently cut open the tummy (just the skin ) turn your bunny upside down hold the head and front legs and the back legs and simply give a quick shake downwards ( have a bin underneath complete with liner intact lol ) everything you don't need falls out in one piece thanks to gravity no smell lol hey presto one clean bunny lol as for rotten meat I have found some not so nice surprises in my time ( hidden stashes that are alive with maggots yuck ) and my ferrets look at me as if to say aww mum I was saving that its just getting tender lol its funny when you think game dealers hang pheasants for days to tenderise the meat lol and its classed as a delicacy and an expensive meat lol ( rather have a chicken lol ) and no one complains or seems to get ill maybe stashed meat is a ferret equivalent lol take care bye for now bev aka crazy lady
|
|