Post by jarrett on Nov 23, 2018 0:48:59 GMT -5
Hey everyone, my name’s Jarrett! So happy to have found a community that serves as such a wealth of knowledge of ferret health, nutrition, and experience. I’ve been stalking the forums for a couple weeks now and figured it was about time I make an account and introduce myself! 
Anywho like I said my name’s Jarrett and I am currently owned by several furry critters… Three ferrets; Loki, Diana, and Ishtar, as well as one kitty by the name of Zodiac. They’re all around 5 or 6 based on adoption estimates. Needless to say chaos reigns supreme here. 
Let me just preface this post with this: I’m SO SORRY I’m about to write an essay…. Tried to keep it brief, but I suppose that’s never been my strong suit! If you get through this all without falling asleep you’re my hero, LOL!
I’ve recently been reading as much as possible here because one of my ferrets, Diana, has been having some serious health issues and I’d like to get her and the other ferrets over to raw ASAP. The goal is to keep her as comfortable as possible for as long as possible, and of course also to maintain the health of Loki and Ishtar as much as I can.
As a background to Diana’s health issues let me just start from the beginning. She has always been a very strange ferret. I’ve always considered her, well…. Special, lets just say. She’s always been very clumsy, not particularly coordinated, for the most part pretty lazy, and also has always been the most unpredictable with using the litterbox. Sometimes she will go in the literal middle of a room, no corners in sight. She’s more of an eat, sleep, bathroom kind of a girl than a play or explore kind of girl. Though she was definitely more active when younger, even then I’ve never seen her dance or even run much at all to be honest. She mostly stays out of trouble, though back in the day she had a habit of trying to eat everything to a greater degree than the others. Needless to say, she’s an oddball of a ferret, and now I can’t help but to wonder if perhaps she’s had ongoing health issues her whole life that I just attributed to personality/peculiarity. Who knows.
Anyway, about 6-7 months back I started to notice Diana becoming even more strange with her bathroom habits. I was noticing she would head towards a corner and after reaching it she would pee, but start walking forward mid-pee, leaving a trail of several feet. I figured with her track record age might just be making her urinary habits even more strange, but still thought I should get her in to see a vet. The ferrets were due for their vaccines so I figured it was perfect timing to get it all out of the way at once. When I finally got over to the vet and had him examine her, I was informed that Diana’s kidneys were very enlarged due to either cysts or tumors, and after blood work was performed it was found that her liver enzymes were elevated, though the various directly kidney-related tests came back mostly normal. I was given the supplement Standard Process: Canine Hepatic Support. At that time I scheduled a return appointment for about 3 weeks ago to re-check her kidneys and re-run blood work, as well as to get everyone their DES implants. Over the course of that time I started to notice she was losing a very scary amount of weight, though perhaps this had begun earlier than I realized and just didn’t notice… as of now she is quite frankly practically skin and bones, though her thick coat tends to mask that fact.
Upon our return it was found that her kidneys were even more enlarged, the vet said almost the size of grape tomatoes, and now her kidney enzymes and related chemicals were elevated in addition to the liver enzymes. The vet said he really wasn’t sure how long she had. I was of course devastated and kind of at a loss… I’m not ready to lose her. But I told myself that she was still acting mostly her normal self, her poops are mostly regular, and her energy levels seem to be the same low levels as usual. She’s not particularly out of the ordinary besides a bit of energy and coordination loss, so I tried to use that to maintain faith. On that trip it was determined I should wait to give her the implant after just having gotten blood work done, so I scheduled another appointment for two weeks later. The vet wasn’t even sure I should do it at all, but I had noticed some hair loss on her tail, something I’ve noticed on and off with both of the girls for years on and off, and I had to wonder if there might be some adrenal factoring in to this equation as well. We left the vet with an additional supplement from Standard Process which was their renal support variety, which I’ve been giving a half dose of with a half dose of the liver support in their food ever since.
When we returned to the vet two weeks later Diana received her DES implant and the other two had blood work done. Loki’s blood work was normal, Ishar showed reduced blood glucose which vet said may indicate insulinoma, but suggested returning in a month to re-test to be certain. On the bright side he said Diana’s kidneys, though still quite enlarged, were less so than before. When I return I will get blood work done on her again and also likely spring for an ultra sound.
In the mean time, I bought some wysong epigen 90 Digestive Support and also a bag of the Archetype 1. Currently they receive the 90 mixed in at about a 1:10 ratio with their original Blue Buffalo, along with treats of the Archetype whenever I get a chance. Muscle wasting is apparently a not uncommon symptom of kidney disease, hence her weight loss, so I wanted to up the percentage of readily digestible protein in her diet to try to help her with that immediately while I sort out a full raw plan. Of course the conundrum then becomes that too much protein in of itself is not great for failing kidneys, and I’m just not sure how the variables of volume of protein in the diet vs digestibility of said protein relates in this equation. Is upping protein ok if the protein is easier to digest? On top of that I attempted to hydrate their food to around the same percentage as most meat… I think I settled on 66% by weight. This resulted in adding an almost equal volume of H20 to dry kibble. I assumed because almost half of the volume of what they were eating was water that their bodies would crave more food, they’d eat more total volume, and end up getting the same amount of calories in a day. Unfortunately that’s not how it worked out. They ate about the same volume of food as before, equalling half the daily calories. After two days this made me nervous, given her previous weight loss, so I stopped.
So now here we are. They are receiving the previously mentioned 1:10 ratio of Epigen to Blue Buffalo, plus treats of Archetype and salmon oil. Trying to get them into eggs too, though even thats a struggle at the moment. Diana continues to get worse with her bathroom habits, and has already pooped all over the $70 of blankets I just swapped into the enclosure LOL. Frustrating, definitely. But what are ya guna do ya know? I plan to switch them to full raw ASAP, but need to have my ducks in a row first before I jump in. Being in the restaurant industry, this is naturally the worst time of year to have to take on an extra project of this magnitude, but I guess it is what it is. In the mean time I’ll try to organize my seemingly endless questions into some type of organized list:
1) Is it bad that I’m now incorporating a kibble that is 62% protein into their diet? Will the type of proteins in wysong be so much more easily digestible as to allow for heightened dietary protein without further strain on the kidneys? Or is this playing with fire? Furthermore, am I even correct in thinking that animal proteins will cause less strain on the kidneys? And if so what about these proteins differs so much as to reduce such strain in the first place?
2)Is hydrating kibble with an already underweight ferret risky when the reduced actual nutrition intake is taken into account? Does their body eventually adjust, resulting in them eating more volume? If so, how long does that normally take?
3)I’ve read that raw should not be fed at the same time as kibble. Does this apply to FDR as well? Or is it just that wet food digests differently than dry? I currently give the FDR whenever I see Diana active. She loves it, and has had no problem adjusting. Plus, she’s always been the most willing to eagerly try new food (like licking up remains of wet cat food LOL). However am I putting her at risk of bacterial overload by feeding her FDR willy nilly?
4)It’s my understanding that renal failure often results in the accumulation of Potassium, and I think I may have read also Phosphorous, in the body to toxic levels. This causes various symptoms including weakness in the hind legs, which Diana definitely exhibits. Is this something I should be concerned about when feeding meat and bone which both have a decent P and K content?
5)My father, who is a Doctor and also animal lover of several decades, seems to recall he was told year ago by a vet that his cat at the time with kidney disease should not receive liver meat for some reason or another. He suggested I look into this when I mentioned that secreting organs are a necessary part of the carnivore diet. Has anyone heard this or have any reason to think it true?
6)The supplements I am giving them contain both animal and plant ingredients, is this something I should be concerned about?
7)Though as I said her bathroom habits have always been less predictable than the others, I really think her enlarged kidneys are making it harder for her to go, thereby increasing the percentage of time that she “misses.” Is there any hope of reducing this, or am I just going to have to surrender to it? Is this common in older ferrets?
8)With her condition I’d like to find the cleanest possible meat sources, but unfortunately I’m not thinking my local asian grocer carries a whole lot of organic, LOL. Is this something that we just kind of deal with when feeding raw? Lord know the kibble isn’t organic anyway, so I suppose anything raw is a step in the right direction. For now I’m checking out some raw pet co-ops in the area.
I have so many more questions but it’s getting late and I’d like to just post this already seeing as how I’ve been working on typing it up for two days now. I’ve tried to include every detail I can think of, but I’ll return with more as I think of them. I’m sorry I’ve just written an entire freaking essay… just trying to cover as many bases as possible as quickly as possible. Again thanks so much to all the amazing people on here who have created such a wonderful community. Even having this be my first post I already feel so much more relaxed knowing there is a group of people so willing and able to help in situations like this. Thanks to anyone and everyone who can lend any advice or support in regards to the situation my ferrets and I are dealing with. It means so much!
Oh and Happy Thanksgiving!!!
PS-To the admins, I know this is a lot of questions for an intro post. If you feel this should be moved elsewhere of course feel free!!
Anywho like I said my name’s Jarrett and I am currently owned by several furry critters… Three ferrets; Loki, Diana, and Ishtar, as well as one kitty by the name of Zodiac. They’re all around 5 or 6 based on adoption estimates. Needless to say chaos reigns supreme here. Let me just preface this post with this: I’m SO SORRY I’m about to write an essay…. Tried to keep it brief, but I suppose that’s never been my strong suit! If you get through this all without falling asleep you’re my hero, LOL!
I’ve recently been reading as much as possible here because one of my ferrets, Diana, has been having some serious health issues and I’d like to get her and the other ferrets over to raw ASAP. The goal is to keep her as comfortable as possible for as long as possible, and of course also to maintain the health of Loki and Ishtar as much as I can.
As a background to Diana’s health issues let me just start from the beginning. She has always been a very strange ferret. I’ve always considered her, well…. Special, lets just say. She’s always been very clumsy, not particularly coordinated, for the most part pretty lazy, and also has always been the most unpredictable with using the litterbox. Sometimes she will go in the literal middle of a room, no corners in sight. She’s more of an eat, sleep, bathroom kind of a girl than a play or explore kind of girl. Though she was definitely more active when younger, even then I’ve never seen her dance or even run much at all to be honest. She mostly stays out of trouble, though back in the day she had a habit of trying to eat everything to a greater degree than the others. Needless to say, she’s an oddball of a ferret, and now I can’t help but to wonder if perhaps she’s had ongoing health issues her whole life that I just attributed to personality/peculiarity. Who knows.
Anyway, about 6-7 months back I started to notice Diana becoming even more strange with her bathroom habits. I was noticing she would head towards a corner and after reaching it she would pee, but start walking forward mid-pee, leaving a trail of several feet. I figured with her track record age might just be making her urinary habits even more strange, but still thought I should get her in to see a vet. The ferrets were due for their vaccines so I figured it was perfect timing to get it all out of the way at once. When I finally got over to the vet and had him examine her, I was informed that Diana’s kidneys were very enlarged due to either cysts or tumors, and after blood work was performed it was found that her liver enzymes were elevated, though the various directly kidney-related tests came back mostly normal. I was given the supplement Standard Process: Canine Hepatic Support. At that time I scheduled a return appointment for about 3 weeks ago to re-check her kidneys and re-run blood work, as well as to get everyone their DES implants. Over the course of that time I started to notice she was losing a very scary amount of weight, though perhaps this had begun earlier than I realized and just didn’t notice… as of now she is quite frankly practically skin and bones, though her thick coat tends to mask that fact.
Upon our return it was found that her kidneys were even more enlarged, the vet said almost the size of grape tomatoes, and now her kidney enzymes and related chemicals were elevated in addition to the liver enzymes. The vet said he really wasn’t sure how long she had. I was of course devastated and kind of at a loss… I’m not ready to lose her. But I told myself that she was still acting mostly her normal self, her poops are mostly regular, and her energy levels seem to be the same low levels as usual. She’s not particularly out of the ordinary besides a bit of energy and coordination loss, so I tried to use that to maintain faith. On that trip it was determined I should wait to give her the implant after just having gotten blood work done, so I scheduled another appointment for two weeks later. The vet wasn’t even sure I should do it at all, but I had noticed some hair loss on her tail, something I’ve noticed on and off with both of the girls for years on and off, and I had to wonder if there might be some adrenal factoring in to this equation as well. We left the vet with an additional supplement from Standard Process which was their renal support variety, which I’ve been giving a half dose of with a half dose of the liver support in their food ever since.
When we returned to the vet two weeks later Diana received her DES implant and the other two had blood work done. Loki’s blood work was normal, Ishar showed reduced blood glucose which vet said may indicate insulinoma, but suggested returning in a month to re-test to be certain. On the bright side he said Diana’s kidneys, though still quite enlarged, were less so than before. When I return I will get blood work done on her again and also likely spring for an ultra sound.
In the mean time, I bought some wysong epigen 90 Digestive Support and also a bag of the Archetype 1. Currently they receive the 90 mixed in at about a 1:10 ratio with their original Blue Buffalo, along with treats of the Archetype whenever I get a chance. Muscle wasting is apparently a not uncommon symptom of kidney disease, hence her weight loss, so I wanted to up the percentage of readily digestible protein in her diet to try to help her with that immediately while I sort out a full raw plan. Of course the conundrum then becomes that too much protein in of itself is not great for failing kidneys, and I’m just not sure how the variables of volume of protein in the diet vs digestibility of said protein relates in this equation. Is upping protein ok if the protein is easier to digest? On top of that I attempted to hydrate their food to around the same percentage as most meat… I think I settled on 66% by weight. This resulted in adding an almost equal volume of H20 to dry kibble. I assumed because almost half of the volume of what they were eating was water that their bodies would crave more food, they’d eat more total volume, and end up getting the same amount of calories in a day. Unfortunately that’s not how it worked out. They ate about the same volume of food as before, equalling half the daily calories. After two days this made me nervous, given her previous weight loss, so I stopped.
So now here we are. They are receiving the previously mentioned 1:10 ratio of Epigen to Blue Buffalo, plus treats of Archetype and salmon oil. Trying to get them into eggs too, though even thats a struggle at the moment. Diana continues to get worse with her bathroom habits, and has already pooped all over the $70 of blankets I just swapped into the enclosure LOL. Frustrating, definitely. But what are ya guna do ya know? I plan to switch them to full raw ASAP, but need to have my ducks in a row first before I jump in. Being in the restaurant industry, this is naturally the worst time of year to have to take on an extra project of this magnitude, but I guess it is what it is. In the mean time I’ll try to organize my seemingly endless questions into some type of organized list:
1) Is it bad that I’m now incorporating a kibble that is 62% protein into their diet? Will the type of proteins in wysong be so much more easily digestible as to allow for heightened dietary protein without further strain on the kidneys? Or is this playing with fire? Furthermore, am I even correct in thinking that animal proteins will cause less strain on the kidneys? And if so what about these proteins differs so much as to reduce such strain in the first place?
2)Is hydrating kibble with an already underweight ferret risky when the reduced actual nutrition intake is taken into account? Does their body eventually adjust, resulting in them eating more volume? If so, how long does that normally take?
3)I’ve read that raw should not be fed at the same time as kibble. Does this apply to FDR as well? Or is it just that wet food digests differently than dry? I currently give the FDR whenever I see Diana active. She loves it, and has had no problem adjusting. Plus, she’s always been the most willing to eagerly try new food (like licking up remains of wet cat food LOL). However am I putting her at risk of bacterial overload by feeding her FDR willy nilly?
4)It’s my understanding that renal failure often results in the accumulation of Potassium, and I think I may have read also Phosphorous, in the body to toxic levels. This causes various symptoms including weakness in the hind legs, which Diana definitely exhibits. Is this something I should be concerned about when feeding meat and bone which both have a decent P and K content?
5)My father, who is a Doctor and also animal lover of several decades, seems to recall he was told year ago by a vet that his cat at the time with kidney disease should not receive liver meat for some reason or another. He suggested I look into this when I mentioned that secreting organs are a necessary part of the carnivore diet. Has anyone heard this or have any reason to think it true?
6)The supplements I am giving them contain both animal and plant ingredients, is this something I should be concerned about?
7)Though as I said her bathroom habits have always been less predictable than the others, I really think her enlarged kidneys are making it harder for her to go, thereby increasing the percentage of time that she “misses.” Is there any hope of reducing this, or am I just going to have to surrender to it? Is this common in older ferrets?
8)With her condition I’d like to find the cleanest possible meat sources, but unfortunately I’m not thinking my local asian grocer carries a whole lot of organic, LOL. Is this something that we just kind of deal with when feeding raw? Lord know the kibble isn’t organic anyway, so I suppose anything raw is a step in the right direction. For now I’m checking out some raw pet co-ops in the area.
I have so many more questions but it’s getting late and I’d like to just post this already seeing as how I’ve been working on typing it up for two days now. I’ve tried to include every detail I can think of, but I’ll return with more as I think of them. I’m sorry I’ve just written an entire freaking essay… just trying to cover as many bases as possible as quickly as possible. Again thanks so much to all the amazing people on here who have created such a wonderful community. Even having this be my first post I already feel so much more relaxed knowing there is a group of people so willing and able to help in situations like this. Thanks to anyone and everyone who can lend any advice or support in regards to the situation my ferrets and I are dealing with. It means so much!
Oh and Happy Thanksgiving!!!
PS-To the admins, I know this is a lot of questions for an intro post. If you feel this should be moved elsewhere of course feel free!!
