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Post by katt on Jun 17, 2011 19:58:47 GMT -5
I haven't read the whole thread, but you need more edible bones. Chicken feet and turkey neck are great because they have a low meat content high bone content (ESP the feet) so you can still feed them as "supplements" so to speak along with other meats.
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Post by Heather on Jun 17, 2011 22:26:29 GMT -5
I've smashed lamb and goat (these were rib bones and young animals)...didn't have much luck with the beef though  ciao |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 22:54:30 GMT -5
I haven't read the whole thread, but you need more edible bones. Chicken feet and turkey neck are great because they have a low meat content high bone content (ESP the feet) so you can still feed them as "supplements" so to speak along with other meats. Thanks for the idea about the feet, I think they would be able to chew those better. They are lazy about eating the turkey neck bones, which is one of the issues. So I'm going to try smashing up more of the bones to see if that helps, but I'll pick up some chicken feet too. Heather - the lamb and goat bones I have are thick chunks and don't seem very smashible Oh well. The bones are primarily for calcium and secondarily for teeth cleaning right? So if I can't get them eating my smashed up bones would it be okay to add more commercial ground into the diet instead (the ground up carcasses). They're starting to decide they like it after all  |
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Post by Heather on Jun 17, 2011 23:01:17 GMT -5
Oh, yes. Commercial will definitely fill their calcium needs. Even gibbies will clean their teeth  , but it's best to use bones where possible. Little bums have probably discovered they don't have to work as hard if they eat the commercial stuff ciao |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2011 23:05:21 GMT -5
Good to know! I'd definitely rather have them eat whole bones for sure, but I don't want them missing out on the calcium in the mean time so I might add more commercial ground and more easy to chew bones (quail, chicken, etc.) in the mean time. I'm going to do a big shopping trip this weekend and re-vamp the menu so I'll probably post the updated one to this thread on Sunday just to double check it's OK  I definitely want to get the menu right sooner rather than later so they don't get any calcium defiencies or anything like that! But yes they are brats  ;D |
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Post by Sherry on Jun 18, 2011 11:17:37 GMT -5
You'll notice the beginnings of calcium deficiency long before it has an effect on their health Their nails start to get brittle, and split. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2011 22:17:31 GMT -5
Thanks Sherry and thanks for the Co-Op suggestion, I got some good pork button bones and end bones that look chewable (I might still smash them at first to get the ferts eating them). So here's my "revised" menu. I'm going to start smashing the bones they aren't eating and then hopefully those will count as bone-in meats too. So here we go: MONDAY: AM – Pork Meat + Pork Hearts (Muscle Meat) PM – Smashed Pork Bones (Bone-In) TUESDAY: AM – Commercial Ground Rabbit (Bone-In) PM – Cornish Hen (Bone-In) WEDNESDAY: AM – Goat (Muscle Meat) PM – Smashed Turkey Necks/Wings (Bone-In) and Gizzards/Ground (Muscle Meat) THURSDAY: AM – Beef Meat + Beef Hearts (Muscle Meat) PM – Whole Quail (Bone-In) FRIDAY: AM – Commercial Ground Duck (Bone-In) PM – Smashed Chicken Wings/Necks and Backs (Bone-In) SATURDAY: AM – Hearts (Chicken and/or Pork, Beef, Turkey) PM – Organs (Chicken/Pork/Beef Liver + Beef/Pork Kidney + Beef Offal) SUNDAY: AM- Cornish Hen (Bone-In) PM- Lamb (Muscle Meat) Is there still not enough bone in there? Or does that look OK? Thanks everyone  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2011 23:35:24 GMT -5
I counted 8 bone in meals, 2 meals with heart (plus commercial ground has heart?), and an organ day (commercial ground has organs too). I think the variety is good. Looks good to me!! If you notice that they didn't eat a lot of bone one meal, just add a meal or two extra of bone. I usually do 9 meals bone in, and sometimes 10 if the meal is not very boney (thighs for example). Watch the stools too - too firm and dry means too much bone. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2011 0:06:36 GMT -5
I counted 8 bone in meals, 2 meals with heart (plus commercial ground has heart?), and an organ day (commercial ground has organs too). I think the variety is good. Looks good to me!! If you notice that they didn't eat a lot of bone one meal, just add a meal or two extra of bone. I usually do 9 meals bone in, and sometimes 10 if the meal is not very boney (thighs for example). Watch the stools too - too firm and dry means too much bone. Thanks Jackie! I might throw another meal of pork button bones (Turns out I have a ton more than I thought once I got it all packaged) just for good measure. But great to know about how to tell if they're getting too much bone! The commercial ground does have organ and heart too I believe and for the "lamb" and "goat" meals I feed diced meat with a bit of commercial ground which also contains heart and organ. But I figure that the commercial doesn't have enough heart and organ to cut back their heart and organ meals any. Would this be correct? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2011 0:27:03 GMT -5
Yes the commercial alone wouldn't provide enough heart or organ. And you can't overdo the heart too much (aside from dark stools) so you're good on that Do you have stool issues on the heart and organ day? If so, separate them and feed a bone in meat before or after the heart and organ. Pixie had some tummy issues with liver days so it had to be divided up into small meals. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2011 0:41:50 GMT -5
Yes the commercial alone wouldn't provide enough heart or organ. And you can't overdo the heart too much (aside from dark stools) so you're good on that Do you have stool issues on the heart and organ day? If so, separate them and feed a bone in meat before or after the heart and organ. Pixie had some tummy issues with liver days so it had to be divided up into small meals. I was having some heart/organ icky poop issues the first few times they had them as full meals but the girls poop have been really good on the heart/organ day the past 2 times and as long as feed a really good bone-in meal right afterwards their poop is recovering much quicker (this was definitely a problem at the beginning though) so I think they're okay with it for now. However I am going to try add some beef heart and beef liver in so I'm thinking I might have to do just that and split it if that causes upset. |
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Post by Heather on Jun 19, 2011 1:51:20 GMT -5
Sounds to me like you've got a good foundation of knowledge there. You know what you need to do to get a positive end result. Great stuff. There is nothing that says you have to feed a whole meal of organ meat all at once. You can space it out over the week if you find that your guys have a hard time with the richness of the organ meats all at once. My guys get it throughout the week. There is no real reason any more (used to do it for Ghenghis and Pooka who would get squirty poos after eating a meal of straight organ meats. I now feed it mixed in with their muscle meat (I've got a couple who are really picky and won't eat liver and another couple who will eat everyone elses...that's just as messy  ) ciao |
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