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Post by BiteMarks on Jul 18, 2018 9:47:34 GMT -5
Okay people I think I’m onto something here.
Let me go back to the beginning.
ive had my 8 month old hob for 2 months. His old owners couldn’t handle his aggression and sold him to me, because he wasn’t getting enough attention to be happy. He had been bottle fed and would only allow himself to be handled by certain people, mainly the father.
Within a week he was sterilised and nip training begun (gentle scuffing supporting his bum, his too heavy to ‘c grip’.. his fat covers his face in that grip.. also time outs) and although his become quite attached to me and happy, his aggression never went away. His a big boy, and his bites draw blood, when he means business his not kidding.
His started hissing constantly as a means of communication. Hissing because he can’t get on something, hissing in bed, hissing to be picked up, hissing when playing.
His is not like any other ferret I’ve met. His dopey, a bit slow (always dawdling, never racing or bounding), eats anything, has no skill or strength, can’t jump. His pretty useless at most ferret stuff, in his gorgeous way.
My partner wants to return him to his old home, deciding his just mean and a lost cause. I would never, I’m committed to him, but it makes me sad that they don’t bond.
His biting genuinely seems like his trying to tell me something, whether it’s that his boss, or that his frustrated, somethings up. And his attitude isn’t budging, besides that he seems happy. Underneath it his a lovely ferret.
when I was reading about this, I starting reading about deaf ferrets and ferrets with a spectrum of retardation. It was really fitting the bill. His clumsy, often confused, his behaviour was never corrected, he makes unusual sounds, sleeps very deeply and his big and stocky.
What do you think, how do I tackle this guy? What am I missing?
I love his bizarre personality but the constant wounds aren’t a plus, Biting can’t be his go to behaviour for everything.
Thanks,
Me
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Post by BiteMarks on Jul 18, 2018 9:52:52 GMT -5
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Post by LindaM on Jul 18, 2018 11:54:30 GMT -5
Do not scruff for discipline, we do not condone that at all. Gentle or not, scruffing has it's time and purpose: for medical reasons like vet visit, offering medicines, health checks, etc.
Scruffing to discipline will not only confuse, but can make dominant ferrets act out even more and become more aggressive, some can even turn into fear biters because of it.
Time-outs, of no more than 3 minutes in an entirely EMPTY carrier or cage is usually the best approach. It can take a while for the message to stick for some and it might seem like they spend more time in there than elsewhere some days. They bite, they go in. If they come out and bite right away, they go right back in. Everyone who deals with the ferret should use this method and stick to it. If anyone does different, the ferret will either get confused, or just learn which humans make better targets.
Swapped vocals are often a sign of deaf ferrets. Have you tried to test if he is deaf? Use a squeaker toy while sitting very still and not where he can see it eg. do it behind your back, if he responds to it, he is probably not deaf, but if he ignores it entirely he could be deaf. Have you ever noticed him respond to sounds that he couldn't feel the vibrations of?
Also, for some ferrets 2 months isn't super long. My rescue that I got earlier this year, is only now starting to give my arm licks here and there vs being quite neutral and STILL refuses giving face kisses like he'd pick up a plague.
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Post by msav on Jul 18, 2018 15:40:13 GMT -5
I have 2 wardies. I have owned 3. The are definitely different to train. My 3 have been different degrees of what you are describing. I had them all from 8 weeks and had to nip train. The nip train differently. They can't hear you so saying no just make you feel better. Scruffing could work If the ferret is submissive but there are lots of bad side effects to scruffing. If it is a dominating ferret scruffing just starts the dominance competition and will make biting and attacking more aggressive and worse.
My bite training for wardies that worked on my 3. Is the use of stuffed animals. I will keep one close always and when a bit happens the stuffed animal goes in his face and he gets put on the floor. If he does not take aggression out on the stuffed animal and continues to pursue you He will get the stuffed animal and put into his cage for time out.
Even to this day. (5 years old) they will still jump an a stuffed animal and give it the business. They are the most gentle beasts. They now know better.
Establishing a communication method with your deaf aggressive ferrets is the first and most important step. It also can be the most difficult. They are all different and wardies are in a whole other realm of different.
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Post by Heather on Jul 18, 2018 16:56:53 GMT -5
He sounds like my Minion I. Chomps. Inappropriate responses bad biting habits, no bite inhibition.....and hissed at everything. he hissed because he was happy, hungry, having fun with his besty Atreyu (patient old sod, because Minion was confusing). I never heard him dook for close to 3 yrs...maybe....discovered when he was dooking anything and everything better duck because he was on the hunt and when he caught it he was going to kill it. If you got in the way, he'd rip into you. Minion did have neural crest issues but he did not seem to be deaf. It was weird. He may have been deaf to certain levels. He startled horribly and I don't know how many times he tried to crush his bulk into a 4" tube but really didn't fit because he was startled. Minion was a rescue straight out of a pet store. No, I paid no money, I did have to sign a waiver stating I would not at any time hold the store or it's employees responsible for his behaviour or his ill health. By the time I got him they'd left him with a prolapse...huge prolapse for almost 2 weeks. Poor wee mite was in agony and required surgery. Even though the surgeon was amazing, he never was able to totally fix Minions nether regions so they functioned properly....things had a habit of just falling out. In the end, we found out that Minion was blind...he saw nothing forward, but probably could see shapes or shadows out of the side. Something about retina damage. So he would bite, if he saw what he thought was a threat. Have you had the wee lad checked out by a vet, not just for his desexing but a general full checkup. We only checked his eyes because we were checking his ears. There was no clue just by looking at him. What I did notice later (always great when you know what to look for after the fact) was in photos, the flashback, was blue, reflecting off a dead lense. There was no other way to see it. Looking at him he looked normal. I can't show any pics because I would guess they're gone now....they were ransomed by photobucket  ciao |
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Post by Blue on Jul 18, 2018 21:09:27 GMT -5
I just wanted to say, I always love your stories, Heather. I'm laughing at the idea of poor Minion trying to squeeze into a too small tube. Poor baby  |
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Post by BiteMarks on Jul 18, 2018 21:23:45 GMT -5
I will get him checked out and do some little deaf tests today.
The toy is a good idea, I’ll give that a go.
Heather your poor ferret! I used to work at a pet shop and they were absolutely horrible. They never took responsibility for anything, and so many animals died from fixable issues. It broke my heart throwing them into the bin (yep..the bin) like they meant nothing.
I don’t know the type of life my ferret had before me, but I knew people were frightened of him and probably didn’t handle it in any healthy way, he ended up mostly left in a cage.
I didn’t explain the scruffing well. It’s my version of the ‘c grip’, where I hold his bottom on my hands and hold his neck up in a sort of supported scruff hold only so that he is able to see my face and relax. It isn’t hard enough for him to even register it as a scruff, or to pull on his skin. Sometimes(more than not) I’ll even hold him under the under arms or hold my fingers across his shoulders.. I’m just supporting his upper body so he can see me say no.
Are vets good at diagnosing wardies or defects? Did you change their lifestyles at all?
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Post by BiteMarks on Jul 18, 2018 21:54:44 GMT -5
I didn’t think that of course a lot of the time when I’m talking to him I’m not looking at him, and if he can’t hear me well it must be so confusing!
A lot of the time his aggression seems like misplaced confusion. He is my 5th ferret (I have 2 at the moment).. so I’m fair from an expert. and I’ve never dealt with his behaviour before. So I guess I’m pretty confused too, we’re a lost pair.
It makes me think that when I got him sterilised, some of his glue came undone and he bled quite a bit. I took him to the emergency vet, who was less concerned about the bleeding (that was stopping) and more concerned about how lethargic and dopey his was. They suggested it was low blood sugar and fed him and sent me on my way. Both vets commented in what a ‘personality’ he had, assuming that he did not take handling well, the emergency vet even said they couldn’t do any testing because he was too aggressive. They were more than happy to hand him back to me and see us leave.
I think that’s also a big part of my partners problem. His first ferret experience was my girl sushi, who is an angel in ferret form. She was a late litter and hadn’t been handled or socialised until I bought her at 3 months as the last kit. Her nip training of a simple ‘no’ and ignore worked a charm, she bonded immediately and now is the snuggliest, happiest ferret on the planet. My partner was expecting the same when we got my hobgoblin, he was so excited and had done so much research. Then his hand got ripped open and his opinion completely changed. He didn’t understand why the ferret was so stubborn, and because he was a lot bigger than little sushi his bites really hurt. He decided that they just don’t like each other, and that little hobby was a bully. He keeps trying to convince me to take him back and get a different, easier ferret. I’m less frightened of being bitten, I know it’s not just out of evil intentions. I see that hobby is a gorgeous boy, who cuddles and cares and plays in his own unique way. I could never give him up, even if his not what I expected. His loves my girl sushi, and she is so patient with him.
I did enjoy sharing my love of ferrets with him, and it sucks it didn’t go to plan and he can’t be patient to get to know Hob. He still bonds with Sushi which is nice.
I think Hobgoblin will be going to the vet for a proper check over.
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Post by Blue on Jul 18, 2018 22:01:16 GMT -5
I'm so glad you're not giving him up. Thank you for taking care of this little guy. I think he will calm down a lot once you've figured out his issues and have worked on them. A lot of times these kind of ferrets end up being real lovers.
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Post by BiteMarks on Jul 18, 2018 22:13:13 GMT -5
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Post by Blue on Jul 18, 2018 22:24:18 GMT -5
Aww, he is absolutely adorable. I think you can forgive that little face (and belly!) anything  |
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Post by Heather on Jul 19, 2018 2:50:36 GMT -5
What an adorable wee mite <3
I found out that the people at the pet store had done whisker pulls and nose flicks on Minion and those were the disciplines they'd admit to. I'm sure that there were other things done considering the looks that were exchanged. They were afraid of him. Poor wee mite, according to his paper work he was not 8 weeks old when he came in and 2 months old when he was surrendered to me.
ciao
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Post by Sherry on Jul 19, 2018 9:52:59 GMT -5
What a sweet looking wee lad. Do you have any idea of how he was treated at his old home? It sounds like he may be having a fear response. One of my girls came to me a bad biter. Also deaf. Same reason- nose flicks and whisker pulls at the very least. It took a long time for her to completely trust. For fear biters you have to teach them hands will never hurt them again, no matter what they do. Even if your "scruff" is very gentle, it can bring up older memories of when it DID hurt.
For Willow I used oil. Every single time I could handle her(we started with a second or so, with the bottle of oil directly in front of her mouth), she got a lick or two. If she whipped around to bite she got put down immediately and no oil. We did this several times a day. She started to learn if she wanted the oil, she couldn't bite.
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