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Post by LindaM on May 14, 2018 22:16:51 GMT -5
Sorry, I haven't been on for a while, I'm pretty preoccupied at home dealing with some issues lately and haven't really had the time to be on the forum. So, the soup recipe, you can really use any protein you feel like for the muscle portion, so if you wanna do some beef or pork or turkey or whatever, feel free to do so. A note about beef though, it is a very strong smelling and tasting protein, so some ferrets might give you more fuss with it at first. I know for my bunch it is their most hated protein, but on the contrary for my friend's ferret crew it's a beloved protein instead. Yes, you can take their kibble away entirely, as long as you are sure you can get several ounces of food spooned into them each day to be sure they ate enough. With some ferrets the access to kibble can slow them in their acceptance of raw, so removing the kibble can help at times, and as long as you can get enough raw into them every day, it should be just fine. I also noticed you mention that their stools are a bit wet, on raw their poops will be wetter than kibble, but if it seems on the runnier side, you can up your bone meal amount in the soup to 3/4tsp versus the 1/2tsp.
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Post by raven on May 15, 2018 2:07:26 GMT -5
Akira is being very reluctant these days, though neither are really happily eating at this point. I have to sppon feed still or they wont eat, sometimes I can let them go and they will eat but more than half I usually have to hold them as well they are starting to east bigger slivers around 4-6 though they don't seem to happy about them and not keen on eating multiple that size. (still has to be in soup/grind mixture. they both seem to have lost weight this week which seems a little worrisome but i'm not sure what's normal for them either. 1. Ferret's name: Akira 2. Ferret's weight:763 3. Ferret's Daily Medications: None 4. Ferret has eaten Kibble available at night. 3 tablespoons of raw soup. 5. Stools are a bit wet. 6. Activity levels: normal play day. 7. Weekly menu: Monday: Wysong, raw soup 1. Ferret's name: Usagi 2. Ferret's weight:918 3. Ferret's Daily Medications: None 4. Ferret has eaten Kibble available at night. 4 tablespoons of raw soup. 5. Stools are a bit wet. 6. Activity levels: normal play day 7. Weekly menu: Monday: Wysong, raw soup
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Post by raven on May 15, 2018 2:21:58 GMT -5
No worries LindaM all of you mentors and those in training provide such a wonderful service, totally understandable when you have to go off grid for a bit. I hope things ease up for you soon. Seeing how they have lost some weight I'm not feeling nearly as confident about going no kibble anymore. They ate the soup with the beef liver pretty much like they did the chicken but I think i'll do all chicken again for the next mix just to see if they have a different reaction.
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Post by LindaM on May 15, 2018 16:18:10 GMT -5
Thanks for understanding. Okay, looking at their recent dangle pictures, it doesn't appear too bad. Akira definitely seems a little skinnier than Usagi, and has lost a bit more than Usagi checking back to their original starting weights. Seeing some weight fluctuations are pretty common during a switch, and at the change of seasons you'll definitely note changes in their weight and eating habits, in winter ferrets will pick up some extra fat because they will eat more, and in the spring and summer they tend to slim down and lose weight as their appetites decrease. How many times a day are you currently sitting with them and trying to feed them? And at what times do you typically try to feed them? A good time to offer some food to them would be after a good play session with them, which can help build their appetites a bit. Ideally, I'd like them to be a bit more interested in eating the raw by themselves before switching to an entirely new protein, since that does have a chance of throwing them off too. For now, let's try that before we look into taking the kibble away from them or offer a new protein, especially since they are acting a bit fussy with food right now. I do worry a bit that they won't eat quite enough until they are a bit more acceptant of the raw.
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Post by raven on May 15, 2018 17:24:35 GMT -5
LindaM I try to feed them 2-3 times a day sometimes 4 but not usually. So somewhere between 12-3pm I try to feed them at that time they are either just waking up or had been playing for a while they will eat about 1-2 ounces before calling quits. Then I don't usually try to feed again until 10-10:30pm but if they wake up in between that time I might try them again if i do the best I get is half an ounce or maybe 1 ounce. At 10-10:30pm I either wake them up to eat or they are already up and again they will eat about 1-2 ounces before getting really flighty. And then about 12-2am I might try one more time before bed it's not common for them to want it, and then when i'm doing cleaning up and actually going to bed i'll put some kibble in their bowl. And then I always leave out a little of the soup during the day but they never eat it. I think that's all a good idea I made them a new batch of soup using that standard recipe, very little water, and I did go ahead and add some extra bone meal because their poops do seem to get runnier as the days go by. So i'll stick with that till we pick things back up. Akira use to be the good eater but now Usagi seems to be the better eater. They are both 6 months old now and I believe from the same litter but Usagi suddenly became much bigger than Akira overall maybe since 2-3 weeks ago. I'm wondering if I should still be expecting them to eat the similar amounts of food?
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Post by raven on May 16, 2018 22:55:59 GMT -5
Weird I could have sworn I posted Tuesdays but I don't see it so I put both here.
1. Ferret's name: Akira 2. Ferret's weight: 3. Ferret's Daily Medications: None 4. Tuesday Ferret has eaten Kibble available at night 4 tablespoons of raw soup, finger tip of salmon oil. Wednesday Ferret has eaten Kibble available at night 5 tablespoons of raw soup. 5. Stools are a bit wet. 6. Activity levels: normal play day. 7. Weekly menu:
Monday: Wysong, raw soup Tuesday: Wysong, raw soup, Salmon oil Wednesday: Wysong, raw soup
1. Ferret's name: Usagi 2. Ferret's weight: 3. Ferret's Daily Medications: None 4. Tuesday Ferret has eaten Kibble available at night 4 tablespoons of raw soup, finger tip of salmon oil. Wednesday Ferret has eaten Kibble available at night 5 tablespoons of raw soup. 5. Stools are a bit wet. 6. Activity levels: normal play day 7. Weekly menu:
Monday: Wysong, raw soup Tuesday: Wysong, raw soup, Salmon oil Wednesday: Wysong, raw soup
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Post by raven on May 17, 2018 22:12:52 GMT -5
1. Ferret's name: Akira 2. Ferret's weight: 3. Ferret's Daily Medications: None 4. Ferret has eaten Kibble available at night, 5 tablespoons of raw soup. 5. Stools are a bit wet but have shape. 6. Activity levels: normal play day. 7. Weekly menu:
Monday: Wysong, raw soup Tuesday: Wysong, raw soup, Salmon oil Wednesday: Wysong, raw soup Thursday: Wysong, raw soup
1. Ferret's name: Usagi 2. Ferret's weight: 3. Ferret's Daily Medications: None 4. Ferret has eaten Kibble available at night, 5 tablespoons of raw soup. 5. Stools are a bit wet but have shape. 6. Activity levels: normal play day 7. Weekly menu:
Monday: Wysong, raw soup Tuesday: Wysong, raw soup, Salmon oil Wednesday: Wysong, raw soup Thursday: Wysong, raw soup
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Post by LindaM on May 18, 2018 12:10:02 GMT -5
They are Marshall's right? If that's the case, there is really zero guarantee they are from the same litter at all, even when bought at the same time at a single store. Marshall's just rounds up all the kits, divvy them out into crates and send them off to the stores. Ferrets also have various body builds, some are whippet, some are bulldog. I actually have a nice little variety of body types in my own crew, believe me, it can still sometimes drive you to gray hairs at the switching of seasons, no matter how used to it you get. As for eating similar, no two ferrets are exactly alike. They all have their own quirks, and that also includes how much they eat. I don't think either of my 5 actually eat the exact same amounts. You can still offer the same if it is easier (as long as nobody is going underfed), but don't expect exact results. So, when you are feeding them, may I ask how you go about doing it? Do you force the spoon on them? Do you just hold the spoon near their faces? If at all possible, a video of how you offer the food to them would be really insightful as well. Also, I'm just trying to make sure I understand the numbers above. How much of the raw are the girls consuming combined per day? Two and a half ounces to five ounces, counting from which you have listed from the feedings, is it each or between the two of them?
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Post by raven on May 18, 2018 22:08:29 GMT -5
Example of a good day:
Example of a flighty day:
So feeding goes like this i'll bring the food over usually on the cold side. i'll let them sniff it a bit they usually walk off after smelling so i'll pull them back and kind of give them a quick dab at their face with the spoon covered in soup so that the soup is touching their face not the spoon, usually these days it only takes one good dab and they start eating. On a good day I don't really have to hold them they just start eating and I'll slowly lower the spoon either into a bowl or on a plate or whatever flat surface i'm using, Akira really likes eating off the floor... even more than a saucer so i've been using cardboard. I usually clean most stuff they can have contact with with white vinegar but i'd still rather her not eat directly off the floor lol. When I do get them to eat hands free it doesn't usually last long they will eat maybe a tablespoon and then I have to go back to holding them and or dabbing them. On a not so good day I use the same method but because i'm unable to feed them without them running off i'll generally hold them in my lap depending on how flighty they are, and just keep them eating in my lap dabbing them again every time they start to lose interest, if they seem really stressed I let them walk for a bit and then try again.
They are marshals I had a feeling there was a chance they weren't from the same litter. So that all makes sense to me.
As for the numbers I feed and record them separately so each section is for that ferret only. Right now it's easiest for me to do by the tablespoon since that's what i'm using to feed them until they start eating on their own. and over the past few days i've been getting each girl to eat 5 tablespoons a day meaning Usagi will eat 5 tables spoons / 2.5 ounces a day And Akira will eat 5 tables spoons / 2.5 ounces a day. And some Days Akira will eat less so her meal record would be less that Usagi. No records at this point have been combined
1. Ferret's name: Akira 2. Ferret's weight: 3. Ferret's Daily Medications: None 4. Ferret has eaten Kibble available at night, 5 tablespoons of raw soup. 5. Stools are a bit wet but have shape. 6. Activity levels: normal play day. 7. Weekly menu:
Monday: Wysong, raw soup Tuesday: Wysong, raw soup, Salmon oil Wednesday: Wysong, raw soup Thursday: Wysong, raw soup Friday: Wysong, raw soup
1. Ferret's name: Usagi 2. Ferret's weight: 3. Ferret's Daily Medications: None 4. Ferret has eaten Kibble available at night, 5 tablespoons of raw soup. 5. Stools are a bit wet but have shape. 6. Activity levels: normal play day 7. Weekly menu:
Monday: Wysong, raw soup Tuesday: Wysong, raw soup, Salmon oil Wednesday: Wysong, raw soup Thursday: Wysong, raw soup Friday: Wysong, raw soup
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Post by raven on May 19, 2018 22:22:06 GMT -5
1. Ferret's name: Akira 2. Ferret's weight: 3. Ferret's Daily Medications: None 4. Ferret has eaten Kibble available at night, 5 tablespoons of raw soup. 5. Stools are a bit wet but have shape. 6. Activity levels: normal play day. 7. Weekly menu:
Monday: Wysong, raw soup Tuesday: Wysong, raw soup, Salmon oil Wednesday: Wysong, raw soup Thursday: Wysong, raw soup Friday: Wysong, raw soup Saturday: Wysong, raw soup
1. Ferret's name: Usagi 2. Ferret's weight: 3. Ferret's Daily Medications: None 4. Ferret has eaten Kibble available at night, 5 tablespoons of raw soup. 5. Stools are a bit wet but have shape. 6. Activity levels: normal play day 7. Weekly menu:
Monday: Wysong, raw soup Tuesday: Wysong, raw soup, Salmon oil Wednesday: Wysong, raw soup Thursday: Wysong, raw soup Friday: Wysong, raw soup Saturday: Wysong, raw soup
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Post by raven on May 20, 2018 22:26:04 GMT -5
1. Ferret's name: Akira 2. Ferret's weight: 3. Ferret's Daily Medications: None 4. Ferret has eaten Kibble available at night, 5 tablespoons of raw soup. 5. Stools are a bit wet but have shape. 6. Activity levels: normal play day. 7. Weekly menu:
Monday: Wysong, raw soup Tuesday: Wysong, raw soup, Salmon oil Wednesday: Wysong, raw soup Thursday: Wysong, raw soup Friday: Wysong, raw soup Saturday: Wysong, raw soup Sunday: Wysong, raw soup
1. Ferret's name: Usagi 2. Ferret's weight: 3. Ferret's Daily Medications: None 4. Ferret has eaten Kibble available at night, 5 tablespoons of raw soup. 5. Stools are a bit wet but have shape. 6. Activity levels: normal play day 7. Weekly menu:
Monday: Wysong, raw soup Tuesday: Wysong, raw soup, Salmon oil Wednesday: Wysong, raw soup Thursday: Wysong, raw soup Friday: Wysong, raw soup Saturday: Wysong, raw soup Sunday: Wysong, raw soup
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Post by raven on May 21, 2018 23:23:19 GMT -5
looks like we've put on some weight from last week and we've been averaging about 5 tablespoons(2.5oz) a day per ferret not including their kibble at night, I actually just realized I could have been weighing their kibble this whole time to see how much they were eating. No one is eating the raw on their own yet but Usagi has been less reluctant overall, Akira was today but she's been pretty flighty the rest of the week. We've been following the usual raw soup recipe but I've been using little to no water at this point so it's more like mashed potatoes than soup. They still aren't a fan of the chunks but will eat them if they are in the "soup" sizes about 1-5 maybe anything larger they try to run off with it and then they spit it out lol. If I don't let them run then they just spit it out either way. 1. Ferret's name: Akira 2. Ferret's weight: 802g 3. Ferret's Daily Medications: None 4. Ferret has eaten Kibble available at night, 5 tablespoons of raw soup, finger tip of salmon oil. 5. Stools are a bit wet but have shape. 6. Activity levels: normal play day. 7. Weekly menu: Monday: Wysong, raw soup, Salmon oil 1. Ferret's name: Usagi 2. Ferret's weight:963g 3. Ferret's Daily Medications: None 4. Ferret has eaten Kibble available at night, 5 tablespoons of raw soup.A little more than a fingertip of salmon oil 5. Stools are a bit wet but have shape. 6. Activity levels: normal play day 7. Weekly menu: Monday: Wysong, raw soup, Salmon oil
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Post by LindaM on May 22, 2018 16:09:37 GMT -5
I'm sorry I haven't been on here. We've been dealing with more drama than usual at home this last while. Loki somehow got a really nasty laceration near his little penis on Friday morning, so we had to emergency rush him to a vet to get it sutured and I have since had my hands pretty full taking care of him and keeping him still and relaxed so he doesn't pull out his stitches while still letting him have some out of cage time to see the others.
Their weights are looking fine.
I've had some time to look over the videos. What dish do you normally use to feed them from? I have really flat stainless bowls from a restaurant supply that my lot are fine with, but many ferrets prefer something as flat as possible, such as a plate. Instead of using cardboard, how about some really flat plastic plates? Those would be reusable and easy to run through the dishwasher to sanitize. Also, eating from the floor will not harm them at all, other than make a bit of a mess for you to clean. But if you are worried about it being dirty or bacteria from it, their little bodies are built to handle it.
When they are eating good like the video with Usagi, make sure you have the food dish you are using with food nearby. For example, if I had to do this with mine, I would have their bowl right by my legs and I would take just a bit on a spoon from there to get them eating and licking at it, and as they are focused on that, start lowering the spoon back into the amount of food that will be in their bowl.
With the video of Akira, on a day how they exhibit being flighty like that, after about 2 maybe 3 tries, I would just let her go. It could be that she isn't quite hungry yet at that stage, or feels she has something better she'd rather do first. Have her play around a little to build up an appetite, and then try again. That way she doesn't feel forced or start feeling that it is a bad experience and make her refuse it.
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Post by raven on May 22, 2018 17:42:23 GMT -5
LindaM No worries, that does sound like a handful, I hope Loki heals up quickly! I hate when a pet has to get stitches I just feel so sorry for them having to be so limited until they heal. Normally I've been trying to use these small bowls that attach to the cage but as you mentioned I started to notice they seem to prefer flat surfaces or at least Akira really does so I started using the cardboard thinking I could transition them back to the bowl from there I have a ton of boxes so I just throw away the bard when I'm done with it. I have tried some tiny plates but they just flip them over or scoot them around the room lol. If the floors not a bad thing I think I might just start feeding them that way, if it's not one mess it's another, as long as it gets the job done, works for me. (I decided to use one of these super thin plastic cutting boards I picked up yesterday, kinda smooth on top and grippy on the bottom, so they shouldn't be able to push it around much.) We've been getting pretty good at starting to eat, I even walked away from Usagi today for a second or two and came back and she was still eating from the spoon on the floor, but maybe after that first table spoon that's when they start getting flighty. I was wondering if anyone has left raw food out on an ice pack or something that way it stays fresher for longer when it's sitting out. Thanks for the tips.
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Post by raven on May 22, 2018 23:26:13 GMT -5
So they ate less raw today because I didn't fed them as aggressively as usual, but hopefully tomorrow will be better since I have a new game plan. I also noticed some rice in their poop today they have pooped without rice in it since though. The rice came from their rice box i've never seen them deliberately eat any but they have been napping in there lately so perhaps they are cleaning themselves and that's how it's getting in, or maybe just from playing? How worried should I be?
1. Ferret's name: Akira 2. Ferret's weight: 3. Ferret's Daily Medications: None 4. Ferret has eaten Kibble available at night, 3.5 tablespoons of raw soup 5. Stools are a bit wet but have shape But I did notice some rice in their poop earlier. 6. Activity levels: normal play day. 7. Weekly menu:
Monday: Wysong, raw soup, Salmon oil Tuesday: Wysong, Raw soup
1. Ferret's name: Usagi 2. Ferret's weight: 3. Ferret's Daily Medications: None 4. Ferret has eaten Kibble available at night, 3.5 tablespoons of raw soup 5. Stools are a bit wet but have shape But I did notice some rice in their poop earlier. 6. Activity levels: normal play day 7. Weekly menu:
Monday: Wysong, raw soup, Salmon oil Tuesday: Wysong, Raw soup
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