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Post by raven on Apr 11, 2018 15:13:19 GMT -5
My 5 month old female ferrets were raised on marshals I've only had them for about a week now and i've been trying to switch them to Wysong, I did try to give them a few raw things just to try but they had no interest. I figured I should just switch to Wysong while I wait to get a mentor. Because i'm really worried about not feeding them correctly on my own. But it was recommended to me to start an unofficial switch till then to get a jump start on the raw process. I don't have all the supplies for raw soup right now but i'm working on getting those items asap. Some starting questions I have are: - is it a good to keep a little wysong in their diet in case of some weird emergency where raw can not be obtained?
- Scruff and taste seems to be the usual method but my ferrets seem to be rather flighty, in my quest to find them a treat for rewards i've scuffed and tasted them egg yokes, salmon oil, boiled chicken, raw beef, raw chicken, a "duck soup" of water from the boiled chicken, egg yoke, and marshals food through out the day and they fight it every time. It hasn't been long though so perhaps it will eventually work?
- When I do start the raw soup on the days it doesn't work do I still feed them kibble as normal?
- If they do eat the soup is that their meal for the day(Morning/night)?
- How much are they supposed to have? 10% of their weight?
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Post by LindaM on Apr 11, 2018 15:54:03 GMT -5
So, I'm gonna try and address these questions in order. 1. It's always good to have a back-up, but kibble as your back-up may not work out. First, some ferrets after switching will simply avoid kibble entirely, others may backtrack in their switch and try to hold out for kibble and refuse the raw. So it's not the best idea. Instead, when switched onto raw and in an emergency for a meal, I've found keeping a bag of FDR (Freeze-Dried Raw) can be very helpful. Keep track of your raw stock in the freezer, make sure meals are portioned ahead of time, so you just thaw and feed, that way there's less risk of waste or forgetting thawing meat and needing to toss if it went bad. 2. Scruff'n'Stuff can be very helpful, but there are other "friendlier" methods you can try first, especially if you haven't worked on making scruffing be a nice and rewarding experience yet. I suggest the Grab'n'Dab. I'll type it below all this. The key is always patience and persistence, praise also goes a long way. 3. You start the raw soup and work on getting them to taste it using Grab'n'Dab, get them to the point they'll lick it off your finger, then eat off a spoon, then lower the spoon in the bowl/plate and let them eat from that. Once the ferret eats the raw soup by themselves without you helping in any way, you can get rid of kibble for good. Until then, still offer some kibble for short intervals in the day/night. If you can get them to eat several ounces of soup each day, it should be okay too. 4. Your babies are still kits, they need a lot of food and available at all times. Either offer them 3-4 meals a day, or offer two, but then with just the AM and PM meal, make sure you offer enough food that there's just a bite or two left by the time you change the meals, else someone might be going hungry. 5. The adult female eats on average 1-3oz of food per day. The adult male ferret eats on average 2-5oz per day. Kits will eat up to 4x that amount, they do slow down some as they age. The start of a raw switch will also usually see ferrets eat more at first. Soups and grinds are easier to eat and they'll eat more, and less as they have to work for food such as shearing off meat chunks and crushing bones. Seasons play a role, in the winter ferrets will eat more and pick up a little chub (up to 40% bodyweight), but in spring and summer they eat less and lose some weight (up to 40% bodyweight). I'm gonna link to the Intro to Raw, you should read through it carefully. Feel free to ask any more questions that pop up or ask for help if you get stuck. We're here to help. holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/17480/intro-raw-newbies-readGrab'n'Dab Method Grab your ferret and place them in your lap. Dip your finger in the soup/oil or pick up the piece of meat. Dab onto your ferrets mouth/nose/gums. Wait a moment for them to start licking themselves clean. Release them.
NOTE: This method requires patience and persistence. It may take several tries before they will start willingly licking from your finger/the item. You can practice this method throughout your day or even in smaller sessions of 20-30 minutes, dabbing every 5 minutes.
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Post by raven on Apr 12, 2018 0:05:35 GMT -5
Thank you LindaM this is really helpful. Grab'n'Dab does sound nicer especially for the reason you mentioned. I'm looking forward to raw soup being rubbed all over my lap in protest lol.
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Post by LindaM on Apr 12, 2018 0:16:47 GMT -5
Haha! Not gonna lie.. that could happen. Also, be prepared later on that you may receive the face-cleaning on your body parts as a "Thank you" for the yummy foods. Our lot believe it's the best thank you to have them stick their dirty little faces down your shorts by your butt and rub. Nasty little weasels. Also, since you're not familiar with that behavior, yes, they will rub their faces on the carpet to clean themselves. I provide my lot with a towel on which they can clean. Let us know how the soupies go, and don't get discouraged if they don't take to it straight away. Just keep on trying!
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Post by raven on May 2, 2018 21:53:15 GMT -5
We're finally getting started on raw, Akira is doing better than I thought she would, Usagi is not pleased as expected lol. 1. Ferret's name: Akira 2. Ferret's weight:789g 3. Ferret's Daily Medications: None 4. Ferret has eaten Kibble available at all times. 5. Stools are even color and consistency but slightly wetter than when she was on marshals diet. 6. Activity levels: Normal play day 7. Weekly menu: Monday: Wysong Tuesday: Wysong Wednesday: Wysong and a tablespoon of raw soup. 1. Ferret's name: Usagi 2. Ferret's weight:925g 3. Ferret's Daily Medications: None 4. Ferret has eaten Kibble available at all times. 5. Stools are even color and consistency but slightly wetter than when she was on marshals diet. 6. Activity levels: Normal play day 7. Weekly menu: Monday: Wysong Tuesday: Wysong Wednesday: Wysong (fought and mostly wiped off any soup I tired to give her.)
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Post by raven on May 3, 2018 23:39:43 GMT -5
Day 2 going strong lots of fighting from Usagi but she finally started taking soup some from the spoon I was expecting a much slower progression from her.
1. Ferret's name: Akira 2. Ferret's weight: 3. Ferret's Daily Medications: None 4. Ferret has eaten Kibble available at all times. 2-3 tablespoons of raw soup. 5. Stools are even color and consistency but slightly wetter than when she was on marshals diet. 6. Activity levels: Normal play day 7. Weekly menu:
Monday: Wysong Tuesday: Wysong Wednesday: Wysong and a tablespoon of raw soup. Thursday: Wysong and 2-3 tablespoons of raw soup. A finger tip dab of salmon oil.
1. Ferret's name: Usagi 2. Ferret's weight: 3. Ferret's Daily Medications: None 4. Ferret has eaten Kibble available at all times, about 1 tablespoon of raw soup 5. Stools are even color and consistency but slightly wetter than when she was on marshals diet. 6. Activity levels: Normal play day 7. Weekly menu:
Monday: Wysong Tuesday: Wysong Wednesday: Wysong (fought and mostly wiped off any soup I tired to give her.) A finger tip dab of salmon oil. Thursday: Wysong and a reluctant tablespoon of raw soup. A finger tip dab of salmon oil.
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Post by raven on May 4, 2018 23:30:02 GMT -5
Both still needing to be held and fed but eating neither less. Neither wanted to be weighed today even with salmon oil so the weight is a little rounded. 1. Ferret's name: Akira 2. Ferret's weight: 788g 3. Ferret's Daily Medications: None 4. Ferret has eaten Kibble available at all times. 2 1/5 tablespoons of raw soup. 5. Stools are a bit wet. 6. Activity levels: Normal play day 7. Weekly menu: Monday: Wysong Tuesday: Wysong Wednesday: Wysong and a tablespoon of raw soup. Thursday: Wysong and 2-3 tablespoons of raw soup. A finger tip dab of salmon oil. Friday: Wysong and 2 1/5 tablespoons of raw soup. 1. Ferret's name: Usagi 2. Ferret's weight: 915g 3. Ferret's Daily Medications: None 4. Ferret has eaten Kibble available at all times, about 2 tablespoon of raw soup 5. Stools are a bit wet. 6. Activity levels: Normal play day 7. Weekly menu: Monday: Wysong Tuesday: Wysong Wednesday: Wysong (fought and mostly wiped off any soup I tired to give her.) A finger tip dab of salmon oil. Thursday: Wysong and a reluctant tablespoon of raw soup. A finger tip dab of salmon oil. Friday: Wysong and 2 tablespoons of raw soup.
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Post by raven on May 6, 2018 23:04:22 GMT -5
Today was a pretty good food day. Akria struggled a bit but finally took to being spoon feed again while on the other hand Usagi started to lick from a saucer. Neither will really start eating right away at this point I still have to dab their faces and then they will start to eat. 1. Ferret's name: Akira 2. Ferret's weight: 788g 3. Ferret's Daily Medications: None 4. Ferret has eaten Kibble available at night. 6 1/2 tablespoons of raw soup. 5. Stools are a bit wet. 6. Activity levels: Normal play day 7. Weekly menu: Monday: Wysong Tuesday: Wysong Wednesday: Wysong and a tablespoon of raw soup. Thursday: Wysong and 2-3 tablespoons of raw soup. A finger tip dab of salmon oil. Friday: Wysong and 2 1/5 tablespoons of raw soup. Saturday: Wysong Sunday: Wysong and 6 1/2 tablespoons of raw soup. 1. Ferret's name: Usagi 2. Ferret's weight: 926g 3. Ferret's Daily Medications: None 4. Ferret has eaten Kibble available at night, about 7 1/2 tablespoon of raw soup 5. Stools are a bit wet. 6. Activity levels: Normal play day 7. Weekly menu: Monday: Wysong Tuesday: Wysong Wednesday: Wysong (fought and mostly wiped off any soup I tired to give her.) A finger tip dab of salmon oil. Thursday: Wysong and a reluctant tablespoon of raw soup. A finger tip dab of salmon oil. Friday: Wysong and 2 tablespoons of raw soup. Saturday: Wysong Sunday: Wysong and 7 1/2 tablespoons of raw soup.
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Post by LindaM on May 6, 2018 23:52:27 GMT -5
You guys are making progress, licking from the saucer is good. Just keep pushing them with the soup. Try going from spoon to bowl to encourage licking from the bowl. For example, as Akira is busy licking the spoon, slowly lower the spoon into the bowl, they should follow the spoon on its journey down, still licking. Then once the food runs out on the spoon, they may continue eating the food surrounding it, or the surrounding food might just pool onto the spoon depending on the consistency, and still let them eat off of it. As they get used to eating from the spoon lowered in the bowl, start working on removing the spoon while they are focused on eating. This will help them get used to eating without the spoon being present.
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Post by raven on May 7, 2018 1:20:53 GMT -5
LindaM I kind of did that method today which got Usagi to drink from the saucer I'm hoping she'll keep at it and then maybe that will influence Akria to start as well. I am really impressed with their improvement so far I was expecting things to be a lot more draining. They even eat the small bits that didn't get souped up all the way. Also could I ask about grinds? How would that fit in the basic fraken prey menu? Or is it even recommended to feed them grinds? I don't have any at the moment but I was curious if I should consider getting some the next time I order more food.
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Post by LindaM on May 7, 2018 13:17:28 GMT -5
Excellent! Okay, so grinds are considered an alternative meal, and this is because you are supposed to PREFERABLY feed only balanced grinds (usually if you do unbalanced grinds it takes a lot of calculation, caution and work to get things balanced again). A balanced grind includes all of the Frankenprey type meals; muscle, bone, heart and organs. So if you feed grinds along with your Frankenprey menu, you need to balance the amount of grind meals, with the amount of remaining Frankenprey meals. Luckily, we have a handy chart to help you with that, I'm gonna link it below, I'll also give an example to help explain it. Alternative & Frankenprey Meal Balancing ChartExample: I want to do 4 grinds meals in the week. I look at the line that says 4 Alt. Meals, then I read horizontally along that line. It says I will have 7 Bone-in meals, 1 Muscle, 1 Heart, and 1 Organ meal. Always double check your math to make sure you didn't miss a meal by accident, 4+7+1+1+1=14 Perfect! Now let's talk about grinds a bit. They have both pros and cons, and it really ends up to each owner to weigh whether or not to do them. Personally, my menu does contain a few grinds meals. PROS:* Can be used as a transitional step in the switching to go from soup to grinds then to slivers * Can help introduce new proteins * Can provide protein variety that might be hard to find regularly or as Frankenprey meals (eg. venison) * Can be used as a balanced diet for older and sickly or ferrets who are entirely incapable of crunching bones anymore * FDR (Freeze Dried Raw) is also considered a form of grinds, and must be rehydrated with water before feeding, but is usually shelf-stable for several months, thus it makes a very convenient emergency back-up method. CONS:* Need to brush ferret teeth several times a week to keep plaque and tartar build-up down, unless several bone-in meals are still provided within the week to help with that * Some ferrets so inclined WILL and CAN overeat on grinds and become overweight * Might make some switches trickier to move on from grinds to bigger pieces eg. meat or bone-in chunks * Expensive form of raw * Not all grinds are balanced. Check for "Whole Ground Animal" in the name or descriptions as these a completely balanced OR grinds containing the following ratio are also balanced: 65-70% Muscle, 10-15% Bone, 10% Heart, and 10% Organs (either half MUST or all of it CAN be liver). Hassles & Need To Knows:* Might need to call or email the manufacturing company to get an idea of the ratios they use, because even if it looks excellent with 100% meat-based, it may not be properly balanced. * Stick to 95% meat-based products or higher, that way you never have more than 5% indigestibles * Canine products usually will not be balanced for a ferret, as they generally do not have sufficient levels of Taurine. This can be remedied by adding some extra pureed hearts. BUT! Many will contain more vegetable/indigestible matter than Feline products too.
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Post by raven on May 7, 2018 14:24:50 GMT -5
Thank you LindaM this was really helpful!
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Post by raven on May 7, 2018 22:48:29 GMT -5
Had some licking from the bowl today but they would quickly lose interest and I could only get them to come back for more with the spoon. Akira was licking from the bowl more than Usagi today.
1. Ferret's name: Akira 2. Ferret's weight: 3. Ferret's Daily Medications: None 4. Ferret has eaten Kibble available at night. 7 tablespoons of raw soup. 5. Stools are a bit wet. 6. Activity levels: Normal play day 7. Weekly menu:
Monday: Wysong, 7 tablespoons of raw.
1. Ferret's name: Usagi 2. Ferret's weight: 3. Ferret's Daily Medications: None 4. Ferret has eaten Kibble available at night. 7 tablespoons of raw soup. 5. Stools are a bit wet. 6. Activity levels: Normal play day 7. Weekly menu:
Monday: Wysong, 7 tablespoons of raw.
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Post by LindaM on May 7, 2018 23:10:52 GMT -5
Keep up with it, sometimes it can take several tries to get it right.
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Post by raven on May 8, 2018 22:58:04 GMT -5
Usagi is still refusing the bowl, Akira is about 50/50. I've been sitting some out in their food bowl for a few hours but no one will touch it so far, sometimes I can just push the spoon to them and they will eat but more often I have to hold them, get them started and then I can let go and they will eat about 2 tablespoons at a time give or take before they are running off or thrashing away. It was about time for me to get a new batch going, I made it just slightly thicker than the first which was probably too watery to be honest.. but it also had slivers of various sizes because I didn't chop the chicken well enough, they didn't mind the slivers though so i'm expecting this thicker batch to be no problem. I also tried to give Usagi some egg today because I heard her cough but she refused that, she usually likes egg, Akira gladly helped herself lol.
1. Ferret's name: Akira 2. Ferret's weight:788g 3. Ferret's Daily Medications: None 4. Ferret has eaten Kibble available at night. 7 tablespoons of raw soup. 2 tablespoons of whole egg 5. Stools are a bit wet. 6. Activity levels: Normal play day. 7. Weekly menu:
Monday: Wysong, 7 tablespoons of raw. Tuesday: Wysong, 7 tablespoons of raw. 2 tablespoons of whole egg.
1. Ferret's name: Usagi 2. Ferret's weight:930g 3. Ferret's Daily Medications: None 4. Ferret has eaten Kibble available at night. 7 1/2 tablespoons of raw soup. 5. Stools are a bit wet. 6. Activity levels: Normal play day. 7. Weekly menu:
Monday: Wysong, 7 tablespoons of raw. Tuesday: Wysong, 7 1/2 tablespoons of raw.
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