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Post by dreamsome on Feb 3, 2011 12:46:57 GMT -5
i had an ultrasound performed on vienna yesterday at the vet- i had taken her to the vet back in october to be checked for her blood sugar and a lump was found. the findings were two tumors, one near the pancreas and the other on the adrenal gland. no further testing was done, and the vet said these tumors most likely pointed to adrenal and insulinoma. she briefly discussed treatment options- she favored prednisone over the others ("treatment"- ha!) but mentioned exploratory surgery and chemotherapy. she said because of the pancreas tumor, she didn't recommend surgery to remove it. i was in a bit of shock and wanted a treatment right away, or at the time what i thought would be an actual treatment, and agreed to the prednisone. after coming home, i've been doing some research along with the article written by bob church (which i found here) and am now completely rethinking the steroids. i don't know how quickly adrenal progresses, and i don't think vienna is even 3 years old, so i'm thinking i'd like to remove the adrenal tumor but leave the pancreas as is- i've read on here where ferrets with insulinoma have lead healthy, happy lives as long as there's medicine to regulate blood sugar! i just can't imagine putting my little girl on this so-called "medicine" that might ease her symptoms until she passes away in a few months. :'(the vet mentioned there's a good chance the adrenal tumor might grow back, but if i get can get a few more happy, healthy years with vienna, i want to take that chance. the only symptoms i've noticed in regards to adrenal are lethargy, drinking more but eating less, and weakened back legs. oh, but she sure can still run with the best of them! no hair loss, either. i need advice big time. she deserves to live much longer and i'm not ready to tuck my tail and accept that this is "it." there has to be more that i can do.
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Post by Heather on Feb 3, 2011 16:37:05 GMT -5
I may be the wrong person to be talking to. I have no use for surgeries involving either of these diseases. Now the concencus is that to leave the pancreatic tumors alone. If there is one there are many smaller ones that they will miss. This is controlled with pred. Either pediapred or prednilesone not prednisone. Easier for the ferret to metabolize. Adrenal....I don't do the surgery. That's money you can use to keep your little one going for much longer than the surgery. Yes, inevitably the tumors will return, it's just a matter of time....3 months, 6 months, 1 yrs or 3. It's a gamble. If you have lots of money go for it but personally, I can't see the use when you can control it with lupron and deslorin. Those symptoms you describe, those are symptoms of insulinoma, not adrenal. I've not had any of those symptoms with my adrenal ferrets but they were all symptoms of my little Calypso who was insulinoma. You should get a ton of responses. Check with Jennifer, she will probably pop in, this is her specialty. Sherrylynne has also researched this extensively. Good luck ciao
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2011 20:48:13 GMT -5
It's difficult. I had a sweet boy ferret who was insulinomic as well as adrenal. Neither killed him. Tumor cells (from both diseases) spread throughout his body and within a few months he had an extremely fast-growing tumor (within weeks) on his elbow that grew into his body wall before we could even see it. It grew so fast and so big he was unable to walk. It was inoperable. Not much time had passed before it was killing him, so we had to put him down.
I've rescued a girl ferret, shes showing rapidly increasing signs of adrenal and insulinoma. I don't know how it will progress with her, but there is no real right or wrong in treatment. There are only options, and you have to decide whats right for you and your ferret. Many can't bear to put the ferret through surgery when it will just come back again. It's quite an ordeal for a ferret. Sometimes they don't survive surgery, particularly if they are up in age. In many cases, ferret owners get the feeling that surgery puts the ferret through unnecessary suffering for us to selfishly enjoy their company. It may not be only a money issue. The biggest thing is keeping our ferrets happy and making their lives enjoyable. You have to decide what's right for your ferret and you, no one else can do that for you.
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Post by Sherry on Feb 3, 2011 22:12:23 GMT -5
I'm also one who has opted not to do the surgery for adrenal. I have no experience with insulinoma at all. In fact, that one is what I'm trying to either avoid, or at least put off, with the raw/whole prey diet. I have 3 adrenal ferrets. At present, one is around 7 years old(we think). She's been on lupron quite successfully for two years. This month, she goes back in for an increased dosage, since it's returned again. My other two were diagnosed around 2-3 years of age. Again, we are going the lupron route. For whatever reason, my vet will not order in the deslorelin, and I refuse to have surgery done on them, because of the high rate of recurrence.
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Post by dreamsome on Feb 4, 2011 18:50:33 GMT -5
thanks for the replies! i've opted against surgery and am now reading into medicine... and i do want to correct myself- the medicine she gave me is called "prednisolone" but i haven't given any to vienna yet because i'm not sure what the right route of treatment should be. but now after reading what heather has said, and googling a bit on my own, i am now realizing that the treatment for insulinoma IS the medicine the vet gave me! i feel much better about that. my only real question now regards adrenal- i haven't seen ANY signs myself except for those relating to insulinoma (thanks for correcting me on this, heather!) so should i ask the vet to take a blood panel so i can have a confirmed diagnosis? i just don't understand why it wasn't something she even suggested! i don't care much for this vet in particular and usually request to see the others instead, but she was the only one who could see me that day. sigh. when i really think about it, she was quite possibly the last woman i could have wanted to break the news to me. can you combine the different medicines for insulinoma and adrenal? oskimosa, i'm sorry about your little boy did you know if the tumors were cancerous?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2011 19:00:21 GMT -5
The only panel to confirm adrenal is the U. Of Tenn. adrenal test. The website says it's $70, but that doesn't include the vet visit, etc. Also, if you're out of the USA, shipping would probably be terrible. www.vet.utk.edu/diagnostic/endocrinology/index.php
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2011 19:02:07 GMT -5
Also, to answer your other question, I believe you can treat for both adrenal and insulinoma concurrently.
Maybe you could look into getting the des. Implant? A lot of ferrents are considering it even before adrenal symptoms hit.
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Post by Heather on Feb 4, 2011 19:09:39 GMT -5
She may have wanted to deal with one before the other. The insulinoma can be fatal if left untreated...the adrenal not so much. You've caught it early, so seeing if she can bring in deslorin for you to treat the adrenal disease would probably be your next step, now that you've decided not to do surgery. She may also have wanted you to think about your options too in regards to treating the adrenal either surgically or through alternative medications. Once you give her your decision on how you want to go in treating the adrenal then things will start to move ahead on the treatment. The insulinoma doesn't have many options and has to be treated while you're making your decision, the adrenal doesn't have to be treated immediately so has been put on the back burner (so to speak) ciao
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Post by dreamsome on Feb 4, 2011 21:10:32 GMT -5
thanks, jackie! because i'm not seeing any symptoms i think the adrenal test would be necessary (unless another vet thinks i should just put her on adrenal-specific medicine anyway) if it's not adrenal, i would definitely look into this des. implant... and what an awesome invention! what's tough is that i can sit here all day and research online until my wrist breaks, but i'm no vet and i've never had experience with this before! heather, i'd like to say that the vet was being respective in regards to treating one over the other, etc but the reality is that she was sending us off on our way with a prescription for the steroids and said that we might have a few months left with vienna. no further discussion happened, and she never mentioned anything about a follow-up or anything of the sort. i don't plan on seeing her unless for an emergency, as she is very quick (sometimes even interrupts me as i'm talking, hel-lo!) and apparently a bit lazy or maybe even uneducated! reading others' stories on here gives me hope that vienna has lots of life left to be happy and jumpy and to keep her little brother company. those positive vibes of hope mean more than anything!
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Post by Sherry on Feb 4, 2011 23:53:40 GMT -5
She certainly does have some time left! Ticks me off when vets simply write them off. With prednisolone, she should(hopefully) be controlled for her insulinoma. You may want to pick yourself up a BG reader, so you can check her blood sugar at home, and talk to the vet about adjusted dosages as needed. As for the adrenal, no reason at all she can't be treated for both at the same time. It's not uncommon for kibble fed ferrets to develop both of them.
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Post by Heather on Feb 5, 2011 0:45:10 GMT -5
Oh, please don't give up on your little girl. She has a lot of time yet. She's young. I had a switching student who had two insulinoma ferrets. Her little girls were being treated long before I came in on the picture to help switch them to raw. They never were able to give up the kibble but the one lived a couple of years after diagnosis and the other little one was still alive the last time I was speaking with her. Insulinoma is indeed a death sentence but it's not tomorrow, or even 6 months to a year. If properly managed your little one can get a long life. Do your research, don't let the vets give up on your little one. With the pred she can go a long way yet ciao
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2011 1:29:17 GMT -5
I think the des. implant is a great idea for any ferret that is suspected to have adrenal. It might even slow the tumor growth, and halt the progression of the disease. Almost all (if not all) ferrets that are neutered/spayed will get adrenal eventually if they live long enough. So being proactive in treatment is a great idea.
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Post by dreamsome on Feb 5, 2011 21:00:20 GMT -5
geez, it sure is nice and welcoming to read everyone's words of encouragement from experience, how long might it take for the prednisolone to start taking effect? on a daily basis vienna is very twitchy, sleepy, weak and sometimes out of it. i can't wait until the symptoms disappear! it's very hard to get her to eat unless i handfeed her or make her chase the kibble "for fun," so i'm not sure what else to try. i have the ferretvite high calorie supplement which i mix with ground meat to get her to eat it (i don't do a lot, and only every couple of days) but other than that, the girl doesn't want food! i forget what the topic was called, and maybe i misread but deslorelin implants need to be ordered in from another country?!? sounds like america needs to be a little more "in the loop" with these treatments! do you think the vet will know what these are? i would love for my little boy to have the implant if he's not too young- he's 6 months old as of the 8th. ;D
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Post by Heather on Feb 5, 2011 23:20:51 GMT -5
I found that Calypso was out of it for a couple of days before the pred started to kick in. It was a subtle move forward but within a few days she was much brighter, found it easier to focus and move around, she slept less too. Her appetite improved (pred will increase her appetite). I believe the des report has been imported over here now. You have to get the des from a company in New Zealand. There are two wonderful ladies over there who are hugely knowledgeable and can help get the necessary papers that are needed to process your application. The most difficult part might be convincing your vet to fill out the paper work. My vet, once she got the supporting information that Jennifer posted , was more than happy to order in the des for me. It took about 3 weeks once the order was received in New Zealand for me to get my des implants. So far, Captain Jack and Sprite have got their shots. This week Pooka and Lady "B" get their shot. I saw an improvement in Jack within a couple of days (they say it takes 3 weeks to see an improvement, maybe I'm seeing wishful thinking ) Here's the post so you can have a look at the proceedure holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=forumsupport&action=display&thread=278ciao
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2011 0:05:09 GMT -5
I'd definitely look into the des. It is showing a lot of promise in controlling adrenal and possibly preventing the progression of the disease.
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