Maurc43's Switching Thread / LindaM & Katt

[maurc43]

1. Ferret's Name: Nibbler
2. Ferret's Weight: 2 lb 8 oz
Include a photo of the ferret dangling.

Quick question: He use to be mostly brown in the face and now has a little mask like most ferrets have. I was wondering if this is what he will probably look like from now on or is this because of his winter coat?

3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal.
Combined, on average they have both been eating 3 to 4 oz per meal.

4. Stools on various proteins:
They have some grainy stools probably from their bone-in meal but evens out after an organ meal. Does this mean I should offer more muscle meat with bone-in meals to avoid it or is it fine since they even out with other meals?

5. Activity Levels: Activity levels are pretty much the same for both. They do randomly just plop on the floor for a couple seconds but then they are right back at it with the same amount of energy.
6. Weekly Menu:
Menu should be in Mon-Sun format, showing AM & PM meal.

Name: Leela
Weight: 2 lbs 4oz

Everything is pretty much the same since they are house together and only eat in cage when I'm not around. Stools are also difficult to see whose they are except they are still pooping on my carpet when they are out of the cage. These stools from both look the same in color and texture. No alarming stools but I since I switched their diet the cats have seemed more interested in the ferrets poop.

Activity: She use to play up until I put them to bed for the night but I've been leaving the cage door open and will find her fast asleep before play time is over so I would say she has less energy than before. She has never had as much energy as Nibbler though.

Monday AM: Turkey wing
Monday PM: Chicken wing

Tuesday AM:Chicken wing
Tuesday PM:Chicken gizzard

Wednesday AM:Chicken neck
WEdnesday PM:Chicken heart

Thursday AM:Turkey wing
Thursday PM:Chicken feet with ground pork


Friday AM:Turkey wing
Friday PM:CHicken heart and liver, Beef Kidney

Saturday AM:Duck Head
Saturday PM: Ground Pork

Sunday AM:Chicken wing
Sunday PM: Chicken liver and Beef kidney


I bought pork chops for a bone in meal, would this be beneficial or should I just keep these for myself?

[LindaM]

You're alright dear, I was just worried something might have happened.

Coat Changes - Ferrets definitely experience coat changes both seasonal and even with age, you'll often see very visible differences between their winter coat and summer coat. Sometimes they'll have a pronounced mask during the one season, and then when they blow their coat the next season they won't, or it'll look faded by comparison. Some ferrets also roan out their colors eventually becoming all white, so those have THE most dramatic coat changes.
Read below for more info:
Ferret Colors & Patterns

Poops - Silly kitties.. they're probably just trying to figure out what is going on. As for poops on the carpet, do they have out-of-cage litter boxes or puppy pads? If not, I suggest putting some out. And to clean your carpet right away when you see them misuse it. I tend to use either a bit of Nature's Miracle cleaner, or some plain old white vinegar and water solution. Make sure to scrub good and clean, because ferret noses are very sharp and if it smells like potty to them, they WILL potty there again.


Bone-In Meals - No, don't add muscle to the all bone-in meals, as that may throw the balance off some, instead I'd like you to change one of the bone-in meals into a muscle meal entirely and see if that makes things better or worse with the poops. Honestly, it is likely to be just from the transition still, but you can try the above to see if it makes their poops better. Remember, poops shouldn't be runny or saucy, while raw-fed poops are wetter, they should still be well formed. With the change of 1 bone meal to a muscle, your menu will have the following: 1 heart, 1 organ, 1 heart+organ, 3 muscle and 8 bone-in. SOME bone-in meals can be quite bone-heavy and you should add a little bit of extra muscle in with it, eg. chicken feet, duck feet, duck heads, all of which are mostly bone by itself. So keep that in mind for that meal of duck heads in the menu. Pork bones are too dense for ferrets, same with beef and lamb, big animals like that. Some few ferrets will eat the rib-ends of pork ribs, but it rarely happens and most will just ignore them, so I'd use the pork chops for yourself or shear the meat off for the ferrets for muscle meals.

Energy Levels/Activity - Okay, so you mention leaving their door open.. there is a change that happens in fuzzies who are allowed certain degrees of free-roaming. When you cage-keep and only let them out for a little bit, they will go on like maniacs because in their mind the following happens: "I GOTTA GET OUT NOW!!!! GOTTA DO ALL THE THINGS! ALL OF IT! RIGHT NOW, RIGHT NOW, RIGHT NOWWWWWWW!!!!!!" But when you allow them to get used to the idea of being allowed more roaming time it seems to mellow them, like this: "Oh.. well, I can always go try that later or tomorrow.. no biggy." Personally, I feel the day I started allowing my ferrets free-roaming, they became a heck of a lot less destructive and troublesome. They're still ferrets you know, but they aren't batcrap crazy insane ferrets on crack or something.

I want to ask a few questions, and then I can see about letting you post a little less frequently.
How are they doing with their organ meals and heart meals? Any problems there at all, like anyone not wanting to eat it or needing a lot of incentive to get started?
Have they been consuming most of the bones in their bone-in meals, or simply eating off meat and mostly leaving the bones untouched?

[maurc43]

The hearts they seem to do fine as long as I cut them into slices instead of offering whole hearts. When I did whole hearts they didn't touch them so I've been cutting them up and they ate 6oz of them yesterday night.

Bones they have been eating smaller ones and the bigger ones not as much. I need to go get that hammer looking thing you recommended this weekend. I noticed that the meat that is left on bonein days is usually the ones that contain the bigger bones but I didn't really see it as an urgent issue since their poops seem to show they are getting enough bone. Do you still have to hammer some bones for yours or is that only for ferrets that are learning to eat raw? Should they be eating the bones from other meat that is dense?

I know that they need to have 3 different types of meat and chicken has been very successful. What other meats should I be buying for the bone in meal and what type? For example, they eat chicken wings and neck well but don't do well with the drumsticks.

They get three litter boxes outside of the cage.( I take two out of the cage but just recently changed it to one large in the cage) I keep two downstairs and one at the top of the stairs. They usually will poop right next to a litter box! I even catch Nibbler going into the litter box and squatting. I stop paying attention for a second because I assume he's going and then when I look over, he's over in a corning pooping all over the place! They do great in the cage besides like two accidents but they are almost always next to the litter box. Any thing I should do to help with this? The ferrets are in their own room with just the rats (which are on a stand and can be moved to another room) so If they would stop having accidents, I would love to let them free roam because I feel bad that they have to be in a cage most of the day. The only thing is that Leela loves to scratch at the carpet and has already ruined a good portion of it because I shut their bedroom door during play time which she didn't approve of. I do use natures miracle and it works pretty good. I plan on investing in a nice carpet cleaner soon because I don't want my house to constantly smell like poop.

[maurc43]

just realized that it was chicken gizzard I gave them yesterday and was last weekend when they had the chicken hearts. They are getting chicken hearts tonight. They look kind of similar to me and I have to cut both gizzard and hearts into strips. In fact I have to cut everything down into smaller pieces or sections. Like chicken necks into two or three pieces or they won't eat as much. Chicken is definetly getting the best feeding response. I feel they don't eat as much of the other meats when offered so they go a little hungry which is why I give them a lot of chicken. Good thing Leela hasn't had a bad reaction to it. She must have just been stressed being in a new home or didn't like the kibble she was on.

[LindaM]

Bones - Some bones I will always bash up a bit with a hammer before offering to my ferrets, usually when it's the tougher, weight-bearing bones such as turkey thighs. The turkey necks I get are on the tough side too, so those I bash up some as well. But most bone-in meals don't get bashed once they have gotten used to eating the bones. Drumsticks on a chicken I would usually smash a little too as they are weight-bearing bones. The Basic Frankenprey Menu has a great list on which are good bone-in options:
holisticferretforum.com/natural-diet/raw-diet-the-meat-of-the-site/basic-frankenprey-menu/
Take note, on the pork button bones and rib-ends, not all ferrets will eat these or even try to do so. Mine for one, simply ignore them. Most large animals have bones that are too dense, these will not be eaten and just ignored, so there is no use in offering them; bones from lamb, beef, goat, buffalo, pork (other than the mentioned ones and then it's still only some that will eat it), etc.

Proteins - Three is the very minimum amount of proteins to offer weekly. The more you can provide, the better it is of course. My lot actually eat a whole load of different proteins and I'm quite lucky to be able to offer as many to them. The more you can get them used to, the better it is usually. Easy bone-in choices to try would be quail, duck, rabbit, frog legs, etc.

Potty Boxes - Uh.. that might be your problem there.. how big is your home? Or the area that they get to be in, at any rate. We tend to do a litter box per room, and if it's a large room then 2 boxes or box and pads. I usually do a pad by my boxes as well because Apollo, our wee oddball, hard as he tries to get it right, tends to make oopsies in the poop department. For training mine outside, if I saw someone needing to go and aim elsewhere, I'd shout to get their attention while storming over, grab them and place inside a litter box or on a pad, and wait till they go. Sometimes you need to put them back a few times before they go, after they do, I'd reward with a treat and praise. And you CHECK that they did go, because some will fake it for the treat, even do the tummy motions for you to see but not actually pooping.
PS. Yes, do invest in a carpet cleaner.. or get rid of the carpet and get something hygienic like tile. I'm planning on ripping all the carpet in our home once I can afford to do so.

As for ruining carpet with scratching.. ahh I think katt could tell you some stories about her two ghouls right now, haha! My lot don't really scratch the carpets anymore, they've given up on it, much better to bodyslam the doors nowadays. They did cost me like $1000-1500 in a freaking carpet bill from the apartment we rented before we bought this house, all from a tiny square they dug to shreds a week before we moved out. Some people stick down some of those plastic carpet protector that comes on the rolls at like Home Depot, some people staple it down. I haven't tried the staple or stick, because Athena loves tape and would certainly eat it.. and I think some can get through the staples, correct Katt?

As for the hearts and gizzards, I don't buy in the multipacks the stores sell, they always cheat you. They do like a whole pack of gizzards with maybe 2 hearts. It's really expensive too, compared to buying hearts by themselves in a pack. There are some differences you can see between the pieces, perhaps these photos can help:
HEART

GIZZARD

[LindaM]

maurc43 Please check in, I haven't heard from you in a few days now. How are Nibbler and Leela doing?

[katt]

maurc43 as per the Mentoring Program Rules:

You are required to post every second day during the "soup" stage of the transition. From the "sliver" stage, through to large chunks, you will be required to post a minimum of every 3 days. Once you hit the large chunks, once a week will be acceptable.

If you wish to post into your thread more often, that will be MORE than welcome The above are simply the minimum requirements so we can help with sticky spots, and not have to "catch up" to where you are presently at. Failure to post as required will result in your switch coming to a standstill and will result in two warnings before being dropped from the mentoring program.
If something comes up, and you need to be away, please contact your mentor letting her know how long you will be absent.

We really need you to pop in with an update please. How are things going?

[maurc43]

Sorry, going through a breakup after being together for 4 years. Give me a week to get my life together and I will start posting more consistently like I was before.

Ferrets are eating about 3 to 4 oz per meal. Had beef brain for the first time and they weren't very interested in it. I bought some quail and rabbit to try but probably not until next week.

I will try to do weekly update when I get home and i am following the schedule for last week for food but will post it again when I do update.

[LindaM]

Okay, that's fine hon, we just need to be given a heads-up so we know you haven't simply left us, but I understand sometimes things happen without warning. I'm so truly sorry to hear that you are having to go through something like that. Stay strong and if you ever need to talk to vent or anything, or even just need an ear willing to listen, feel free to send a PM my way.

Organs tend to be the harder to introduce items for most ferrets, so don't be discouraged if they seemed uninterested. A little trick you could try whenever introducing a new organ and they don't want to take to it in chunk or sliver form is to throw it in a blender and make a puree out of it and then try introducing with a spoon. If THAT still goes wonky after a several tries, you can mix in a little bit of salmon oil just to get them going.

You can stick with last week's menu for this week, that way you don't have to stress over it all too much as well. We'll try the quail and rabbit next week when things might be more settled for you.

[maurc43]

The ferrets have been eating about the same amount for the most part. Ive learned that they do not like small chunks. I had some organs prepped into tiny chunks for when they first started and I mixed it with strip of organ and they eat everything but the chunks. This is like the 2nd or 3rd time theyve done this so once all chunks are gone I won't serve them like that again. Monday they barely touched their chicken wings and only ate about 1 to 2 oz each. This didn't have any affect on their activity levels but they had some mushy poops since they didn't eat very much bone in after organs but I noticed last night their stools were back to normal after eating their normal 3 to 4 oz each.

They were eating so much more when I first started this diet. Is this going to be the amount they eat from now on or is it because the raw soup isn't as filling as the actual meat.

[LindaM]

So, there are several reasons why ferrets slow their roll on stuffing their faces. Firstly, at the start of a raw switch, ferrets will eat more and then slow down a while into it, like they were trying to make up for lost nutrients from back when they got only kibble. Secondly, soup and grinds are just sooooo easy to slurp up, which can also actually lead to some ferrets to overeat, but chunks and bone-in meats are work by comparison, since they need to shear, chew and crunch, thus they regulate better on it too. Thirdly, seasonal changes affect diet, in winter ferrets eat more and pick up weight, even getting pudgy at times, but come the spring and summer, they eat less and can lose weight (up to 40% of their bodyweight) again. Fourth, as kits get older they won't stuff their faces as much as baby kits for example, and they will gradually start to lessen how much they eat as they keep aging.

Daily Averages for Adult Ferrets:
The adult male ferret eats on average 3-5oz per day.
The adult female ferret eats on average 1-3oz per day.

Over here my lot have stopped their winter gorging of food and are already starting to slow down. This is also why I mentioned keeping a journal of how much they eat to get an idea of averages, you should also do this later again once they become adults, that way the seasonal changes in the future don't freak you out and make your heart stop.

Are they currently eating so that their bowls are entirely licked clean at meal times, or do you find a little bit remaining afterwards?

As for them preferring bigger pieces of the organs, that is GREAT!

[LindaM]

Hey, maurc43, how are you and the fluffies doing? You ready to continue with your switch?

[LindaM]

maurc43 Please respond on whether you are ready to continue.

[katt]

Unfortunately due to inactivity this thread must now be locked and vaulted. maurc43 if you would like to reopen this thread at any point, please send Sherry a PM. I hope things settle down with the life changes at home soon. <3 Wishing you the best.