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Post by raiden on Dec 19, 2017 20:45:20 GMT -5
Has anyone had experience with CBD oils and ferret insulinoma or ferrets in general? I've been looking into it and see a few posts about it but they eventually fade out with no update. There's a .gov link of studies done on mice regarding THC and CBD fighting tumors, I can link it if anyone is interested! I'm not sure if you NEED THC to fight it but I don't really have access to it.. I'm buying a CBD oil online tonight, I hope it's the real deal, it would really be nice to find something to cure this evil disease!
(A little background: My ferret first was drooling in September, no tumors were found and she had low BG, just now she had another episode and we upped her prednisolone from .07 to .1, first time BG was around 60, second time, 40. They're saying it's a very early stage but it's definitely getting worse and I don't want to wait until it's too late for a possible solution for something that regardless would get worse, I can't have her having a seizure...)
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Post by Sherry on Dec 20, 2017 11:11:11 GMT -5
There is little evidence cbd oil will help ferrets to begin with, and none that it will do anything for insulinoma. And that is really a VERY low dose of pred if it is 5mg/5ml. What is the strength?
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Post by raiden on Dec 20, 2017 15:02:53 GMT -5
There is little evidence cbd oil will help ferrets to begin with, and none that it will do anything for insulinoma. And that is really a VERY low dose of pred if it is 5mg/5ml. What is the strength? Yes it's 5mg/ml. Does insulinoma always lead to seizing? I'm on my 3rd flavor with her as she hates them all and I can't see her suffer anymore. It is a low dose they agreed, she was on the .07 for about two months with no problem until now and they upped it to .1. They want us to come back in two weeks for another BG test and then every month.. I'm looking into buying test myself. What makes you think it wouldn't help with insulinoma? / you believe there is no cure?
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Post by abbeytheferret6 on Dec 20, 2017 17:55:39 GMT -5
I am so sorry about your little ones diagnosis. I did not know if you understood everything about insulinoma, so i found this info for you. avianandexotic.com/care-sheets/mammals/insulinoma-in-ferrets/Insulinoma is a common condition of middle-aged to older ferrets. These tumors of the pancreas cause an increase in the secretion of insulin, which leads to severely low blood sugar (hypoglycemia). This condition is seen most commonly in 3-4 year old ferrets, both male and female. Signs of the disease may appear suddenly as an episode of collapse lasting from minutes to hours. During such an episode, the ferret usually appears depressed, recumbent, and unresponsive. In severe cases, seizures may occur. Clinical symptoms appear gradually in many ferrets. Commonly, ferrets with insulinoma experience gradually progressive weakness and lethargy over weeks to months. Excessive salivation, pawing at the mouth, and weakness of the hind limbs are also frequently observed. Signs may be intermittent, with periods of normal activity in between periods of lethargy. Prolonged, severe hypoglycemia can lead to convulsions and even irreversible brain damage and death. Because of the frequency and severity of this disease, it is recommended that all ferrets 3 years old and older have their blood glucose checked every 6 months. If your ferret has any of the symptoms described above, several measurements of his/her blood glucose level should be made to diagnose the condition. Blood glucose measurements need to be taken after your pet has been fasted for 3-4 hours. Glucose levels consistently lower than 60 mg/dL support the diagnosis of insulinoma. In some cases, it may also be necessary to measure your pets’ insulin concentration. There are treatments available for this disease. Most ferrets with insulinoma will need to take the steroid prednisolone which helps increase blood glucose concentrations. Unfortunately, this medication does not prevent the continued growth of the tumor. For this reason, regular blood glucose monitoring is essential to help determine if the dose of prednisolone needs to be changed. Depending on the severity of the disease, a second drug called diazoxide may be used in combination with prednisolone. Medical therapy alone is usually effective in controlling signs of the disease for 6 – 18 months. Surgery is a second option for treatment of insulinoma. The procedure involves removal of a portion of the pancreas, and is usually combined with medical treatment. Typically, there are microscopic metastases throughout the entire pancreas by the time a ferret is showing clinical signs of the disease. Since it is not possible to remove the entire pancreas, surgery is not curative, but rather slows the progression of the disease. Pets treated with a combination of surgery and medical therapy typically remain symptom free for about 1-3 years. More recently, chemotherapy protocols have been established for treatment of insulinoma. Chemotherapy involves IV administration of the drug doxorubicin. Usually four sessions of chemotherapy are given at 3-week intervals, though the protocol may be altered depending upon the individual ferret. Chemotherapy is usually performed in combination with medical therapy and/or surgery. There is not enough data at this time to predict symptom-free life span for ferrets treated with chemotherapy. This protocol is tolerated very well by our patients, and most are experiencing huge improvements in quality of life. Home Management of Ferrets with Insulinoma If your ferret has been diagnosed with insulinoma, there are some simple things you can do at home to help improve your pets’ health and quality of life. First, make sure your ferret is eating a premium quality, high protein ferret food. Avoid high carbohydrate and high sugar foods and treats. Your pet should not go for long periods of time without eating. Frequent, small meals are ideal. If your pet experiences a hypoglycemic episode at home, offer a little honey or corn syrup using an oral syringe. If he/she has collapsed, rub honey or corn syrup on the gums, being very careful to avoid being bitten. If your ferret is having seizures, you should not try to put anything in the mouth. Seek veterinary attention immediately. Routine blood glucose monitoring is an essential part of managing a ferret with insulinoma. You should invest in an over the counter glucometer, like those used by diabetic humans, which should be available at any human pharmacy. Measurements should be taken after your ferret has fasted for 3-4 hours. Follow your veterinarians’ recommendations as to how often to measure blood glucose and what to watch for. Always report blood glucose concentrations to your veterinarian, particularly if there are any changes in the value.
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Post by Sherry on Dec 21, 2017 10:10:50 GMT -5
Surgery is pretty much a useless endeavor as it is normally thousands of microscopic tumours throughout the pancreas. Which is also why it can't be "cured". At some point the meds will simply no longer work. Granted through a proper diet and splitting doses of meds/feedings through the day my little ones with this wound up passing from other things than low bg. So what we all aim at is good management of BG. And preventing those gods awful seizures.
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Post by Sherry on Dec 21, 2017 10:16:12 GMT -5
raiden most ferrets hate it- but the do get used to it after a while. Try following up with some salmon oil. I draw some oil up, then the prenisolone, then a dab more oil. It goes down a bit easier that way. Another trick with my boy who is on .6 twice a day is to just put the tip of the syringe just inside the back of his lips at the back corner of his mouth and squirting in a little at a time. He seems more accepting of that.
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Post by raiden on Dec 21, 2017 18:35:50 GMT -5
Surgery is pretty much a useless endeavor as it is normally thousands of microscopic tumours throughout the pancreas. Which is also why it can't be "cured". At some point the meds will simply no longer work. Granted through a proper diet and splitting doses of meds/feedings through the day my little ones with this wound up passing from other things than low bg. So what we all aim at is good management of BG. And preventing those gods awful seizures. Thank you! May I ask, what is the best case scenario you've had with this awful disease? My two main concerns are not taking her to surgery and avoiding a seizure. Also how long has your boy been on .6? I bought a BG tester today
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Post by raiden on Dec 21, 2017 20:57:14 GMT -5
Sorry, I just realized you already covered your views surgery. These little guys make you fall so deep in love then break your heart and they don't even know what's going on lol, they're so cute and they have such a good spirit.
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Post by Sherry on Dec 22, 2017 10:34:57 GMT -5
With meds and diet management mine have usually stayed an average of 2 years on their initial dose of pred before it had to start being increased. Touch wood I have never had one seize. The shortest time from diagnosis to death was a year, which included the only time I would ever consider surgery. She could not be maintained with meds or diet. But then again, she turned out to have a very malignant form of pancreatic cancer. Vet was shocked she had a year of decent quality.
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Post by Gg on Jan 1, 2018 12:25:51 GMT -5
My ferret who has been diagnosed for a handful of months tried multiple flavors and hated them all! It got to the point where he would see the syringe and he'd take cover, only peeking from out of whatever he's hiding in. I worried that the stress alone was going to break his trust in me and lessen the bond we have. Then someone on here gave me the advice to get the unflavored prednisolone in liquid form (which contains no sugary overload for the ferret and also doesn't taste like alcohol from artificial flavoring!- I know this because of Momos perfect aim, he some how got a bit of his meds on my face and on my lip during one of the times he was squirming around back when I was still giving him his meds via syringe.. I understood immediately why he would put up a fight!! Pure bitter alcohol taste.).. mix that in with a small amount of their food (which is soup since we're transitioning to raw). I put that in a small soy sauce dish, mix it up and he'll eat it all with no trouble. It was literally night and day! Now, he thinks he's getting a treat because he gets his own little dish! He'll sometimes run up after he's done and lick my hand like "all done" They really are the cutest little beings. If you don't have them on a soup, you can always mix it with the salmon oil!
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Post by milogost on Jan 12, 2018 8:42:44 GMT -5
Have you taken a stab at utilizing www.ilovegrowingmarijuana.com/cbd-in-medical-marijuana/ oil for your concern? I heard its a thing now and ive heard alot of individuals are utilizing this CBD oil thing..I had a go at seeking what this CBD oil is able to do and im exceptionally entranced to know its therapeutic properties and how it can enable many individuals from certain sort of malady to like joint inflammation, traded off resistant frameworks, seizures, epilepsy, nervousness, and balding..
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Post by Heather on Jan 12, 2018 11:23:04 GMT -5
Unfortunately, it doesn't offer the same thing....this is a pancreatic tumour that does not appear to respond favourably. I've seen CBD used successfully on epilepsy, migraines, some nervous conditions (it did absolutely nothing for my dog...nothing). It appears to work better for short circuits, though I've heard it working on some tumours. CBD is a type of EO, ferrets and cats do not respond well to EOs because of their inability to process it. It's simple but complex at the same time. One of the issues right now with CBD is similar to a lot of "crazes".....think coconut oil, think flax seed and flax seed oil....none of these things do everything they claim, BUT, they do have a place. Right now, CBD is the go to craze. It has a purpose and it works very well, we've yet to tap into all it's potential. Unfortunately, it's also the snake oil, cure all as well. It does a lot of wonderful things but long term damage caused by using an EO....for something that may or may not respond. So far a raw diet and prednisolone (not prednisone) works and we know it works. I use pediapred....yes, it's got some sugars, it's made for children, my guys like their bubblegum flavour (bleck!!). The best way to remove all but traces of a chance of insulinoma, take the time to learn how to feed them a properly balanced species appropriate diet. There is a genetic sensitivity to the disease but making sure they eat a well balanced diet goes a long way to override this issue. I've had a large number of ferrets pass through my home. All no matter how old have been switched to raw diet. Out of all these ferrets I've had 2 with a confirmed diagnosis of insulinoma. FunGo-B-Squiggly and Lady Pandora. I had 4 others diagnosed, but did not respond well to the pred. Odin, Lady Zena, Lady Calypso and Yuri. Odin and Yuri both had duodenal cancers which made them exhibit insulinoma symptoms. Necropsy revealed the cancers which seem to allow for the same symptoms as insulinoma. There were no tumours on their pancreas, it was clear. Lady Zena had a brain tumour and Lady Calypso a tumour of the spine at the base of the skull. Both ferrets exhibited similar symptoms except raging seizures that didn't respond to treatment The longest I've ever had a ferret live after diagnosis....2.5 yrs, Fun-Go. He never moved up from his original dosage but unfortunately developed a cancer of the spine that robbed him of his mobility and left him in pain, so he was euthanized. He did very well at controlling his BG with his pred BID and his meals given at 3x a day. ciao
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Post by raiden on Jan 17, 2018 10:53:33 GMT -5
Unfortunately, it doesn't offer the same thing....this is a pancreatic tumour that does not appear to respond favourably. I've seen CBD used successfully on epilepsy, migraines, some nervous conditions (it did absolutely nothing for my dog...nothing). It appears to work better for short circuits, though I've heard it working on some tumours. CBD is a type of EO, ferrets and cats do not respond well to EOs because of their inability to process it. It's simple but complex at the same time. One of the issues right now with CBD is similar to a lot of "crazes".....think coconut oil, think flax seed and flax seed oil....none of these things do everything they claim, BUT, they do have a place. Right now, CBD is the go to craze. It has a purpose and it works very well, we've yet to tap into all it's potential. Unfortunately, it's also the snake oil, cure all as well. It does a lot of wonderful things but long term damage caused by using an EO....for something that may or may not respond. So far a raw diet and prednisolone (not prednisone) works and we know it works. I use pediapred....yes, it's got some sugars, it's made for children, my guys like their bubblegum flavour (bleck!!). The best way to remove all but traces of a chance of insulinoma, take the time to learn how to feed them a properly balanced species appropriate diet. There is a genetic sensitivity to the disease but making sure they eat a well balanced diet goes a long way to override this issue. I've had a large number of ferrets pass through my home. All no matter how old have been switched to raw diet. Out of all these ferrets I've had 2 with a confirmed diagnosis of insulinoma. FunGo-B-Squiggly and Lady Pandora. I had 4 others diagnosed, but did not respond well to the pred. Odin, Lady Zena, Lady Calypso and Yuri. Odin and Yuri both had duodenal cancers which made them exhibit insulinoma symptoms. Necropsy revealed the cancers which seem to allow for the same symptoms as insulinoma. There were no tumours on their pancreas, it was clear. Lady Zena had a brain tumour and Lady Calypso a tumour of the spine at the base of the skull. Both ferrets exhibited similar symptoms except raging seizures that didn't respond to treatment The longest I've ever had a ferret live after diagnosis....2.5 yrs, Fun-Go. He never moved up from his original dosage but unfortunately developed a cancer of the spine that robbed him of his mobility and left him in pain, so he was euthanized. He did very well at controlling his BG with his pred BID and his meals given at 3x a day. ciao Thank you for your reply, the only reason I look at CBD differently is because there are Government studies backing the claims. She eats carnivore care but isn't too interested in her kibble or water really anymore, her poops have also been a little weird, sometimes there is bubbles in it and sometimes it's not as formed. As of now me and my girlfriend plan to have her put to sleep Friday.. We don't want things to get worse for her as they have been.
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Post by Heather on Jan 17, 2018 11:42:18 GMT -5
If there are studies to back the use of CBD in relation to using it on insulinoma I would love to see them. Information in regard to the use of this in cats and ferrets with long term outcomes are in short supply and any information is worth a lot. I'm sorry that you've found that your wee one is not showing a good prognosis. ciao
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Post by raiden on Jan 17, 2018 14:08:39 GMT -5
If there are studies to back the use of CBD in relation to using it on insulinoma I would love to see them. Information in regard to the use of this in cats and ferrets with long term outcomes are in short supply and any information is worth a lot. I'm sorry that you've found that your wee one is not showing a good prognosis. ciao I'll post the link to the .gov article once I get home, they've only tested on mice and now recently humans for breast cancer and others which both had good results, showing the compound induced apoptosis. Unfortunately there isn't much at all on ferret insulinoma aside from other's accounts which they never followed up on.
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