I've seen the chart yes, and haha naw, they just eat whatever I throw in! Sometimes Binx will be a little iffy, he was on tripe, but Thackery will eat literally ANYTHING. If it's in his bowl it's down his throat.
I have been~ They have only had one fish each since I got them so far
Ah, I getcha on the tripe. Something to keep in mind about the grinds on My Pet Carnivore, they aren't always balanced. So when using them, it will require some planning and calculation to make sure your menu remains balanced. A balanced grind will contain 10% organs (half of it should be liver), 10% hearts, 65-70% muscle, and 10-15% bone.
Since they are eating bone-in meals already, have you been increasing their sliver sizes too? Are you going to move them off the grinds and onto slivers, chunks and bone-in (if the particular protein has edible bones) of the same proteins?
I know they aren't balanced I don't feed my pet carnivore alone. Some days are that, and some days are bone in meals, and some are chunks of meat. And then I'll throw in liver and kidney throughout the week. (I already balance for my dog)
And they have been getting chunks and bone in instead of slivers they get soupie sometimes, but it's more of a scoop of soupie mix on the side of say, a game hen wing.
Binx went to the vet today! He got a mostly clean bill of health. He's got good lungs, a good heart, no bumps, etc. He does have ear mites, which he likely just got from coming from a Marshalls farm. I got medicine for that, and I'm going to be giving both him and Thackery that since Thack likely would have gotten it from Binx. Or it's possible that Binx got it from Thack. Either way, they both get one drop in each ear a week for three weeks. But the vet also noticed that Binx did have very small cataracts in both his eyes, most likely hereditary. My plan is of course just to keep an eye on his eyes, and not worry about it. But are there any tips you guys can give me if his eyes do get worse?
He does get plenty of taurine in his diet. Almost every day I include either heart chunks, a grind that includes heart, or he'll get instinct frozen cat food which does have taurine. I can up the amount of heart in the soupies, or up the days that include outright heart chunks. I just want to make sure his eyes are given the extra boost!
The only concern I would have is that A) too much extra heart can lead to pretty runny poops, B) too much of it can also unbalance the diet, especially if he fills up on heart and doesn't eat enough of the other required meal types.
And that was something I was going to comment on to the other post too and I must have slipped on doing that, it's been a rough last few days getting my paperwork in to the government. x.X
It's not only that it would be unbalanced to feed only grinds from MPC, but that when using them, you need to make sure your OVERALL menu is still balanced correctly. That Tripe grind, seems to be 50% organ, 50% muscle.. I think.. so you have to account for that when you work with the rest of your meals, as technically that would make a meal of half muscle, half organ already. Your ferret's overall weekly diet requires them to get 10% heart and 10% organs (5% of that total should be liver), so 1.5 meal of hearts and 1.5 meal of organs (in the Frankenprey menu at least).
When you feed Frankenprey and Grinds, you still need to balance it out between one another. And since it sounds like you feed more than a single grind in the week, thus you technically won't be feeding any muscle meals(plural) in the week, there should only be like one meal of muscle meat, because if you use the balancing chart it'll show you mostly need bone-in meals. (Keep in mind, this chart assumes you are using BALANCED grinds, and not also needing to balance that first). Here's the chart: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/17989/balancing-frankenprey-diets-prey-grinds
You need to be careful about just "throwing liver in throughout the week" too. Liver needs to definitely be balanced to the menu amount (up to 10% of total diet if you cannot offer another organ for the one half) and no more than that or it can build up into a Vitamin A toxicity as liver is high in Vitamin A which is fat-soluble and not water-soluble unlike say, Taurine in hearts.
Yeah, admittedly I am having trouble with the math part of the balancing. With the dog it's easy, it's all weight based. She gets a set amount a week, and I can do simple math. But doing the math for the ferrets is much harder because everything I've seen just says feed them as they need more food. But I would say all their meals are frankenprey.
Can you give me an example of how I would calculate in a grind? Mypetcarnivore says the majority of their grinds are the standard amount for dogs, 80/10/10. But I know that ferrets need more bone and more heart.
LindaM A raw feeder in my town says she uses the mypetcarnivore and watches their poops, adding bone if it looks a bit squishy and adding heart as needed. She has quite a few healthy ferrets and says she hasn't had any problem with mypetcarnivore grinds
Sorry, it was getting late for me after a busy day. Personally, it's one of the reasons I don't really ever use any unbalanced grinds.. it takes more math and extra planning than I am willing to deal with.
As for someone else feeding them, please be aware that not ALL raw feeders feed a balanced raw diet (and it tends to be those people who give the raw feeding such a nasty rep with vets when they they need to fix things later on). Some people think it's as easy as just throwing meat at the ferrets and it can have long-term consequences. Not saying the raw feeder in your town is like that, just keep in mind that it can happen. MPC is a great site (though I use Hare Today if I do online, due to order size and cost I just get off one site if I can) and definitely well trusted in the ferret community, but catch is they make some grinds that are more balanced than others and you need to just put the extra effort in when using the ones that aren't well balanced.
First of, is there any reason you wish to be feeding grinds? It serves zero purpose in cleaning teeth and will in fact also cause plaque and tartar growth which needs to be brushed by you a few times a week. Grinds, as with any super easy to slurp up food, can also cause a ferret to overeat at times, or eat too fast as well. Is the purpose of grinds in this only for the switching process or do you plan on it long-term?
I mainly feed grinds for variety, and because of my dog. I live in a place where there is NO Asian markets within the state as far as I know. This is a small town in Wyoming... No one really has a need for that. So if I want rabbit, or even offal, I have to get it online. Just recently off of mypetcarnivore, I got ground beaver. There's nowhere else I can get that. And I get ground rabbit because mixing a little extra offal with that is the only way that I get my dog to eat offal. The tripe is also only able to be found online in that ground manner, and tripe is just a good addition to a raw diet. Otherwise, they do get bone in and muscle meat meals. Last night they each got a game hen wing, half a chicken heart, and chunks of venison.
But if you're not opposed to getting raw online, as you are already doing with the grinds, why not just get some actual raw, like muscle pieces, bone-in pieces, or whole animal?
LMAO! You got Beaver.. that's definitely an exotic buy, well done. <3
Here's the thing though, the lesser amount of grinds you can offer in the diet, the better. This is coming from experience as I like offering some commercial along with my Frankenprey menu, just to keep the kids used to it, in case of an emergency if it ever is needed. But, I try to keep it to as little as possible. Why? Well, like I mentioned.. the more grinds you offer.. the more you need to focus on personally cleaning their teeth.. and the easier it is for one to overeat. Ferrets regulate wonderfully on raw.. when they have to work for it, like chew off pieces of meat, crunch through bones, etc. but slurping soup and grinds.. way too easy.
Let's try this, because I am totally willing to work with you on this and see if we can get things looking nice and balanced. A) What kinds of proteins can you get easily in your town? B) What kind of proteins will you not be opposed to buying online, in say pieces of muscle and bone-in? C) Could you try and list your current menu for me, in daily order, for example: Monday AM: Monday PM: Tuesday AM: and so on. Can you also make a full list of which proteins your ferrets WILL eat without any coaxing, spoon or finger feeding needing to be involved?
Sunday AM: Instinct frozen raw cat food mixed with soupies Sunday PM: Ground Beaver + 1/2 teaspoon bone meal.
They have eaten: ground rabbit, ground beaver, chicken ribcage, boneless chicken meat, literally anything from a game hen, Instinct Frozen Raw cat food, venison, beef, pork, pig heart, beef heart, chicken heart, chicken liver, and ground beef supermix. With the ground tripe beef mix, Thackery will eat it no problem, but Binx requires that it is mixed with some other ground meat. Thackery is also the only one who eats whole prey.
The ferrets don't need their food ground at all though.. they have carnivore teeth meant for scissoring meat and crunching through bones. Why does doggy get her food ground? Does she have some dental or mouth problems to warrant that? Or just being a picky snooter?
How much meat do you put out when you add the bone-meal powder? You can overdo it and cause dry poops or constipation. Usually, if we are feeding slivers when a ferret isn't eating bones yet (or it happens that it's supposed to be a bone-in meal and there's none in the fridge or freezer, oops), we do 1/2 to 3/4tsp per 10oz of muscle meat.
I'd like to lessen the amount of CGH (Cornish Game Hen) overall in the menu, CGH is technically still a young chicken, so I'd like the menu not to rely so entirely on it for bone-in meals. How about doing some regular chicken? Maybe some turkey? Maybe a wee bit of pork? You've listed those as proteins they do eat. Because right now, their only actual Bone-In protein in the menu is CGH. With pork.. some will eat pork tails or pork rib ends. With Turkey they can do necks, ribs and wing tips.
Is there a reason you feed your heart and organ (liver+kidney) mixed with other things? We don't recommend doing that at all, it makes it very easy for fuzzies to pick out favorites which may end with one eating too much of something and too little of another.
Your current menu isn't entirely properly balanced right now when looking at the Balancing Chart. While yes, there seems to be 7 grinds (technically since the one is mixed bone-in and grind, you can go either way), so should have 4 (or 5 if making the mixed one a bone-in instead) bone-in, and then 1 muscle, 1 heart, and 1 organ. Your heart meal should be 100% heart only. The organ meal should be only liver and another organ eg. kidney for the meal. The muscle meal should be just a muscle.
Instinct Raw Cat grinds I believe are considered balanced grinds, as for your ground rabbit and beaver.. I'm not sure, what's the ratios in them?
The dog will eat regular food, but when it comes to offal meat, she will go five days without eating before she touches offal Unless it is mixed with some sort of grind, then she'll eat it no problem. So... the grinds are more or less are me giving up and letting her have her way. But most days, the dog gets standard meat chunks and bone in.
I could most likely get a whole chicken and let them have more of that. Are they able to handle the drumstick at their age? The drumstick is even too much for my little dog, she never gets more than the thigh. I wouldn't even know where to get pork bones or tails. I'm pretty much going off what I can find at a grocery store. The butcher in town only sells boneless meat :/ I asked and even when I explained it was for animals he says he throws all the bones away so... I don't have pork bones LOL But chicken wings go to the dog all the time, so I could get a hold of those. I was just doing game hen because of their size. Admittedly I assumed since they were so little, they needed the easier bones. But that's easy enough to switch.
It's 6oz of meat plus the 1/2 teaspoon. They haven't had constipation yet, but that likely is in large part due to transition poops haha. But I can stop adding bone meal powder.
I just feed it with meat in an attempt to let them have variety, but I can switch it so one meal is all offal for the AM and all muscle or a bone in for the PM
All MPC grinds are 80/10/10. The standard amount for a dog
They can eat most of the bones of a chicken, when it comes to the weight-bearing bones like that though, it may require you to smash them up some first, else most fuzzies would just ignore them.
Grocery stores there don't sell pork ribs at all? Pretty common item here in the pork section. As for talking with a butcher.. sometimes they just can't.. it's like the equivalent of illegal for them to give you certain pieces deemed not for human consumption, it can cost them their jobs. Sounds stupid and probably is, but that's just how it plays out. I'd love for a US butcher to give me European cut bacon.. but I'm also crap out of luck on that, haha.
Chicken wings will make a great bone-in item. Try to have variety at all times though, just as you're supposed to have a minimum of 3 proteins, this means for each bone-in and muscle. Obviously, depending on menu you may only offer a single muscle meal, but variety is still important.
Remember, they need 1 meal of only hearts, 1 meal of only organs (half of that meal has to be liver), and 1 meal of muscle, going off your current menu and adjusting it accordingly. Try to follow up heart and organ meals with a bone-in meal, because both hearts and organs can lead to some runny poops.
It's past midnight for me right now, but I'll see if I can get a hold of an admin or mentor tomorrow and ask what to do about balancing the grinds a bit more and then I'll let you know what I find out.
Alright, got it. I'll see about getting some wings.
And I've seen boneless pork rib, where they just take off the meat and sell it like that. But not any bone in ones. They have bone in pork chops, but those are all machine cut bones, a nono. We're in a vary small town. So options here are pretty limited. I could get a hold of chicken wings and MAYBE turkey wings. But getting a variety of bone in meals is hard sadly Chicken and game hen are more or less what I have. I can't get duck, and Binx won't eat whole prey so far. Thack will.