|
Post by LindaM on Sept 26, 2017 20:32:15 GMT -5
Excellent, let me know how they take to the pork.
As for pork tails.. hmm.. I'm not sure if those will be considered too boney or not, I have not fed any myself. For example chicken feet are too boney by themselves and should be served with some muscle meat so they do not lead to constipation. But I think they will be alright, I think some of the members on here have had them in their menus for a bone-in meal. I can always ask one of the admins to confirm if you'd like.
If they take to them and properly eat the bone from it, that will be excellent and we can count it under another protein. Sometimes they can be wee snots and not eat some bones, so let's keep an eye out for that though. Be aware of any stashes they may try to hide bones in and be sure to check that they do end up eating them instead of just leaving in a stash. ^^
|
|
Kaitlyn
Junior Member
Raw and Whole Prey Feeder
Occupation: Wife, Dog Enthusiest, Ferret Lover, and Gecko Chew Toy
Posts: 170
|
Post by Kaitlyn on Sept 27, 2017 6:39:52 GMT -5
They ate the pork really well.
They're averaging about 9-11oz of food a day. With little bits left over.
I gave them a pork tail this morning, just to see what they do with it. (And I forgot to thaw chicken wings last night, tired me is forgetful) I'd love to hear what an admin has to say about them though. They looked plenty meaty to me.
Tonight is heart night. So we'll have to see how it goes over. They've eaten heart chunks before without issue though.
Would turkey necks count as a 3rd boney protein? Or are they too big? What about Ox Tails?
If I don't respond tonight. It's agility night with Levi. I spend the evening at the field and reception out there is spotty.
So far they are eating: Pork - Large chunks Chicken - Large chunks Beef - Large Chunks Chicken Wings - Whole Chicken Hearts - Small chunks Soupie Pork Tail - Whole (TBD)
The only things they've REALLY turned their noses up at is beef liver and salmon oil.
|
|
|
Post by LindaM on Sept 27, 2017 12:30:56 GMT -5
Turkey necks will work just fine dear. They are rather tough, so yo may wish to smash with a hammer/mallet/ulu some. Ox tail on the other hand, I don't think so. Beef bones are too dense for ferrets and they will usually just not bother with them. Also, I'll message one of the admins and check up on the pork tails.
I'm glad the wee snooters took to the pork so well, well done.
Keep trying the Dab'n'Grab method with the salmon oil, sometimes it can take them a while to get used to it, but it will be SO MUCH easier on you in the future with things if they can take to the salmon oil.
Proteins are good so far, are there others you would like to introduce to them? While 3-4 is the recommended minimum, the more variety you can provide, the better overall.
How about a quickie quiz to test some of your knowledge with raw? If you don't know some of the answers, we can discuss them and you will know them for future reference.
|
|
Kaitlyn
Junior Member
Raw and Whole Prey Feeder
Occupation: Wife, Dog Enthusiest, Ferret Lover, and Gecko Chew Toy
Posts: 170
|
Post by Kaitlyn on Sept 27, 2017 12:40:40 GMT -5
Sounds good!
I'll keep trying on the oil. They're just not interested so far. But I've also noticed, with Paint at least, he won't take anything directly from me. Even with the grab-and-dab. I have to put it in his mouth for him to taste, but he won't eat until I've left them alone for the day or night. Ratchet will happily eat from my hands though. Paint doesn't really want much to do with us unless he's biting my feet, or wants out of the cage.
I'd like to introduce some lamb, fish, turkey, and maybe duck to them if I can find some.
Quiz sounds like a good idea.
|
|
|
Post by LindaM on Sept 27, 2017 13:16:13 GMT -5
Wonderful. Hmm, wee Paint may just need some more time to get entirely adjusted and let go of his inhibitions, he will come to trust as time goes on. Just keep trying with him. : )
Proteins sound good to me, little thing to keep in mind about fish, is that it should never be given for more than one meal per week, and it will be counting as a muscle meal as I believe even a fish with bones isn't considered sufficient to count for a bone-in meal.
Okay! Quiz time! Try to answer these as best you can without looking them up just yet. If you have any wrong or struggle with any, then we can focus on working with those for a bit.
1. You have run out of hearts, gasp! Name two other items you can use to provide taurine and how much should be given? 2. Name at least 3 other organs, excluding liver. 3. Does freezing degrade taurine? 4. How many eggs should a ferret get per week and how should it be prepared? 5. How would you know whether you are giving too much or too little bone in your ferrets' diet?
|
|
Kaitlyn
Junior Member
Raw and Whole Prey Feeder
Occupation: Wife, Dog Enthusiest, Ferret Lover, and Gecko Chew Toy
Posts: 170
|
Post by Kaitlyn on Sept 27, 2017 13:33:56 GMT -5
1. You have run out of hearts, gasp! Name two other items you can use to provide taurine and how much should be given? Tongue, no idea on the rest. 2. Name at least 3 other organs, excluding liver. Spleen, kidneys, brain, sexual organs, pancreas, stomach, gallbladder, intestines (I know they won't eat these), bladder, lungs 3. Does freezing degrade taurine? No idea 4. How many eggs should a ferret get per week and how should it be prepared? 1 normally, two during shedding season, whisked together so they don't eat just the egg white, because the alone is bad for them 5. How would you know whether you are giving too much or too little bone in your ferrets' diet? Their poop would start to be chalky and dry.
I forgot to add, my order of beef spleen, kidney, and pancreas arrived today. So I'll be adding those in this week as well.
|
|
|
Post by LindaM on Sept 27, 2017 14:04:16 GMT -5
1. Yes, Beef Tongue specifically as it is high in taurine whereas others are not. The other is using a Taurine Supplement, 500mg daily, 250mg in AM meal and 250mg in PM meal. Why twice a day? Because Taurine is water-soluble it means they can excrete the excess in their urine, and with an amount that large they won't absorb it all before they pee some out. 2. Good, you know a lot of them. Bladder isn't one though, and neither are lungs, while lungs are a good addition to the raw diet it doesn't count as a secreting organ. As for stomach, yes and no, eg. pork stomach lining ends up being lower in nutrients than the other organs, and the stomach of others are considered tripe, which is often bleached and should be avoided. There is green tripe, but most ferrets won't touch the stuff. Here's a link to read up more on organs: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/13628/defines-nutritional-organ-meat3. No, freezing does not degrade taurine, but heat does. So if you ended up cooking hearts, it would be entirely useless honestly, as it has lost that nutritional value. 4. Yes, perfect answer! You can also offer yolk by itself, but whisked together is preferred if they'll take it like that. 5. Good answer on too much bone, but missed on too little. If they get too little, their poops may end up very soft and runny. Do not confuse these on organ and heart meal days, as those items will cause wet, tarry poops and it's often good to offer a bone-in meal after each of those type of meals. That's great about the organs!
|
|
Kaitlyn
Junior Member
Raw and Whole Prey Feeder
Occupation: Wife, Dog Enthusiest, Ferret Lover, and Gecko Chew Toy
Posts: 170
|
Post by Kaitlyn on Sept 27, 2017 14:07:39 GMT -5
Yay! I did better than I thought I would.
|
|
Kaitlyn
Junior Member
Raw and Whole Prey Feeder
Occupation: Wife, Dog Enthusiest, Ferret Lover, and Gecko Chew Toy
Posts: 170
|
Post by Kaitlyn on Sept 27, 2017 17:31:18 GMT -5
They ate the pork tail, bones and all. There was still some left, but they have a few hours until dinner, so I left them to it.
|
|
|
Post by LindaM on Sept 27, 2017 17:38:30 GMT -5
That's awesome news hon! Okay, so I also checked in with one of the admins and the pork tails are on the more bony-side, so you may want to add in some pork muscle meat with it when you feed it, that way we don't risk constipation in the fuzzies.
Also, good job on the quiz, and I hope the added comments helped clarify the parts that you were unsure of. I can throw another one at you later this week if you like.
|
|
Kaitlyn
Junior Member
Raw and Whole Prey Feeder
Occupation: Wife, Dog Enthusiest, Ferret Lover, and Gecko Chew Toy
Posts: 170
|
Post by Kaitlyn on Sept 27, 2017 21:20:26 GMT -5
Another quiz would be great.
I just got home from agility and fed the fuzzies. They shoved their faces in the bowl of hearts like they were starving. I actually had to give the meds around mouthfuls of heart because they wouldn't let go. Lol. Crazy boys!
Only four more doses of meds, and a recheck on Monday, yeah!
EDIT: Hearts were mostly gone this morning, just a bite or two left. I was wondering, I know they're kits, and are tummies with teeth, but when should I expect a slowdown in the amount they're consuming? I just want to know so when they do slow down I don't panic. They're averaging about 9 - 12 oz daily. Edit: omg ew, I did it. I touched liver and pancreas to put in their mouths and make them taste. They're eating around it right now. But I may be in for a surprise in the morning. Or I may need to make soupie. Edit: No soupie making, they ate it! The liver was kind of thrown around, but they ate quite a bit of it. I'm very, very happy.
|
|
|
Post by LindaM on Sept 29, 2017 20:26:37 GMT -5
When first switching to raw, many ferrets will eat extra for the first while, often several weeks, kinda like they are trying to make up for lost nutrition. They tend to start slowing down as they have to begin working for food, eg. chewing pieces and crunching bones compared to just inhaling items like soups and grinds. As kits start to approach adulthood, they stop to grow as much and thus they will decrease appetites (it's exactly the reason wee fuzzies eat so much, their bodies use that food to fuel their growth). My bunch all did a very gradual slowdown with nothing drastic at all when I switched them (I'll ask one of the mentors if they can give a specific age of where it might be most common to see a very visible slowdown occurring). BUT something to also keep in mind right now, is that we are also headed into winter and winter sees fuzzies up their food intake and put on some chubs. My lot have already begun to do this, Loki is a fatbutt, Apollo has some extra weight, Athena is putting on a bit, and Ares has yet to join the club, lol.
I'm so proud of you and the furballs! They are doing great! And well done, ferret momma, you touched the yucky for the sake of your babies. Good job!
So let's try to quiz on some other important things to know, some you may have already researched and some you might not know yet.
1. Describe the Blockage Protocol. 2. Are leaner meats or fattier meats better for your fuzzies? Explain your answer. 3. Is it a good idea to mix muscle, bone-in and organs all into a single meal? Yes or No and explain. 4. What counts as a "different protein source"? 5. What percentage of a ferret's diet should be organs? 6. Is heart considered a muscle meal? 7. You've run out of bone-in meals... what can you use for a replacement? Is this temporary or permanent? 8. What amount does the adult ferret eat on average per day?
|
|
Kaitlyn
Junior Member
Raw and Whole Prey Feeder
Occupation: Wife, Dog Enthusiest, Ferret Lover, and Gecko Chew Toy
Posts: 170
|
Post by Kaitlyn on Sept 29, 2017 21:13:39 GMT -5
1. Describe the Blockage Protocol. Push plain canned pumpkin and vaseline until poop seems clear. Even better, go to the vet. 2. Are leaner meats or fattier meats better for your fuzzies? Explain your answer. Fatter, ferrets burn fat for energy. 3. Is it a good idea to mix muscle, bone-in and organs all into a single meal? Yes or No and explain. I'm going to say yes because of while prey, but I'm not positive. 4. What counts as a "different protein source"? A different animal entirely. 5. What percentage of a ferret's diet should be organs? 10% 6. Is heart considered a muscle meal? Yes 7. You've run out of bone-in meals... what can you use for a replacement? Is this temporary or permanent? Powdered egg shell, and human grade bone meal. Powdered egg shell is only temporary. 8. What amount does the adult ferret eat on average per day? Females average 2 - 4 oz, males average 3- 5 oz
Yup. They're doing so well. I'm picking up some more varied proteins for them, and then hubby and I are going to finally sit down and prepackage their meals so all we have to do is thaw versus having to cobble meals together because we're not positive what they will and won't eat.
Also, I've noticed Paint (my problem child), his fur is greasy, almost like he's wet and clumping together. When my rodents did this something was usually wrong. He has an appointment on Monday, and I plan to ask about it then. Any ideas? I'm not ruling out water bowl swirlies as a cause either, Paint likes to dunk his head in the bowl, and Ratchet likes to stand on his head. Boys. *eyeroll*
You're right about the grey hairs. These guys have me out of my element, and it's showing.
|
|
|
Post by LindaM on Sept 29, 2017 22:06:35 GMT -5
1. Describe the Blockage Protocol. Push plain canned pumpkin and vaseline until poop seems clear. Even better, go to the vet. Correct items, but I was hoping for the process. Administer 1 tbsp of pumpkin. 1 Hour later, administer 1tsp of Vaseline. 1 Hour later, administer 1tbsp of pumpkin. 1 Hour later, administer 1tsp of Vaseline.
The process usually just takes 4 hours for nice, big, orange poops to show up. If your ferret starts vomiting or crashes at any time during the process, stop and get to the vet immediately.
If the ferret passes the object with the help of the Protocol, follow up with 1tbsp of pumpkin over the next 3 days to be sure.2. Are leaner meats or fattier meats better for your fuzzies? Explain your answer. Fatter, ferrets burn fat for energy. Correct! But keep in mind that too much fat can also be a bad thing. As always, poops are an excellent guideline, seedy poops are often a sign of undigested fats.3. Is it a good idea to mix muscle, bone-in and organs all into a single meal? Yes or No and explain. I'm going to say yes because of while prey, but I'm not positive. Actually, no. While yes, with whole prey it is different, when doing it with Frankenprey it often occurs that little fuzzies end up picking out their favorites and leaving the rest. And when feeding multiple ferrets, it can cause some to not get enough of certain items, eg. if one favors hearts and eats them all, leaving none to the rest.4. What counts as a "different protein source"? A different animal entirely. Good job.
5. What percentage of a ferret's diet should be organs? 10% Correct! (Keep in mind that 5% of that total should be liver).6. Is heart considered a muscle meal? Yes Correct! Though I and many others prefer to see Heart as it's own thing in the menu simply due to the importance of it in the diet, but it is indeed considered a muscle meat.7. You've run out of bone-in meals... what can you use for a replacement? Is this temporary or permanent? Powdered egg shell, and human grade bone meal. Powdered egg shell is only temporary. Yes! But both methods are only temporary. While bonemeal is good, it cannot properly replace actual bone, other than the dental benefits from real bone, it also retains more of its micronutrients than the bonemeal.8. What amount does the adult ferret eat on average per day? Females average 2 - 4 oz, males average 3- 5 oz Very good! Though females are actually more like 1-3oz, and the males are the ones to do 2-4oz, but there are many who will do more, so I find 3-5oz to be a good estimate.Yup. They're doing so well. I'm picking up some more varied proteins for them, and then hubby and I are going to finally sit down and prepackage their meals so all we have to do is thaw versus having to cobble meals together because we're not positive what they will and won't eat. Also, I've noticed Paint (my problem child), his fur is greasy, almost like he's wet and clumping together. When my rodents did this something was usually wrong. He has an appointment on Monday, and I plan to ask about it then. Any ideas? I'm not ruling out water bowl swirlies as a cause either, Paint likes to dunk his head in the bowl, and Ratchet likes to stand on his head. Boys. *eyeroll* You're right about the grey hairs. These guys have me out of my element, and it's showing. I don't think the furballs will give you much hassle with food at this stage, of course, it could still happen. But they have been right darlings so far with everything. Which is why introducing new proteins at this stage isn't a bad idea. Could you perhaps show me a photo of how big the current chunks of meat you are offering and they have no issue eating it? Hm, it could honestly be nothing or just related to the detox they're going through right now. Some fuzzards are just particularly oily, though most of the time that will be your intact hobs, still doesn't mean that fixed ferrets cannot be oily also. Apollo, my Waardie had the weirdest coarse, yet oily coat, but he has improved so much on his raw diet that his coat is now soft, doesn't mean that he doesn't still get oily sometimes. The underside of his throat, which is white, is yellowish right now. Albinos will also often end up yellow from the oils in their skin, my darling Athena can be snowy white.. and she can also look like she bathed in urine. As for being out of your element, nah, you are doing great dear! Soon enough, this will become your new element. Becoming ferrents can shape us in ways we never imaged, these wee floofs are truly life changers. Yes, it can be hard and they do require quite a bit of hard work from us at times and often plenty of our finances, but if you can stick with it, then you are already a much better owner than plenty of others out there who just give up at the first opposition. Hm, I don't recall right now, is your vet pro-raw?
|
|
Kaitlyn
Junior Member
Raw and Whole Prey Feeder
Occupation: Wife, Dog Enthusiest, Ferret Lover, and Gecko Chew Toy
Posts: 170
|
Post by Kaitlyn on Sept 30, 2017 7:14:36 GMT -5
I'll get you pictures of the food and the boys later today. I have to take all four canines to the vet this morning.
As for my vet, I don't know. At the time they were eating Marshalls still, and we were more concerned with Ratchets fever than food. And I've never used this vet. My normal vet only sees cats and dogs, so I had to find an exotics vet. But I'm sure it will come up at their recheck on Monday, if she doesn't bring it up, I will. Just to see what happens. Vets disapproving doesn't bother me. You should see the faces I get when vets find out Levi is intact, they act like I'm the most irresponsible person known to man, even though A) I have no plans to breed him B) I contractually can't breed him without his breeders permission C) in order to be a show dog he has to be intact. The horror of testicles! Lol
|
|