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Post by bishop24 on Jan 18, 2018 1:43:54 GMT -5
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Post by Aftershock on Jan 18, 2018 12:24:07 GMT -5
I very much appreciate all of the poop pictures! Quail- Honestly doesn't look bad at all. Chicken wing- The first one was a bit loose looking, what was the meal the night before? Second one looks like she's still adjusting to it. Honestly, what I'm seeing a lot of is what looks like her avoiding eating the bone to start with. Looks like she just eats all of the meat off of it first then eats the bone, so they are formed odd. I'm thinking quail looks the best because it's small enough she couldn't avoid the bone. The organ meal you showed me looks meh. BUT she IS a girl and they usually pee on their poop, so it can make it look slightly more watery. I'd personally like to up your bone in meals from 7 to 9 and see where that gets them though. Ellie should be getting that amount any way since she's still a kit. I think there's a possibility that Ellie is acting like Cow and LOVES bone so much she eats a ton of it and isn't leaving much for Missy, so that's why poops are looking odd. Sound like a plan?
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Post by bishop24 on Jan 20, 2018 1:33:20 GMT -5
YES! I like plans 😉 I notice that Missy is definitely the fastest eater. I guess there is too much to do any too many other mouths trying to steal her food for her to just relax and eat it all. I might try smashing up some of her bone in meals so she has to eat it. I will also do two pm meals with bone a week and see how it goes! Oh and she has pork before the chicken wing and she ate more of it than usual, just over an ounce. Do you still want me to post poop pics? I have so many now 😳 This is somewhere in between a chicken wing and bone in turkey
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Post by bishop24 on Jan 21, 2018 20:12:16 GMT -5
1. Name: Flint 2. Weight: 1390g 3. Ferret has eaten “2oz” per meal 4. Stools: good 5. Activity levels: I think his weight slows him down a bit. He gives up half way through walks now and we have to carry him home 😂 But I don’t think it’s anything to worry about. He still plays and explores just with more breaks in between... usually so he can go and eat. 6. Weekly menu: Monday am- quail Pm- pork Tuesday am- chicken wing Pm- turkey meat (dark) Wednesday am- duck bone in Pm- chicken heart Thursday am- chicken wing Pm- turkey bone in Friday am- quail Pm- chicken heart/liver beef kidney soup Saturday am- chicken wing Pm- leftover mix (chicken gizzard, turkey meat, turkey bone) Sunday am- turkey bone in Pm- chicken liver/beef kidney soup 7. Picture:
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Post by bishop24 on Jan 21, 2018 20:34:31 GMT -5
1. Name: Missy 2. Weight: 875g 3. Ferret has eaten “0.5-1oz” per meal 4. Stools: still a lot of loose poops but no diarrhea. She has had some normal formed poops as well this week! I’ve been trying to give her pieces with extra bone/ bone she can’t avoid. I’m still trying to separate her from the other ferrets for breakfast just to make sure she eats 5. Activity levels: good! It’s been pretty windy this week and the noises scared her at first. She spent the first stormy day under her blanket (its soooo cute when she just pokes the tip of her nose out 😍) but she’s been getting braver ever since! We also rearranged their play area this week so there has been a lot of activity over there 6. Weekly menu: see above 7. Picture Edit: MORE POOP PICS!!! This is chicken wing. Looks pretty good?
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Post by bishop24 on Jan 21, 2018 20:43:20 GMT -5
1. Name: Ellie 2. Weight: 890g 3. Ferret has eaten “1oz” per meal 4. Stools: good. There is a weird one here and there but I think that’s normal 5. Activity levels: hilarious! She will take Flints spot as alpha one day. She gets closer to beating him everyday. She is still bad for stealing food, Flint let out a blood curdling scream at her yesterday that sent all of the hearing members of the house running. It didn’t deter Ellie 6. Weekly menu: see above 7. Picture:
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Post by bishop24 on Jan 21, 2018 21:32:21 GMT -5
So, question about stashing. When a ferret moves their food to a hiding spot does that tell the other ferrets that it’s theirs? Fights over food only seem to happen when flint eats food from Ellie’s stash and I can’t figure out why Missy won’t eat perfectly good food that we move from Ellie’s stash back into the bowl.
I was also wondering if organs from different animals count towards the minimum 3 different types of meat? Are chicken hearts different than beef hearts? And should we be varying different types of organ meat from different animals?
And what’s your opinion on how we are doing? Is there anything we should be working on more? Anything we aren’t doing that we should be?
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Post by Aftershock on Jan 23, 2018 0:00:32 GMT -5
That poop picture looks MUCH better! So I do think we've found the problem, she's still just avoiding some of her bone in meals. I'm overall not concerned about that. Also I would keep an eye on Flint's poops since the bone in has been upped, but if he handles them well then no need to lower it! Just something to keep in mind as they get older, you will have to lower the bone in amount, but you WILL know when. The poops will just look like straight bone and fall apart easily. RE stashing- Honestly, I'm not entirely sure. I could see her avoiding it if it caused a fight because she's a submissive girly. Or it's always possible she 'forgets' that it's there because ferret logic. I know you mentioned that you tried shower hooks, but they rusted? Did you happen to put them in the dishwasher or something? It's really odd. I soaked mine in vinegar water once to get the meat smell off of them, but they've never shown rusting or anything. I do think if you can find some that don't rust your problem here will be solved. Mainly because Gator will stash and then they don't touch it the rest of the day. It's odd. I've noticed if it can't move they will munch on it until it's gone. So that's just something to think on. RE organs counting as different proteins- Sadly, no, they do not. If you feed all chicken organs it wouldn't be an issue. I personally feed beef heart and kidney because they are more available to me, but I feed chicken liver. Honestly, as long as Missy's poops have gotten happy and you don't have anymore questions/concerns, you are ready to take your ending test and graduate
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Post by bishop24 on Jan 24, 2018 10:51:46 GMT -5
Re bones: Good to know! So far Flints poops have been good and Missy’s been doing well! It’s so nice not to have to deal with messy poops, especially since Missy seems to have her own ideas on where her bathroom spots are 😪
Re stashing- Lol ferret logic. Like trying to stash the giant stuffy in the tunnel then giving up and leaving it halfway jammed in? 😂 Missy did try to challenge flint for a piece of food the other day! Little girl is getting brave! We soaked the shower hooks in soapy water before we used them and half of them rusted then the other half rusted when we rinsed them off. You would think something for the shower would do ok with water. But if at first you don’t succeed!
Re Graduation: YES! Me and Dan both feel confident in the new diet. We are very grateful for your wisdom and support 😉 I swear it’s more about training the people than it is the ferrets. And what is this about a test??
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Post by Aftershock on Jan 28, 2018 23:41:03 GMT -5
RE Missy pooping on all of the things- What are you using to clean up her messes? I use a mix of 50/50 white vinegar and water to clean things up. You may also want to try putting plastic runners down (like what goes under a computer chair) where she is going. Should at least make the messes easier to clean up!
RE Stashing- Hee hee! Raw brings out the courage in lil ferrets!
RE Graduation- I am so happy to hear you and Dan both are comfortable in the new diet! That's honestly half the battle! The ending test is just to make sure you know the basics!
Guess what! IT'S TEST TIME! (Take your time, and yes, you can scout out the answers on the forum)
1) List 2 good sources of taurine.
2) How can you tell if your ferret is getting too much or too little bone?
3) In an emergency (you run out of bone), what are 2 acceptable bone substitutes and how much should your ferrets get? (be speficic)
4) Why are cooked bones dangerous and raw bones safe?
5) List 3 organs aside from liver.
6) Is it a good idea to mix muscle meat, bone in and organs all in one meal. Explain why.
7) How much food on average should a male and female ferret each consume per DAY?
8) A- How can you tell if your ferret is too fat? B- How can you tell if your ferret is too skinny?
9) What is a healthy diet item that can be used for hairballs, and his often should you give it?
10) Are leaner meats better for your ferret or fattier meats?
BONUS- B1) Why is cooking meat generally considered inadvisable?
B2) True or False: It is best to give my ferrets meals and put the food away when they are done. (Explain why)
GOOD LUCK!!!!!
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Post by bishop24 on Jan 30, 2018 10:57:06 GMT -5
Lol, Missy is a very stubborn poop-er! We have compromised on puppy pads with her. Her favourite spot is at the front door and no amount of vinegar or natures miracle can deter her (I have literally taken the front door area apart to clean it!) We’ve had long battles trying to move her away from the door when she wants to go there. She is a sneaky little thing, she will go pee in the litter box and as soon as we turn our backs she will take a nice big poop at the door. It makes me think it might be a territorial thing because whenever I put down a fresh puppy pad she will immediately dribble anything she has left onto it. WEIRDO FERRET!!!! I think you are 100% right with her not eating her bones. I was lazy the other day and only cut a chicken wing in half. She ate all of the meat off of it and only some of the bone and had diarrhea poops after and sharp boney poops after that 😐 Feeding times are going well and everyone gathers to feast together now! We have gotten the hang of how much food to put out so everyone has enough and we don’t find a lot of uneaten stuff. We have put in a strict only stash food after you eat policy. Anyone who tries has to eat/stay in the cage until everyone else is done. I made a giant tunnel fortress on the weekend that Ellie has claimed as hers. Little girl wants to stash her food in it so we give her a few tiny pieces to hide after she finishes her regular meal I think if we let her hide all of her food in it we would never find it! Anyways, I will post my test when I get home tonight so I can use the computer. Slow day at work= excessive ferret rambling on mobile 😅
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Post by bishop24 on Jan 31, 2018 2:17:35 GMT -5
1) List 2 good sources of taurine. - Heart - Beef tongue -Im not sure where I could even get beef tongue so Im also going to put fish and dark meat 2) How can you tell if your ferret is getting too much or too little bone? Too much bone = crumbly dry poops. Too little bone = loose diarrhea poops 3) In an emergency (you run out of bone), what are 2 acceptable bone substitutes and how much should your ferrets get? (be speficic) -Bone Meal or ground egg shells -10-15% of their meal so if they are getting 5 oz of food then you add 0.5-0.75 oz of bone substitute. 4) Why are cooked bones dangerous and raw bones safe? Cooked bones are dried out and brittle and can splinter and choke/stab little unsuspecting mouths while raw bones aren't 5) List 3 organs aside from liver. - Kidney - Brain - Gallbladder 6) Is it a good idea to mix muscle meat, bone in and organs all in one meal. Explain why. I think it depends on wether its balanced or not. If its whole prey then everything is in the proper proportions and it's the way that they are actually supposed to eat but I definitely wouldn't do a 1:1:1 ratio. Im also imagining Ellie just eating all of the bone in, Missy just eating all of the organs, and Flint just plain eating everything. 7) How much food on average should a male and female ferret each consume per DAY? Male- between 2-4 oz Female- between 1-3 oz 8) A- How can you tell if your ferret is too fat? Its pretty rare to have a genuinely overweight ferret (My god it would be so cute though!) but I think that we would need to be concerned if the ferret got tired too easily and was sort of oval shaped when "dangled" B- How can you tell if your ferret is too skinny? Low energy, sunken in hips, and top heavy when dangled 9) What is a healthy diet item that can be used for hairballs, and his often should you give it? Whisked up egg or egg yolk and 1 per week 10) Are leaner meats better for your ferret or fattier meats? Fattier meats but within reason. Ferrets shouldn't eat just duck and pork BONUS- B1) Why is cooking meat generally considered inadvisable? It destroys a lot of the valuable nutrients B2) True or False: It is best to give my ferrets meals and put the food away when they are done. (Explain why) False, ferrets need to eat more than just twice a day so they will often stash a bit for later. They have tiny little digestive tracks and high metabolisms so they need several snacks in between meals to keep their war dances going Read more: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/23554/bishop24s-switching-thread-aftershock#ixzz55jwpFv00
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Post by Aftershock on Jan 31, 2018 22:05:50 GMT -5
I responded under yours!1) List 2 good sources of taurine. - Heart - Beef tongue -Im not sure where I could even get beef tongue so Im also going to put fish and dark meat Don't forget the option of powdered taurine if you are in a pinch! Powdered taurine amount is 500mg per day, and it's best to split this into two 250mg servings per day for the best results!2) How can you tell if your ferret is getting too much or too little bone? Too much bone = crumbly dry poops. Too little bone = loose diarrhea poops CORRECT3) In an emergency (you run out of bone), what are 2 acceptable bone substitutes and how much should your ferrets get? (be speficic) -Bone Meal or ground egg shells -10-15% of their meal so if they are getting 5 oz of food then you add 0.5-0.75 oz of bone substitute. Easier way to remember it- 1/2 to 3/4 tsp per 10 oz of food. Then watch poops and adjust accordingly.4) Why are cooked bones dangerous and raw bones safe? Cooked bones are dried out and brittle and can splinter and choke/stab little unsuspecting mouths while raw bones aren't CORRECT with an addition of also puncturing internal organs5) List 3 organs aside from liver. - Kidney - Brain - Gallbladder Kidney and brain, yes. Technically gallbladder counts, but good luck trying to get a ferret to eat it. Pancreas, Spleen, and reproductive organs like the Uterus and Testicles are also other good organs. 6) Is it a good idea to mix muscle meat, bone in and organs all in one meal. Explain why. I think it depends on wether its balanced or not. If its whole prey then everything is in the proper proportions and it's the way that they are actually supposed to eat but I definitely wouldn't do a 1:1:1 ratio. Im also imagining Ellie just eating all of the bone in, Missy just eating all of the organs, and Flint just plain eating everything. You've got it! The reason this is such an important question is because ferrets get favorites and things they don't like, so they either eat it all first, or completely avoid it. This unbalances everything. The only way for it to be balanced would either be soup (which is only a temp option), commercial grinds, or wholeprey. If you were to just stick chunks of liver, heart, and bone in in a bowl and offer to multiple ferrets, they are going to eat their favorites first. In my crew, Croc would eat all of the liver, Gator all of the heart, and Cow all of the bone. Better to just be safe vs sorry!7) How much food on average should a male and female ferret each consume per DAY? Male- between 2-4 oz Female- between 1-3 oz CORRECT8) A- How can you tell if your ferret is too fat? Its pretty rare to have a genuinely overweight ferret (My god it would be so cute though!) but I think that we would need to be concerned if the ferret got tired too easily and was sort of oval shaped when "dangled" B- How can you tell if your ferret is too skinny? Low energy, sunken in hips, and top heavy when dangled I think energy level is debatable, but you were completely correct on the shapes when dangled! Also.... I have a picture of an obese ferret saved on my phone... for you know... science. LMAO9) What is a healthy diet item that can be used for hairballs, and his often should you give it? Whisked up egg or egg yolk and 1 per week CORRECT10) Are leaner meats better for your ferret or fattier meats? Fattier meats but within reason. Ferrets shouldn't eat just duck and pork CORRECT (also, I just wanted to say, I love how you answered this!)BONUS- B1) Why is cooking meat generally considered inadvisable? It destroys a lot of the valuable nutrients CORRECTB2) True or False: It is best to give my ferrets meals and put the food away when they are done. (Explain why) False, ferrets need to eat more than just twice a day so they will often stash a bit for later. They have tiny little digestive tracks and high metabolisms so they need several snacks in between meals to keep their war dances going So, this is one of those tricky questions. You CAN feed once a day if your ferrets have no health problems. Mine actually eat most of their food at night, and MIGHT snack during the day. But the safest bet, especially for ferrets that have been on kibble at all, is feeding twice a day and leaving food out. This way you lower the chances of a BG crash.
Now, I've got one more thing for you to do- If you don't have any questions and wouldn't mind posting up your weekly menu (just the menu, you don't need the questionnaire) one last time, I will offer up your menu to be judged by the higher ups!
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Post by bishop24 on Feb 1, 2018 13:14:30 GMT -5
Nope! I’m all questioned out for now. I promise to post any future questions on the forum! We also found a place that sells more “exotic” meat so we are going there on the weekend to get some rabbit and possibly some other random meats.
So menu for last week was Monday: Am- duck bone in Pm- turkey neck Tuesday: Am- chicken wing Pm- pork Wednesday: Am- quail Pm- chicken hearts Thursday: Am- turkey bone in Pm- chicken gizzard Friday: Am- duck bone in Pm- liver/kidney soup Saturday: Am- quail Pm- beef Sunday: Am- chicken wing Pm- heart/organ (liver, kidney) soup
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Post by Aftershock on Feb 2, 2018 21:06:10 GMT -5
Keep in mind- You are ALWAYS more than welcome to message me if you have any questions in the future! You will graduate, but I'm ALWAYS here for you!
I have submitted your menu! Now we wait!
*does awkward ceremonial waiting dance that includes a cape, a head ferret, feathers from a 1000 year old duck, and trained dancing rats*
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