Commercial raw and FDR diet?

[Deleted]

Hello all I must admit I've been lurking around this site for awhile and I've found all the info to be extremely helpful as I got my first ferret in march and rescued another in June. Currently they're on a mix of Totally Ferret and Evo in the process of phasing out Totally ferret and replacing that with Orijen. They also get Stella and chewys FDR rehydrated in the evenings after I've removed their kibble for a bit. I recently purchased Instinct frozen raw rabbit cat food and I'm wondering when feeding solely a commercial raw/FDR diet how much do I feed and how often? My boy loves his raw food and my girl is definitely coming round to it although at the moment she prefers her kibble a bit. I know that this is typically a more expensive way to do raw but for the time being it may be the only/most convenient way for me to offer them a healthier diet so any tips/info is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time!

[LindaM]

It is definitely one of the most expensive ways of doing raw. I have four ferrets, and mine only get some Commercial (FDR & Grinds) in their weekly diet. When their diet was half Frankenprey and half of Commercial, my monthly cost on Commercial was around $200-300 for them. So be aware, it will definitely try to take a bite out of your wallet for sure.

While it's heaps better than kibble, and most certainly a method to doing raw, it does have some downsides as well. Firstly, just like with kibble, any raw soups and grinds will require you to brush your ferrets' teeth a few times a week to keep down plaque which when untreated can lead to gingivitis, then to periodontal disease and finally boneless and teeth needing to be pulled by a vet. By comparison, offering a Frankenprey/Whole Prey diet which include bone-in meals, will keep their teeth clean through diet.

Secondly, while raw-fed ferrets will generally regulate how much they are eating, this cannot quite be said the same when it comes to soups and grinds. Ferrets are notoriously lazy eaters, so when it's this easy to just slurp up/practically inhale the food, they can and sometimes will overeat and become overweight as a result.

Thirdly, your Commercial needs to be balanced. Not all Commercial products out there are balanced. A great brand, which I love for using their treats for my ferrets and cat, Vital Essentials, make a completely raw meat only product (which is obviously very appealing in appearance). But it isn't balanced. They use 40% organs for their products, and a balanced ferret diet requires only 10%, so it's much too high in organ content, and thus not balanced for them. And others, sometimes have way too many indigestible content, so you should do your best to find one that has 95% or higher meat content (muscle, organs, bone), and never, ever go below 90% for any reason at all, it will not do your ferret any good (Primal Raw is a good example of a product generally going too low in meat content). You should be okay with using S&C and some of the NV Instinct Raw products though.

[abbeytheferret6]

I recently purchased Instinct frozen raw rabbit cat food and I'm wondering when feeding solely a commercial raw/FDR diet how much do I feed and how often?

Read more: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/23382/commercial-raw-fdr-diet#ixzz4pwsXbZVc

On occasion I feed mine the frozen raw rabbit as well.


Notes given by my mentor :
The amount of food your individual ferret eats will depend on gender, age, season of the year, and his general mood. It can differ dramatically sometimes and until you become familiar with his eating habits, you will have some waste. In general (and with ferrets and their food, we ALWAYS speak in generalities), adult males eat 2-4 ounces per day, adult females 1-3 ounces per day. Kits of either gender eat 2-3 times MORE food than an adult. They all eat more when they are in the fall and winter mode, less in the spring and summer mode.

Depending on age of ferret, most people here feed their ferrets twice a day.
I fed my 12 week old about 4 times within 24 hours
Each of my girls eat more than 1 ounce a day. If there is nothing left over, you might want to put out a little more to ensure they get full.

[Deleted]

Thank you for your responses. I didn't realize it would be quite that expensive doing it this way. The thought of doing raw a less expensive way is just very overwhelming to me so I'm just trying to simplify it as much as I can for myself while still being fair to my babies. How about using the sites such as hare today? Could I manage with various grinds from that? I know I personally can't do Whole prey as I just can't stomach it being that I've had rats and guinea pigs and such as pets. However grinds and animal parts would be doable for me if I can find a straight forward way to go about it.

[LindaM]

The tooth issue will remain with any kind of grinds (whether commercial or from a raw provider such as Hare Today), you will need to brush their teeth for them. Period. And depending where you get them, they may not always be balanced. I think the grinds from Hare Today are okay. Usually, in a grind or commercial you wanna look for something in the ranges of 10% heart, 10% organ (at least 5% of that should be liver), 10-15% bone, 65-70% muscle.

But you can most certainly order from online providers, just be aware that many do a minimum limit of weight to ship an order, eg. needing to order 10lbs from them before they will ship it out, which can sometimes be just as expensive.

By comparison, doing a Frankenprey diet is the cheapest out of all the forms of raw. I do realize it seems very intimidating at first, but once you get into the hang of it, it's quite easy. Don't worry about Whole Prey if you aren't ready or willing to do that, it is quite daunting and a lot of people don't end up doing it. I love all animals, and I am currently working on myself to see if I can ever get to the stage of doing Whole Prey too. But it isn't a requirement at all, you can do a full Frankenprey diet without issues.

Are there any particular concerns or fears you have about doing something like the Frankenprey diet? Perhaps we can help make it easy to understand and help alleviate any concerns you might have with it, or answer any questions that you might have about it.

[Deleted]

I think my main comer now is simply getting started i.e. What to a buy straight off the bat and during the period of transition do I supplement with kibble to be sure the ferrets are eating enough? If not how do I make sure they stay healthy as I try to get them to adjust? Do I just try one thing at a time and as they take to it introduce something else? I suppose once myself and them are adjusted I would be fine but it's getting to that stage that worries me.

[abbeytheferret6]

Here is some reading if you have not been at this site.
holisticferretforum.com/natural-diet/raw-diet-the-meat-of-the-site/

It has a lot of info about switching---but still feel free to ask anything.Your ferret will be fine following the switch here. The chicken soupie recipe is balanced enough to see them through the process of switching .

Stages in switching
1. soupie
2. slivers of meat
3. chunks of meat
4. bone in the meat

You can skip soupie stage if your ferrets will take to any of the other stages. However, it is generally just the kits that go right into eating chunks and bone-in meats. My kit ate chicken wings that I divided at the joints right off the get go.

You can start a self switching thread while waiting on a mentor. I think you need to have 15 posts to be able to get a mentor. Also you may have to wait until one is available. I started a self switching thread before I got a mentor.

Places to look for meats---if you do the frankenprey diet, include butcher shops,grocery stores, farmer's markets, Asian stores and online. 

[Deleted]

Thank you so much! I'll definitely check out the link you shared!

[LindaM]

The easiest stage to start off with, especially if you have older ferrets/ferrets past the imprinting stage, would be the soupie stage.

During this time of switching your ferret from kibble to soup/raw, you should take kibble away a few hours before offering soupie, and return kibble a few hours after soupie/raw. Once your ferrets see the bowl of soup as food, ie. they will eat from it without you needing to use finger or spoon feeding, then you can take the kibble away permanently.

I'm also gonna link to the Intro to Raw, it has plenty of links to valuable information and instruction on raw:
holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/17480/intro-raw-newbies-read

[Sherry]

And since you are already using some freeze dried raw, you have the perfect intro to going fully raw, whether it is in the form of commercial raw grind, or whole raw meats. If you want to introduce CRG and they don't take to it right away, mix a tiny amount into the fdr mix, and slowly increase until fully on the grind. Same thing if you are going whole raw. Mix a raw meat soup into the fdr mix and increase the same way ;-)
And applying for a mentor will help you tremendously along the way

[Deleted]

Once again thank you so much! You guys are really making me feel more ready to actually do this transition. As of yesterday and today what I've done is mixed about 7 pieces of the instinct frozen rabbit with some of the turkey Stella and chewys FDR and water to rehydrate the FDR..I mash both together and serve it to them and they now immediately run to the bowl and eat. My boy definitely eats more although the girl seems to come back for more after a two minute break. I've bought a food scale so I can better portion and monitor their food. Purchased two more bags of Stella and chewys in different proteins. Hoping to work up to where I can mix mashed up/rehydrated Stella and chewys with just the chunks of frozen raw instead of having to mash up both.

[Sherry]

Males generally will eat more than females. Also you will notice once kibble is completely gone from their diet, appetites can go through the roof for a while before settling back down to a more normal amount. Combine that with winter appetites beginning to kick in and you will have some ravenous ferrets that you will honestly believe are going to eat you out of house and home for a month or so lol