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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2017 10:28:52 GMT -5
I feed my ferrets a raw diet where organs, bone and meat are all ground up and combined together, I noticed the other day that the protien and fat isnt high enough and i'm just wondering what other types of meats and stuff I can add to thier diet to ensure they're getting all they need. I tried a little bit of hard boiled egg but they didn't seem interested. I give them freeze dried chicken liver treats usually like every other day as a treat. I read that they need 3 different types of protiens, would adding the other foods work or should Inalternate their raw food between turkey, lamb, beef etc? Also on the packages it doesn't say what organs are mixed up, is it possible to give too much of a type of organ?
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Post by raynebc on Jul 14, 2017 13:11:11 GMT -5
It's best to avoid using liver as a treat, as it's very high in vitamin A and ferrets can overdose on it. Protein/fat ratios are mostly just a concern for kibble or can food diets because so much of the food is filler. If the ferret's diet is entirely meat based (just bone, meat and organs) it's plenty of protein, just make sure you aim for the prescribed ratios for heart, liver, other organ, bone, and muscle meat variety to ensure nutritional balance. As long as you're avoiding cuts of meat that are specifically lean, they should get enough fat but you can try using an extra fatty cut of meat if you're worried and the ferrets aren't overweight.
You'll want to try to find out what ratio of which ingredients are in the ground raw diet, it might give too much or too little of something important.
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Post by LindaM on Jul 14, 2017 14:13:47 GMT -5
If you are doing grinds, they need to be balanced. The ratios for a ferret diet is 10% organ (5% liver, 5% other), 10% heart, 10-15% bone, 65-70% muscle. And be very careful about additives or tenderizers in the food. Is there a specific brand you use?
Ferrets shouldn't get any cooked food, it has no value or place in their lives, as cooked food possesses no nutritional value anymore, it's the equivalent of eating cardboard.
As has been mentioned, liver shouldn't be your treat option, it's too easy to give too much. Vitamin A, which liver is rich in, is a fat-soluble vitamin (unlike water-soluble which is excreted in urine), meaning it can build-up in the body and lead to a toxicity if given too much, too frequent.
If you wish to do FDR (Freeze-Dried Raw) treats, I suggest the following brands Vital Essentials, Sojo's Simply, and Orijen. PureBites can work, but most of theirs are liver-based. Those other brands offer a variety of proteins and all sorts of little munchies. Also, keep in mind, never too much FDR treats at a time, as FDR absorbs the moisture from whatever touches it, so if you don't hydrate it (which we commonly do when feeding as a food), it can dehydrate the ferret.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2017 15:50:01 GMT -5
I use Big Country Raw food, they have a website with all kinds of foods but I just do the pure formulas so theres no vegetables or anything like that. I gave them chicken heart today and one loved it! The other was picky but seemed like he might like it eventually. Is it possible for them to have too much heart? Or gizzard as well? I know heart contains lots of taurine which I heard was good for them. Should I alternate the type of raw food I feed so they have more types of proteins?
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Post by LindaM on Jul 14, 2017 16:19:21 GMT -5
If I looked at the correct product, it looks decent. BUT! Even 100% raw meat formulas can be unbalanced, and an unbalanced raw diet can be very dangerous. So I'd advise to contact the company and ask them for a more-or-less ratio percentage on organs, heart, bone and muscle, that way you can see if it is balanced or not. When I first came across Vital Essentials, I thought "YES!" because it was full of only meat, and protein specific too, not blends... but the organ percentage was through the roof (45%), so not balanced enough for ferret use.
No... and yes... hearts are chock-full of Taurine, which is water-soluble.. so they can't "technically" have too much, but too many will definitely screw up their tummies and lead to nasty diarrhea and can also unbalance the diet.
Gizzards are a muscle meat, so again, too much can unbalance the diet, and lead to poops that are too soft.
As for more proteins, 3 different proteins is the BARE minimum, the more you can offer, the better, always.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2017 23:26:30 GMT -5
There is a ratio on the back of the boxes and its usually around 70/20/10, meat/bone/muscle give or take in some spots, its also different depending on the type, the one above is for duck but I noticed it was different for the beef (we feed it to our dog as well). What other food could I feed them to vary their protiens? I just wanna make sure I give them the best diet possible.
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Post by LindaM on Jul 14, 2017 23:57:15 GMT -5
Is the 70 for muscle and 10 for organs? You kinda list it twice.. meat would be muscle meat.
It does happen in a brand that they make some suitable products and some that aren't when you look at the ratios, so you will need to keep an eye out for that.
These are all raw grinds though... do you plan to keep them on commercial raw only? You mention wanting to give the best diet possible, the ideal outcome for that is to offer the Frankeprey/Whole Prey diet, which is still better than commercial raw as it comes with benefits such as strengthening jaw, cleaning teeth, and preventing overeating. So, are you planning to move them along from commercial or just prefer to keep them on it?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 22:29:19 GMT -5
Sorry yes the 10 was for organs and i was hoping to keep the grinds as the main food source and add other protiens and foods like whole prey as well. I live in a small town and wouldnt be able to find a reliable provider to put them on a strictly whole prey diet. So in combination with the grinds what other types of foods could i feed them to get the proper amount of proteins and keep them healthy?
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Post by LindaM on Jul 15, 2017 22:51:10 GMT -5
Well, proteins are simply different types of animals being given. So you can give as many of that, in whatever form you wish honestly (barring some limitations I will list below), that you can find. BUT if you wish to do commercial raw along with frankenprey or whole prey, you will need to balance out your diet properly. You can use this link (it'll show how many of which meal you need after you pick how many meals of grinds you wish to do): holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/17989/balancing-frankenprey-diets-prey-grindsCurrently, I also feed a mixed diet, which includes Frankenprey and Commercial grinds, I hope to soon do some Whole Prey as well, and cut back more on the commercial part of their diet. The proteins my kids eat are chicken (less so since Athena seems to have a sensitivity to that), beef (they hate this one), pork, lamb, turkey, duck, rabbit, pheasant, quail, venison, frog, salmon, goat, etc. Now, depending on the protein, and your chosen balance of meals from that chart, that will help you decide what to give. Certain proteins do not have edible bone-in meats for the Frakenprey menu, ie. beef bones.. they are just too dense for ferrets, but the organs and muscle meat will do just fine. But if you have several meals of grinds, for example, you may not have many muscle or organ meals left for the week and mostly bone-in meals.. so then you might need to use other proteins that do have edible bones, eg. chicken, duck, turkey, pheasant, quail, rabbit, frog... This link lists some good bone-in sources for the Frankenprey menu: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/146/meat-bone-organ-weekly-menu
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 11:21:14 GMT -5
If i stick with the grinds should I just change it up each package so they get the different types?
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Post by LindaM on Jul 16, 2017 13:25:29 GMT -5
You can do that, best is to rotate the proteins throughout the whole week, so they do not have too many days in a row of the same thing.
Please remember though, with a diet of grinds only (or even just a grinds-heavy diet) you need to brush your ferrets' teeth several times a week to resolve plaque build-up or it ca lead to gingivitis, then periodontal disease and finally the vet may need to pull wee teethsies out.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 11:50:09 GMT -5
Theres also some grinds that have 3 different animals in it like the Farm Fest for example has beef, lamb and turkey, would that be a good way to get the 3 main protiens?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 11:52:49 GMT -5
Theres also a game bird blend that had cornish hen, duck and pheasant. For treats they also have things like dehydrated shciken feet, necks, breasts, wings would that be okay to give them occasionally?
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Post by LindaM on Jul 21, 2017 12:27:50 GMT -5
We don't usually advise offering mixed proteins like that. Sometimes a ferret has a sensitivity to a certain protein, and when mixed like that it's hard to figure out which one, and secondly, it would make all the food useless then because you cannot undo the mix.
I mostly give my ferrets Freeze-Dried Raw treats from Orjien, Vital Essentials, and Sojo's Simply myself.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2017 10:25:14 GMT -5
[secondly, it would make all the food useless then because you cannot undo the mix.] Sorry if this seems like a stupid question but what do you mean by it would make it useless?
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