How to Introduce FDR?

[Deleted]

I'm doing my own thing rn, but it's really hard.

My ferret who has insulinoma is very adventurous with food and will try just about anything. I made a mix of stella and chewys duck (FDR), rabbit (raw frozen), and chicken (FDR). Lena (the adventurous one) licks it off my fingers but doesn't stay interested for long and my other ferret Mika (Mee-kuh) I had to kind of force it on her (which I HATED). Of course I'm gentle with her, but it's freaking DIFFICULT! I let them eat it off my finger once a day (since I've started Friday on 7/7), but Mika is just too much to handle. On Friday I had to scruff her and rub my finger on her mouth so she could lick it off and I put a little in her mouth (doing with love and care), and on Saturday she licked A LITTLE off my finger (I think bc the first time her food was a little cold, when she licked it off my finger the next day it was room temperature). I don't know what to do to get them to eat this. Was it bc I mixed too much meat together? Maybe start off with one meat and work my way up? Should I spike it with some healthy tasty gravy? 

I really want to get them away from a JUST kibble diet. My ferret with insulinoma (Lena) especially, bc I want to prolong her life through diet too instead of just meds.

[Sherry]

Do exactly what you have been doing, but do it every 5 to 10 minutes. It may take a while with the "grab and dab" for your more stubborn one, but she will get there. Also, try using a spoon and feeding while on your lap. Don't let them get away first time they try. Keep offering, keep the spoon in front of their nose/mouth. Stop and let go after a bit and do it again later. Like 10 or 15 minutes later.

[Deleted]

Thank you! Thought I was doing something wrong, why the spoon idea? tbh, they won't take to the spoon to kindly, lol.

[LindaM]

Why the spoon? There's a couple reasons really. Some people don't want to touch the raw and instead offer with a spoon. But overall, the more practical reason is the switching process. Older ferrets are harder to switch than the babies, so for them the process often goes as follows.. offer with finger -> move to spoon and offer on spoon -> place spoon in bowl to allow eating from bowl -> ferret eats from bowl by themselves. It's also easier to offer the entire bowl of food by spoon than by finger, lol, especially when offering a new protein to stubborn fuzzers.

My Apollo is a Waarie (ferret with Waardenburg Syndrome/Neural Crest Disorder), so he's special in many ways. We've honestly come to see him the same as one might a kid with autism. He just experiences the world differently and is special to us in so many ways. Hubby and I fawn over him terribly, lol. But one of his intricacies is that when I put out a meal, I need to offer him a bite or two with a spoon first and only then will he feel it's safe to eat from the bowl by himself (later in the day snacking the leftovers he'll do as he wishes, but every fresh meal needs to be done like that first).

Sitting with your fuzzie in your lap and offering them food from the spoon is also often used as a bonding activity while they learn to eat a new protein. It helps them because they will trust you, and you are handling them with care and love in that manner too. This doesn't become a general thing though, or they will become spoiled to the point it's hard to get them to eat without you spoon feeding. And don't be surprised if they repay you by using you or your clothing to clean their faces on afterwards, mine LOVE saying "thank you" like that.

[Deleted]

I really try to be consistent with when I feed them and how long I should assist in feeding them with my finger rn. I like the spoon idea and I'll definitely do that bc my fingers get really messy, lol. I skip days bc I forget sometimes and I feel bad about it. I've just started last Friday 7/7/17. But I will continue to try to get myself on a better schedule. How many times should I feed a ferret a day on a FDR diet? One has insulinoma. And what's the longest I should keep prepared FDR in the fridge for?

[Sherry]

As for how long? It varies from ferret to ferret. As Linda mentioned, the steps are generally grab and dab, finger feeding from lap, spoon feeding from lap, moving spoon closer and closer to dish til ferret eating from dish on lap. Then moving dish/ferret to where you want them to be. Often once that is done, you will need to 'prime" them by offering a first taste from finger or spoon.
It all seems to come down to trust. To them, you are their ferret parent, and they trust you to teach them something won't poison them. While past the age of "if you give it to me I know it is safe", it still does come down to them seeing you feeding them as being mum.

[LindaM]

Exactly as Sherry said, you are now ferret momma. They look up to you to let them know what is safe, it is part of that bond of trust, and through the actions mentioned above, it can also strengthen that bond more. Don't be concerned if they throw a tantrum or try to be difficult while you switch them either, ferrets are like little toddlers and you are teaching them to eat their "veggies"! And who ever likes that, right? Haha. But at the end of the day, momma knows best and they will come to understand that.

Insulinoma ferrets should have food available at all times, so you might need to do an extra meal or so in the day compared to the rest of us I think. I don't have one with insulinoma, and hopefully I never will, so I might be wrong. Sherry, opinion?

The rest of us who feed Frankenprey or Commercial (Frozen & FDR grinds), feed two meals a day, a morning meal and an evening meal. The Whole Prey feeders on the other hand can easily get away with even just doing a single meal in the day depending on what's given. But many of us free-feed, so we put out food and leave it out for the ferrets to access whenever they wish until their next meal time when we change it. We also check to make sure the amount we offered, eg. by the time of meal change, it's good to have at least a bite remaining in the bowls, versus a licked clean bowl which may be a sign that someone didn't eat all they wanted because the bowl was empty.

As for doing prepared FDR, on the days I feed commercial, I prepare each ferret's FDR/Frozen in their bowl for that meal. I don't prepare ahead, because once wetted the longer FDR stands, the more the top starts to dry out a bit. Using cling wrap in the fridge may overcome that, but I am not sure on how long it can be in there really as I've never tested it. I suppose one might apply the leftover food rule, no more than 2-3 days.. but then that could be wrong for this for all I know too, lol.

[Deleted]

Yes, they do treat it like their eating veggies, well at least one of them. I thought they'd attack it since this is what their diet is supposed to be. But they're teaching me and I'm teaching them.

You say on the days you use FDR. Is it not wise to use FDR as their main source of raw food? It's convenient for me which is why I love FDR and leaving it out won't cause any bacterial growth problems? I mentioned this in my newest post.

[LindaM]

They would, if they got taught it was food when they were babies, which is why some breeders start them off right, like Heather . I'll link to the thread where one of her jills recently produced a litter of kits and where they are now happily nomming away on raw.
holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/23145/lady-aphrodite-announcement

But the pet store kits.. the ones from the ferret farms.. they are not taught this at all. Heck, they're taken away from their mums WAY too young, and then put onto a mush of crushed up Marshall's kibble and water, and then onto Marshall's kibble from there. It's all they've been taught. Now, ferrets have an imprinting stage up until around 6-8 months of age I believe. During this time, you can offer them different food and they should take to it pretty easy. After that age, they don't see what you offer as being edible, hence needing to teach them that it is safe to eat and won't poison them.

I feed completely raw, no kibble exists in my home. I say on the days I do Commercial, because I have a mixed diet. I offer Frankenprey and Commercial (FDR/Frozen), balanced with each other so they don't upset the diet. And actually, no. It's better to do Frankeprey or Whole Prey, than Commercial like Frozen grinds and FDR (I'll list reasons below). I feed the Commercial part of my diet, solely so that they remain used to it, should I ever have an emergency or someone who needs to take care of them for me for a while really refuses doing the Frankenprey. And if I get to the stage where I can easily offer Whole Prey to them, I will cut my Commercial diet out even more.


FDR poses the following problems (I believe I've mentioned before in another thread, but I'll do it again for sake of convenience):
* A ferret used to eating FDR before being made used to eating Frankenprey first, will often be harder to switch onto Frankenprey later on.
* FDR (or any other commercial grind) can cause overeating pretty easily, whereas on Frankenprey and Whole Prey which forces them to chew, will make them regulate how much they eat, so they eat what they need, instead of just slurp everything up because it is easy. As we know, being overweight for any living thing, is not healthy.
* All grinds negatively affect teeth, same as kibble, you need to brush several times a week to combat plaque build-up, or it will lead to gingivitis, then to periodontal disease, and finally, fuzzy may need a tooth to be pulled.


Yes, it's quite convenient to feed to your ferrets, but it's certainly not the best. That said, it's definitely better than kibble, as it is still a form of raw that is being fed, and it contains moisture (which you add), and allows the ferret to absorb that moisture from their food as all carnivores are meant to do.

With Frankenprey and Whole Prey, the ferret chews, it's great for their jaws, and crunching the bones helps clean their teeth for them, and it all promotes good GI tract health. You also do not need to worry about any added indigestibles such as grains, veggies, fruits or added synthetic substances. Thus, it's better.

There is a time-frame for how long each raw can remain out:
Soups: 6-8 hours
Grinds: 8-12 hours
Chunks: 10-24 hours (depending on size eg. the bigger the chunks are, the longer they'll last)
Bone-in Meats: 12-24 hours (again, depending on size)
Whole Prey: up to 48 hours

Obviously, on hotter days you may need to shorten the times, but I keep my entire home set at ever higher than 72F in temperature.

[Deleted]

LindaM So I should ultimately feed them frankenprey first, introduced as a soupie (I'll need to mix FDR as a source of bone however). Then use the finger-to-spoon-to-spoon in bowl method until they eat willingly. Sounds easy, I can do that. All I need is patience, really.

[Sherry]

To speak to the insulinoma factor. I feed commercial raw in the morning, frankenprey in the evening. At times I had to offer an extra meal during the late after noon, particularly during the time they were diet controlled before being medicated.

[Deleted]

Yes, thank you. My ferret who has insulinoma is the one who eats the most anyway. So I'm sure she won't mind three square meals a day plus a hearty snack, lol.

And the commercial in the morning with frankenprey in the evening sounds super realistic for me, thanks for the idea!

[Deleted]

How do you guys get bone from a chicken or any other animal into small pieces so they won't choke? That's my biggest issue rn. Which is why I prefer FDR as the source of bone for now.

[LindaM]

I'm gonna throw some homework at you, lol. Have a look at these links, they may help answer some of those questions.

This is a chart that allows you to balance a menu of Frankenprey and Alternative Meals such as Commercial:
holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/17989/balancing-frankenprey-diets-prey-grinds

This link shows the progression of sizes of meat during the switch:
holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/4341/standardized-sizing-etc-meats

This link shows how to smash up bone for beginner ferrets:
holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/18359/smashing-bone-beginner-ferrets

So, before you offer bone, it helps to start strengthening your ferret's jaws, gizzards are a great way of doing this as it is VERY chewy. Since your fuzzies are older and new to the switch, you will likely need to progress the gradual way of going soup-mince-slivers-chunks-bone-in. So getting them to eat raw soup will be your challenge for now, but please give those links a good read, it always helps to get some knowledge beforehand. And fuzzies are carnivores with very sharp and strong teeth, they can munch and crunch through bones easily, it's those smaller pieces that they may try to swallow whole that can make them choke, it's less of a risk if they need to work for it themselves.