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Post by hiddenstars826 on Sept 5, 2017 22:39:23 GMT -5
This is what's left of what Sammy and Dean had the other day. They did a good job of it, and I could hear them crunching on it throughout the night.
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Post by hiddenstars826 on Sept 6, 2017 9:40:29 GMT -5
Breakfast this morning is chicken necks for the younger kids. The girls got 3 of them, about 3 oz total, smashed and cut up. Monday wouldn't care, but Tink has been backing off bigger sections of bone-in and avoiding them. The boys got about 2 oz, I didn't bother smashing theirs and we'll see how they do with it. This is the first time they've been "un-smashed" for them, but I think they can handle it.
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Post by Sherry on Sept 6, 2017 10:05:35 GMT -5
They are doing SO well! Can you do me a favour and write up a menu of what they are now eating? Sort of a Monday- Sunday thing. Monday am- chicken wings Monday pm- hearts And so on.
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Post by hiddenstars826 on Sept 6, 2017 10:14:32 GMT -5
Thank you! The girls, I can't take credit for, they came this way and I'm the novice! But I'm so proud of my boys! They haven't looked back! Chicken necks have disappeared from the boys. Not sure if that means they ate them, or if Sammy stashed them...I cannot easily see to the top of the cage (clearly that's where they stash stuff!) so I won't know until later. Yes, for sure for a menu. I got a little lazy/busy (okay, mostly lazy) and they got a lot of grinds last week, but we're on track this week even though it's half over hahaha. I may need some help with this part, though.
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Post by hiddenstars826 on Sept 6, 2017 10:25:54 GMT -5
The planned menu for this week so far Weds am: chicken necks Weds pm: liver Thurs am: heart/kidney Thurs pm: grind, probably rabbit? Fri am: chicken breast Fri pm: chicken necks, most likely Sat am: liver Sat pm: more bone-in Sun am: muscle meat (turkey) Sun pm: egg night Monday am: heart/kidney Monday pm: grind Tues am: chicken wings? Tues pm: heart (I think, I am pretty sure I have 3 meals portioned of that)
I've been giving some grinds in between as "lunch" for the baby and the boys. The boys have been cleaning up their meals well, and the baby hasn't gained anything in a few weeks so I don't think I'm offering her enough. Oops.
I'd heard that any chicken needs to be frozen for a period of 2 weeks? Is that true? I need to get more muscle/bone in sources and chicken is the easiest to obtain around here so far, but I don't usually see previously-frozen chicken in the stores.
The liver/kidney is pork, the heart is beef. I know I'm missing a couple of days, those may end up being grind days depending on what I can source this weekend.
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Post by hiddenstars826 on Sept 7, 2017 11:19:33 GMT -5
No traces of chicken necks left over for the boys, the girls have a few smaller chunks left and some bone pieces. Liver was dinner last night. The boys scarfed theirs up. Monday ate well, and Tinker was not exactly thrilled about the offering. I had to grab and dab a bit with her, and eventually she took a piece and "hid" it. She did that a few more times (oh yay) and later last night was eating from the bowl so I guess she got SOME. There were a few pieces left over this morning so the boys got them.
Kidney/heart for breakfast. The boys were thrilled, even Sam didn't stick his nose up. Of course, Sam later choked on a kidney chunk and vomited some up. If I had to guess, they were probably arguing over it. The girls ate a few pieces, or at least Monday did. Tink I saw with a piece, but there are a bunch of pieces "stashed" around the bowl. She's hit that picky toddler stage, it appears. Monday doesn't care, Monday loves her organ meats. There's enough leftover that they don't need lunch today. Tonight I'll let the boys raid their house to clean up whatever leftovers they still have. I swear, these boys are like teenagers, eating me out of house and home.
Peter's back to being finicky about his meals. He was eating a little better and prefers the "broth", so I may work a little more of a grind into his food over the next few meals and see how he likes it again. I wish wish wish I could get him eating better so I could get him onto bigger pieces. I regret not doing that sooner, his teeth are such a disaster now.
The boys teeth, though...omg. Those teeth look so so amazing. I am so mad I didn't get before photos, but I never ever thought it would make such a difference so quickly with their teeth getting cleaner. I cannot wait for their appointment next year to point out the lack of tarter on those bad boys! Another reason I wish I could get Peter on bigger pieces, even a little bit would help his teeth. The cat, too. Last year they mentioned she had some tarter build up and would need a dental next year (which is now). I really would like to avoid that!
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Post by LindaM on Sept 7, 2017 14:36:39 GMT -5
The fuzzers sound like they are doing really well! I'm sure Sherry will check out your menu too and comment on it. I would just like to point out that it's not really balanced right now, you have too many heart meals in there. And is there a specific reason you are doing the kidney (other organ) with heart, instead of in the organ meal with liver? So for the Frankenprey menu, you need 1.5 meals of heart, and 1.5 meals of organs. Most people end up doing one full heart meal, and one full organ meal, and then one meal mixed of half heart and half organs. So your heart and organ meals together end up totaling 3 meals for the entire week. I've also seen some people combine heart and organ meals entirely, doing half heart and half organs (1/4 liver, 1/4 other) for 3 full meals spaced through the week. When your grinds are balanced, they are considered a "complete meal" as in they contain "muscle, bone and organs" versus say just ground muscle meat which would just remain a muscle meal, so to make sure that your menu balances these alternative meals along with your Frankenprey meals, you should use this chart: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/17989/balancing-frankenprey-diets-prey-grindsAs for working on variety, do you have an Asian/Ethnic store near you? These shops are great sources for variety and much cheaper than most other stores or ordering online. I can always get quail, rabbit and duck without any issues at all.
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Post by hiddenstars826 on Sept 7, 2017 14:59:41 GMT -5
I can't do quotes on my phone so I apologize in advance.
I portioned 3 bags of heart up based on what I had calculated their weekly need of. Perhaps i did that wrong? I don't have it in front of me while I'm at work so cannot see what I did 100%. But I know that I took their totals for the week and split them up into "individual meal" baggies. I combined the kidney because they don't get a lot of it, so it went with the hearts. Now that I'm thinking of it, maybe I DID calculate wrong...they have enough lover for a full meal of that...the organ part, is it supposed to be half liver/ half other organ? Hmmm...not sure what exactly I did.
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Post by hiddenstars826 on Sept 7, 2017 15:01:52 GMT -5
If I jam all their organ and heart into only 3 meals, that will be a LOT of food for those meals...
Our grinds are complete, yes. I looked at the chart before but was a bit confused, this menu thing is a little confusing to me in general. I'll take another look at the chart again.
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Post by LindaM on Sept 7, 2017 17:23:20 GMT -5
So for organs, it's recommended to do liver + another other organ if you can (at least HALF of your organ meals MUST be liver though). If in a pinch and you cannot do another organ for a bit, then you can do the full organ meal as only liver, until you can source another organ to add with it. So usually, you will have half of the meal be liver, and the other half be another secreting organ, eg. kidney/spleen/pancreas/brains/uteri/testes, etc. So in your case since you do have kidney (honestly, the easiest to find usually), you can offer liver+kidney for their organ meals. They will eat 1.5 (one and a half) organ meals for the entire week on the Frankenprey menu. Same goes for heart, they will eat 1.5 heart meals for the entire week. Meal portions are based on how much your ferrets eat, this doesn't increase or decrease the amount of meals offered in the week though, only how much is given at each meal. For example, Athena my girlie eats around 2oz a day. So if she has an organ meal and a say a muscle meal on one day, she will eat 1oz of organs, and 1oz of muscle for that day. I always give slightly more than they eat though so that there is usually a bite or two left at the change of meals, that way I can be sure everyone ate enough and didn't go hungry. This should be helpful in helping you plan a weekly menu: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/146/meat-bone-organ-weekly-menuFor Frankenprey Menu, it's usually 7-9 meals Bone-in, 2-4 meals Muscle, 1.5 meals Organs, 1.5 meals Heart and totals at 14 meals a week. (While technically heart is a muscle meal, because of its sheer importance in the diet, I count it by itself so it's easier to understand). And to use the Balancing Chart because you also use Grinds, this is the easiest way I found to look at it. If your menu does say 2 grind meals, that means 12 Frankenprey meals, so 2+12 totals 14 meals for the week. Look at the line showing 2 Whole Prey/Alternative meals, it shows 2 of WP, 12FP, and of the 12FP it needs to be the following on your menu; 8 bone-in meals, 1 muscle meal, 1.5 organ meals, and 1.5 heart meals, add it all together to make sure 2+12= 14 / 2+8+1+1.5+1.5= 14 You pretty much just do the same with any of the other lines after deciding how many meals would be Alternative (Grinds/FDR/Whole Prey). Let me know if that helps to explain the menu and chart better or if you need me to help clarify anything else. You guys are off to a very good start, so don't let the menu intimidate you at all. ; ) The menus will usually change several times over still until it is fully balanced for your ferrets and as you add more different proteins into their diet as well.
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Post by Sherry on Sept 8, 2017 8:58:13 GMT -5
The only tweaks at the moment I would make to your menu would be to switch liver and heart. Instead of two liver meals(too much liver), and 2 meals heart/kidney(not enough heart)- do one meal heart, one meal liver/kidney, and one meal heart/liver/kidney. As for the Tues pm heart meal, you can leave that one if you like. The extra taurine is simply excreted from the body, and heart is, after all a muscle meat.
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Post by Sherry on Sept 8, 2017 9:01:15 GMT -5
Let me correct that upon further reading lol. You have at most 6 bone meals(including the grinds) if I am reading it correctly. You should add in an extra bone meal to bring them to the minimum of 7-9 bone meals required. what you CAN do if you like is mix the egg into the grinds for them, and put an extra bone meal there.
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Post by hiddenstars826 on Sept 8, 2017 11:02:07 GMT -5
The only tweaks at the moment I would make to your menu would be to switch liver and heart. Instead of two liver meals(too much liver), and 2 meals heart/kidney(not enough heart)- do one meal heart, one meal liver/kidney, and one meal heart/liver/kidney. As for the Tues pm heart meal, you can leave that one if you like. The extra taurine is simply excreted from the body, and heart is, after all a muscle meat. That was my other thinking: I'd rather have too much heart/taurine than too little, so added extra in. Is there a way to tweak it and *not* combine liver with the other organs? The boys it doesn't matter so much, they are like little vacuums. But Monday will scarf ALL of the liver before going near anything else. Tink isn't a huge fan of it right now, so if she eats hesitantly mom is already over there eating the rest from HER bowl! Tink is happy to let her do that so she doesn't have to eat what she doesn't want.
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Post by hiddenstars826 on Sept 8, 2017 11:03:37 GMT -5
So I'll add a bone meal in there for Sunday pm, and make their egg soup for perhaps an afternoon meal.
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Post by FireAngel on Sept 8, 2017 22:26:10 GMT -5
The easiest way to prevent one eating too much of any type of organ or avoiding it is to make it into a soup. : )
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