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Post by LindaM on Jun 2, 2017 16:50:43 GMT -5
That's wonderful! I'm so glad to hear that Spazz finally came around on to eating her slivers. So proud! You can try and see how the girls take to doing half-half, sometimes a new protein gets accepted quickly by some ferrets, other times it takes a more gradual introduction. If they don't want to touch half mixed in there, you might try doing just a quarter and see. If really stubborn about it, then just toss a few slivers in that can get eaten by "mistake".
How are the girls doing on eating slivers of their heart and organ meals right now?
Many owners opt to do a partial of Frankenprey and Whole Prey, so you're totally fine to do that. Have you thought about which kinds of WP you'd like to use for them when you get to that stage? (Sorry if I've already asked this and you answered before, I can't quite recall right now, I'm a little bit spacey after my doctor visit today.)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2017 8:57:14 GMT -5
LindaM yes im super happy with spazz eating shes stubborn but so is momma, As for rabbit I think its stolen spazz heart, I put some in there this morning a mixture of slivers and a couple pieces were to small to cut into slivers but not huge so I put them in...soon as she sniffed her bowl she had a mouth full of rabbit!!! Both girls get their heart and liver sliced as slivers also though im debating puree them together, they get it mixed in when I was trying to get them to slivers but today I have it all slice and portioned separate to see exactly how much of each both girls are eating. Ive seen mimi eat heart and liver slivers its pretty much her first go to but im not so sure about spazz (shes sneaky). I'm thinking rabbit, quail, pheasants (I think I can get these whole, maybe whole rats? I know the mice aren't sufficient in nutritional value for my girls but are whole rats?, im drawing a blank any others come to mind for you? Im still new so sometimes I think I forget what all whole prey is optional....cant do guinea pigs had them as pets and turns my stomach to think of it.
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Post by LindaM on Jun 3, 2017 13:47:00 GMT -5
I'm so glad they took so well to the idea of rabbit! Good job! Rabbit is also a favorite protein in our house for my fuzzies, along with duck. They all gather at my feet and I even get my toes chewed on if I don't prepare food fast enough, and on portioning and prep days, I need to give little snack treats as I work. Let me know how they do with those then, specifically Spazz. If they're alright in eating the hearts and organ meals as slivers or bigger chunks then that's really good. I have 4 little snots who like to stash those specific meals, and unlike the other types of raw meat, they do not simply air-dry, so my lot get their heart and organ meals as small slivers or even as a puree.. so that I can watch them eat it all. (FDR Heart Treats.. those they will just inhale in front of you for some reason.. normal chicken heart.. no that get's stashed). As for the WP options, those all sound good, they can eat the whole rabbit and whole quail for sure.. I'm not sure if they can eat the entire pheasant, some bones might be a bit tough eg. thigh bones, but mine love getting pheasant as a protein. As for mice, those are fine to give as well, and many WP feeders do, but the mice should be adults, not pinkies or the like, since immature animals are not fully developed nutritionally. Part of the whole bare minimum of 3 different proteins, preferably more though, is to try and get all nutritional bases covered since animals tend to vary on levels between one another as well. So you can do mice, rats, and ASF rats too (I believe there's a protein difference in normal rats vs ASFs, but I am not sure). Gonna tag katt for advice/opinion on the whole prey options.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2017 14:47:30 GMT -5
06/05/17 Monday Spazz 1. Ferret's name: Spazz 2. Ferret's weight: 1 lbs. 15oz 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. 1-2oz 4. Stools on various proteins. A little runny but nothing really watery, (Should I add more bone meal?)Colors normal, sometimes a little chunky from food but that seems to be clearing up with the girls chewing more. 5. Activity levels: Normal, playful, active (have yet to see any change in activity, should they be more active?) 6. Weekly menu: Slivers of: Chicken, Rabbit, Chicken Liver and Chicken heart. Mimi 1. Ferret's name: Mimi 2. Ferret's weight: 1 lbs. 10oz 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. 1-3oz 4. Stools on various proteins. A little runny but nothing really watery, (Should I add more bone meal?)Colors normal, sometimes a little chunky from food but that seems to be clearing up with the girls chewing more. 5. Activity levels: Normal, playful, active (have yet to see any change in activity, should they be more active?) 6. Weekly menu: Slivers of: Chicken, Rabbit, Chicken Liver and Chicken heart.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2017 14:56:17 GMT -5
LindaM SOOOO im super freaking excited....both girls are eating the rabbit easily with no problems, although they ignored the chicken a little this time maybe they are bored with it? For your earlier question on the heart and liver this seems to be mimis go to first then she eats the other things. Im not pureeing the heart and liver because both girls are eating them with no issues I cute the chicken hearts into fours and they eat it just fine, the liver I slice up like slivers and they do well with this also. Also another yay moment, both girls are finally happily chewing/eating gizzards!!!! I've been putting like one or two sliced up (sliced in half) in their bowl just to see and they are actually chewing and eating. Ive searched their play area and not yet found any food stashed, I constantly looks just to make sure the girls are actually eating what disappears from their bowl. Got them a duck on Friday going to thaw it and cut it up and portion it in bags, will wait a couple days using just the rabbit and chicken then try the duck and see how the girls do. Im 100% on the WP rabbit, quail and rats...I still want to do franken prey as well. What is ASF rats?
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Post by LindaM on Jun 5, 2017 17:19:13 GMT -5
The girls could be getting tired of the chicken, or simply like the rabbit more. It is not uncommon for them to behave this way, especially if they find a protein they enjoy. If they're happy about eating the rabbit, you can do rabbit only meals as well, instead of mixed with the chicken to see how they do. You can also try introducing the duck at this stage mixed in with either chicken or rabbit. Since they like the rabbit so much, let's see if we can increase the size of the slivers. Can you upload a photo of how big the slivers are that they're currently getting with it? If the stools are runny, you may need to add a bit more bone powder and see if it improves. How much are you currently adding? The measure is 1/2 to 3/4 tsp per 10oz of meat fed. Poops can also be a bit off again for a short while every time a new protein gets introduced. I'm glad they are happily eating their organ and heart meals then. What are you using for your other organ half in the organ meals? When you say Mimi goes for it first and then others, are you feeding them these meals as like on the Frankenprey weekly menu (1 meal of hearts only, 1 meal of organs only, and 1 meal of half each together), or a bit added with every meal? It's not really advised to mix meal types (other than that one heart+organ meal), as ferrets are prone to picking out favorites and ignoring others, it's also hard to remedy if one should show a reaction to a certain protein but everything is all mixed together, it makes it hard to track the culprit. Even more so with multiple ferrets, as one might gobble up all of the heart and another not get enough for example. ASF rats are African Soft Furred rats. Okay, so since the girls are chomping away at gizzards (remember this is considered a muscle meal on the Frankenprey Menu), which will improve their jaw strength, I'd like you to try a bit of bone-in rabbit as it seems like it's their apparently new favorite protein. You will need to smash the bone at first to help them get used to eating it and as they progress you won't need to anymore. Usually, we start out bone-in after they're eating chunks, and generally with something that has some softer bones like a quail or cornish game hen (CGH), or even a chicken wingtip. But the girls sound pretty eager with the rabbit, so it would be interesting to see if they'd give it a shot. Helpful links: Standardized Sizing for MeatsSmashing Up Bone for Beginners
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2017 21:12:28 GMT -5
Ok well i feel stupid but ive only been feeding what required in soupie recipes as ive not been informed on what exactly or amount for other stuff help :-( LindaM maybe i missed something you may of linked or told me? Amounts like oz work for me to go by and im slightly lost now....i have kidney i can feed them i have heart and liver ive been feeding them as per soupie recipe i just cut it up instead of blend it
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2017 21:14:36 GMT -5
Unsure how to ask exactly what i mean but like how do i know how much heart to cut up how much kidney how much protein :-( so with slivers i now need to start the weekly portioned out? Right now they are souly getting franket prey so
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2017 21:18:17 GMT -5
Can we set up a menu fir me ti go by? Sorry learning here myself and i know i dont have a mentor yet now im worried i may be hurting the girls
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Post by LindaM on Jun 5, 2017 23:16:43 GMT -5
Don't worry dear, we'll quickly sort it out. It's not wrong since you've still been working off the soupie ratio, but it will just be easier to switch it now and start getting ready to work off a weekly menu.
As for how much to feed them... Usually, we will portion the amount fed for those meals based on how much your ferret eats per meal. So for example, if my Loki eats 2oz on average every meal time, then I will give him around 2oz of hearts for his heart meal, and the organ meal will be 1oz liver + 1oz kidney, and when it comes to the meal of half-half, I will give 1oz heart, .5oz liver and .5oz kidney for that meal.
Since they are doing so well on their heart, organs and slivers, we can start trying to make up a basic menu for them. Granted, this is an interim example menu until we can do proper bone-in meals once they start eating those. Keep adding the bone meal to the slivers until they are eating bone.
Monday AM: Slivers Monday PM: Hearts
Tuesday AM: Slivers Tuesday PM: Slivers
Wednesday AM: Slivers Wednesday PM: Organs (1/2 liver + 1/2 other organ)
Thursday AM: Slivers Thursday PM: Slivers
Friday AM: Slivers Friday PM: Hearts + Organs - 1/2 heart, 1/4 liver, 1/4 other organ
Saturday AM: Slivers Saturday PM: Slivers
Sunday AM: Slivers Sunday PM: Slivers
Please let me know how the girls fare with tying a bit of rabbit with bone, or if you have some, a chicken wingtip. We also need to increase the size of slivers they are eating now, especially so we can start them on the bone-in pieces. How big are the slivers they are currently getting?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 16:15:39 GMT -5
LindaM thank god I went to bed freaking out last night. I have all of my things together to start portioning out meals as you do but im not entirely sure im ready for those with the girls so I picked up some smaller containers to do a week at a time for now. For labels I purchased white labels and a packet of color markets in a variety of colors to do color coding. If you wouldn't mind sharing exactly how you code so I can figure out how im going to do mine, id appreciate it. Going to bust up the bone as I seen in this video--> holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/18359/smashing-bone-beginner-ferrets but with the rabbit and see how the girls do. Will most definitely let you know how it goes. Would it be better to try chicken wing tip? I don't have any on hand but I can pick some up fresh tomorrow at the market after work, I know they have turkey wing tips also. Including photo of what the girls have been eating these past couple days since no soupie.
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Post by LindaM on Jun 6, 2017 17:52:15 GMT -5
Do you have a Dollar Tree near you hon? I tend to shop lots of little essentials for my fuzzies' food storage there (to the point my ferrets know exactly how the containers look and will steal them out of the shopping bags if I buy new/extra ones). Specifically, they've had little 10-12 packs of 2.3oz containers, which I fill with 2oz of food, usually my muscle, organs, and heart meals. The bone-in meals are easier to put in bigger containers or zip-lock baggies, which I then throw it all into a bigger Sterilite container to keep neat and organized. Even though I have 4 ferrets now, I still prefer to portion into easy to use sizes like 2oz, 4oz and 6oz (those first two sizes being commonly used when I still just had Loki and Athena). I'm super OCD, so I'm a bit of freak that way, lol. So just bear with me, if my process seems insane, but we've found it works so seamlessly that even a stranger can easily feed my furkids. So other than those small containers that make portions super easy for me (granted they take a little space, but I felt the ziplocks for everything made things messier in my freezer), as does using some smaller ziplocks placed into bigger ziplocks or another container. That Sterilite container below is a 15qt size and holds 100 of the little 2.3oz containers perfectly. I also use colored labels, which either fit or don't in my printer, so often I just scribble with a pen on them. I label using a specific color per protein type (eg. pink for pork, yellow for chicken, etc.), and I write the protein on there (eg. Pork, Chicken, Duck, etc.), and the meal type (eg. hearts, organs, muscle, bone-in), and the consistency (eg. soup, puree, slivers, chunks). I also keep a detailed weekly menu for the ferrets up on my fridge, I plan to do a nice board for it sometime soon. I'd go ahead and pick up some chicken wings, at first they may only nibble the wingtips, but once they're used to it and have built up the jaw strength they can eat the entire wing. The same can't quite be said for turkey wings, the wingtips are usually what they'd eat as the other bone in it is pretty dense. I'm hoping since they seem to enjoy the rabbit so much, that they might just be eager enough to try some bone for us.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 21:04:30 GMT -5
LindaM earlier when i started my transition you shared you storing way and i have the little containers and the big one for them to go in :-)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 21:08:44 GMT -5
Im on my phone so cant do a photo though i took one for you of tonight's dinner....i took a rabbit front leg and busted up the bone like in the video, cut it into small like chunks so easy for the girls seeing they still do slivers, in the morning ill check to see what was eaten and what was not as well as post the picture asap
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 21:12:04 GMT -5
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