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Post by LindaM on Jun 18, 2017 0:16:17 GMT -5
Let me know how the girls do with the duck this time and whether you end up trying the frog legs and how the girls respond to it. Some ferrets love them to the point of addiction, others treat it like it's the plague.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2017 18:53:48 GMT -5
06/18/17 Sunday Spazz 1. Ferret's name: Spazz 2. Ferret's weight: 1 lbs. 13oz 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. 1-2oz 4. Stools on various proteins. Ranging in multiple colors, little watery some days others solid. 5. Activity levels: Normal, playful, active 6. Weekly menu: Slivers of: Chicken, Pork, Rabbit, Chicken Liver, Beef kidney, Chicken heart, chicken feet Mimi 1. Ferret's name: Mimi 2. Ferret's weight: 1lbs. 8oz 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. 1-2oz 4. Stools on various proteins. Ranging in multiple colors, little watery some days others solid. 5. Activity levels: Normal, playful, active 6. Weekly menu: Slivers of: Chicken, Pork, Rabbit, Chicken Liver, Beef kidney, Chicken heart, chicken feet Side note: Sorry if gross but I included photos of both girls poops so you can see, their poops have been pretty consistent all week aside from organ day when they were dark and a little runny but their chicken feet treat was this day as well so by next day was fine. Both girls are doing well with bone in, still no luck with the duck and they seem to be slightly bratty with the chicken necks, sad I have to wait till next pay check to order quail (I hope this is ok), they still love their pork and going to try the frog legs on the duck days this week see how they do. As for meat like beef, is this an ok protein for the girls to have? Was thinking about picking some up but wanted to know is there a certain cut or something I should get or what not. LindaM
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Post by LindaM on Jun 18, 2017 20:38:10 GMT -5
The girls can totally have beef as a protein. The biggest thing to note with beef is that unlike most other proteins, it does have a rather strong taste and smell, which makes some ferrets a bit difficult to introduce it to. Beef, while eaten by our ferrets, is eaten reluctantly and with much dislike even now. It is by far their most hated protein out of all the ones I offer. That said, your girls have been amazing about accepting new proteins, other than their fussiness toward duck, so give it a shot and let's see how they take it. I tend to buy whichever part has a good deal or is on special, but I try to look for a somewhat fattier cut of meat versus a lean one, as ferrets get their energy from the fat. Pretty much the same way that using chicken thighs is better than using chicken breasts, it's a darker, fattier meat, even on a lean-type of protein. I see the girls are both down a bit in weight this week from last week, but their meal average is still the same. It's normal for there to be some weight fluctuating from week to week, but have you been having any troubles with them eating certain meals, or have they still continued eating pretty good on all their meals? I sometimes notice Athena will do a "lean" day, where she eats somewhat less on both meals than she normally does on average, and then the next day, starting with her morning meal, she'll stuff her little face again, the crazy mite. No need to ever apologize for poop pictures on here. With ferrets, poop is life. It's what we check to make sure stuff is still functioning as they should in there or one of the first ways we can spot a problem that could be life-threatening, eg. blockage-possibility when seeing pencil thin poops, internal bleeding from bloody stools when no heart or organ meals had been given in that time-frame, constipation from too much bone or something else, diarrhea from a bacterial problem or too little bone, etc. etc. Poops can vary in color a bit depending on which meal was eaten, lighter meats can often give a lighter colored poop, and darker meats can give darker colored poops, a great example of this is heart and organ poops which are so rich in blood that the poops end up looking almost like tar. Egg poopies sometimes come out basically looking the way they did going in, so you'll have some yellow poopies, and they can even be somewhat soupish depending on the amount of egg eaten. If you spot any turkey in the store, you can try some of that as well. Turkey also has bone-in options, like wingtips and necks (these are tough and should get smashed). Another way you can introduce the duck, is to take some of the muscle meat and cut it up with a scissor into very tiny pieces and mix that in with your normal pieces of another meat, usually that will make the girls eat some by accident and can help get them used to the taste. How big are the pieces of meat the girls are eating right now? Could you show a picture of them up against something like a finger or teaspoon? Have you been slowly increasing the size of the pieces the girls have been eating? How about the bone, do they still require you to smash things up thoroughly or not so much anymore?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 19:21:04 GMT -5
LindaM Yes both down a bit in weight from last week, we have only had issues with the chicken neck they seem more interested in stashing it. The duck seemed better this week, specially the duck wings, spazz is loving the bone in meals. From what I can see their poops are average to me, ranging a little from day to day but nothing alarming. Will definitely pick up some turkey, the shop I go to has turkey wings, necks and more if I remember correctly. Do I use like a meat cleaver or a like meat tenderizer hammer to bash up the turkey neck? WEll with the pork pieces they are chunk sizes id say the size of a teaspoon(ill double check), the chicken wings im cutting in half (still busting up the bone but working on less and less as spazz and mimi are enjoying chewing the bones)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 19:24:57 GMT -5
Late response went to vet earlier been sitting watching mimi, when I walked through the door this afternoon from work she was vomiting so I scooped her butt up and to the vet we went. The put her on meds saying they think its bacteria from her eating raw meats.....sighs we have no good exotic vets here and shes not getting kibble anymore and all the research ive done I read if kibble and raw mix they can get a build up of bacteria in their stomach from it and make them sick.....he didn't like her diet and suggest zupreme ...my normal vet is on vacation soo I had to go to this one as emergency, shes not no blockage and is pooping, drinking and eating just fine...still watching her till im 100% shes ok...I truthfully think she was just trying to eat to fast as in being lazy and trying to swallow before fully chewing.
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Post by LindaM on Jun 20, 2017 19:36:20 GMT -5
That's wonderful news about Spazz, especially considering so many meals in the week are bone-in, haha. I'm glad to hear the duck is also going better this week.
The chicken neck might be somewhat tougher than they're currently used to (especially if they're still used to you smashing their bones some), as they get more used to it, they should end up consuming more of it and not stash much. Just keep an eye on the amount of bone they consume versus stash, that way if they end up simply stashing instead of eating their meals, you'll know and can focus on it specifically. It's also not uncommon for them to seem to slow down a little with eating the more work meals become, eg. slurping down soup vs chewing meat, chewing meat vs crunching bones, lol. They can be little lazy sods when it comes to food sometimes.
I just use one of hubby's tool hammers so I don't hurt my KitchenAid meat tenderizer mallet, lol. Turkey necks can be a bit tough, so I'd try using a hammer myself versus the cleaver for bashing.
On which day this week would you like to do a little quiz? I'd like to see if there's anything important we might need to focus on or whether you have any subjects you are still unsure on for now.
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Post by LindaM on Jun 20, 2017 19:42:33 GMT -5
You will be hard paced to find a vet that believes in the raw diet. They only receive basic nutritional education, and it's the kibble companies who pay for it. And some who might believe in it, have also seen the effects of an unbalanced raw diet, which is very dangerous too. I've noticed on several visits that until you mention the diet, that ferret is PERFECT, 100% healthy... mention the diet and it's like the ferret has a week to live. Thank God the current vet I use understands a raw diet is the natural diet for a ferret. But it can be incredibly problematic sometimes, as plenty vets will just blame the raw and not bother trying to find the actual cause for the problem at hand.
Ferrets can indeed vomit if they have eaten too fast, but if it continues to occur, I might try to look for a different vet, and not lead the conversation with what their diet is. Did he test for bacteria before you mentioned their diet, or only suggested that as the cause afterwards?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 19:51:27 GMT -5
only suggested that as the cause afterwards...Fiancé and I are 100% sure she just ate to fast but I panicked and I only mentioned their diet when he asked me it didn't occur to me to not tell him but hes not my usual vet it was only due to my vet being on vacation so when I go see my vet I wont mention diet
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Post by LindaM on Jun 20, 2017 20:53:04 GMT -5
You can ask your vet what they think of the diet, as you know ferrets are obligate carnivores and most kibble these days are full of plant matter which they cannot digest and can lead to insulinoma. That way you can try to see what your usual vet's opinion is on it. Sometimes you get lucky with a vet who understands or are open to listening and learning new things. But many vets like to just blame everything on a raw diet without putting in the time or effort to see what's actually wrong with the ferret, it's quite sad and utterly frustrating.
I hope your wee girl is fine and just ate to quick, just continue to keep an eye on her to see if there's any changes in her activity levels, eating and drinking habits, or potty habits. There's been no signs of anything else being the matter? No grinding of teeth, pawing at mouth or squinty eyes? On the very rare chance.. did this happen very shortly after eating, or a little while later? And what was being eaten for that specific meal?
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Post by FireAngel on Jun 20, 2017 21:57:06 GMT -5
Hi there! Looks like you are doing a :goodjob: with Spazz and Mimi and have had some great advice from everyone! If you are having issues with bones being too large maybe this video will help you, smashing bones for beginners. You seem to be doing great with getting a good variety, waiting until you can afford quail is fine. No further issues today with Mimi vomitting?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 17:54:00 GMT -5
You can ask your vet what they think of the diet, as you know ferrets are obligate carnivores and most kibble these days are full of plant matter which they cannot digest and can lead to insulinoma. That way you can try to see what your usual vet's opinion is on it. Sometimes you get lucky with a vet who understands or are open to listening and learning new things. But many vets like to just blame everything on a raw diet without putting in the time or effort to see what's actually wrong with the ferret, it's quite sad and utterly frustrating. I hope your wee girl is fine and just ate to quick, just continue to keep an eye on her to see if there's any changes in her activity levels, eating and drinking habits, or potty habits. There's been no signs of anything else being the matter? No grinding of teeth, pawing at mouth or squinty eyes? On the very rare chance.. did this happen very shortly after eating, or a little while later? And what was being eaten for that specific meal? LindaM Mimi is her normal self today, when she threw up yesterday she tried to eat directly after throwing up. Pooping, eating, drinking, playing normally today. She was eating chicken wings when she got sick.
And a quiz any time will be fine
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 17:55:41 GMT -5
Hi there! Looks like you are doing a :goodjob: with Spazz and Mimi and have had some great advice from everyone! If you are having issues with bones being too large maybe this video will help you, smashing bones for beginners. You seem to be doing great with getting a good variety, waiting until you can afford quail is fine. No further issues today with Mimi vomitting? Yeah im familiar with the smashing bones for beginners I bookmarked a lot of links to pop back to if I forget something. So far we aren't doing to bad with the bones aside from them mainly stashing chicken necks.
Mimi is doing great today thank you for asking, im still watching her and so is fiancé when im at work thankfully hes on vacation from work
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 17:59:55 GMT -5
Their meal amounts seem to vary on what protein I feed, hearts and organs they will eat just about all 4oz between the two with a little left over, rabbit they will eat all 4oz so I give 5-6oz just in case, chicken wings they tend to eat 2-3oz but are eating the bones (im smashing them less and less, I think spazz loves the crunch), pork they will eat all 4oz for I give 5-6oz just in case, duck is still the least enjoyed protein but they are eating more of it than the first couple try's we did.
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Post by FireAngel on Jun 21, 2017 21:04:58 GMT -5
Sounds like they are just not eating as much of the things they have to work harder for (bones) but as long as poops are good this should not be an issue. They are still eating enough of it. Ferrets definitely tend to eat less of their less favorite things and will even hold out until the next meal sometimes unless you are more stubborn than they are and you hold out on giving them the next meal lol. I'm so glad Mimi is doing better today!
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Post by LindaM on Jun 21, 2017 23:28:20 GMT -5
It can be that they're still get more used to the duck, but it is clear that it may just end up as a "normally" enjoyed protein, unlike the rabbit which I think they might even try to eat you for, if you don't give it fast enough. It's common for them to have a favorite or two, but so long as they don't try and just avoid everything in place of that protein, it should be fine. That said, just like FireAngel mentioned, some ferrets have zero qualms about trying to wait you out by refusing a specific protein. In those cases, a little tough love can actually work wonders lol. I also believe FireAngel might be taking over your switch soon and she should be able to give you all the help you need when it comes to feeding Whole Prey, unlike myself. That is still your goal right, to incorporate some Whole Prey items in with your Frankenprey diet? So let's see if you can answer any of these without needing to look them up. 1. What is the weekly limit for raw eggs and should you feed only the whites, only the yolks, or the entire egg? 2. Name 3 different organ meats aside from Liver. 3. Name 3 different edible bone-in meats. 4. You have run out of hearts, what can you use as an emergency source of Taurine and can these be a permanent solution or only temporary? 5. What can you use as a bone replacer and how much of it should you use? Is this a permanent solution or only temporary? 6. Why are cooked bones dangerous but raw bones safe?
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