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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 8:35:11 GMT -5
9:27am Est time Sunday Started with two oz. of soupie, added in an egg yolk as its their morning to have their egg (I keep track on a calendar next to their cage. Left over 1.0oz Spazz same as day before, dabbed and touched her lips and her head was in the bowl. Mimi better than yesterday, a few Grab'n'Dab and she finally stopped running away and would lick the spoon clean (1/8 tps) she ate about 4 whole spoons Id say. This is possible because it had egg yolk in it, she loves her eggs. Kibble is removed and I'm about to head out and do some shopping/sourcing for meats. Fiancé will be home so when the time is enough to put their kibble back I will be calling him to do so. Wish me luck shopping
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Post by LindaM on Apr 23, 2017 13:49:49 GMT -5
That sounds great! Good job, all three of you. Raw Egg is a wonderful incentive to make stubborn ferrets try new foods, as long as it's kept to the weekly limit of course. As is a drizzle of Salmon Oil, so long as it's kept to the 1tsp per ferret, per week limit. And so long as incentives aren't used full-time, since it can make some little fuzzies get very spoiled and stubborn all over in a new way, like not wanting to eat unless the incentive is present. Keep an eye on their poops as usual, but don't be too freaked out if they have some really funky stools for a few weeks. These are detox stools, and they tend to be all over the place in colors and consistencies for a while. As they become used to the new diet later on, their poops are going to decrease in size, and they will be a softer/wetter texture compared to kibble poopies. Your girlies will also start peeing much bigger puddles, this is because their new diet will be giving them hydration that kibble could never provide. So, something to keep in mind, all raw foods have a time-line for how long they can be left out (this might vary a bit if it's very hot/humid): Soups: 6-8 hours Grinds: 8-12 hours Chunks: 10-24 hours (depending on size eg. the bigger the chunks are, the longer they'll last) Bone-in Meats: 12-24 hours (again, depending on size) Whole Prey: up to 48 hours As for how long I thaw when using those little containers, I can usually just pull one out of the freezer and leave it on the counter for an hour (I've forgotten to put some in the fridge more than I can count), sometimes I will drop them into another container filled with lukewarm water for a while too, but never use hot, it may cook the raw around the edges. If I remember to take some containers out, I just pop them as is into my fridge overnight for the next day (if I leave them to the back of my fridge though, they may remain frozen). Otherwise, like mentioned above, somewhere around an hour on the counter should have it thawed enough to serve.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 16:02:44 GMT -5
LindaM Yes they only get egg yolk twice a week, we use salmon oil to trim nails or when we were working on litter box training (Spazz amazing, Mimi well she used to be in a small cage with no litter box soo shes still learning) As for trying a drizzle of salmon oil on the soupie Mimi still wouldn’t have it the first night we tried (forgot to mention that). Awesome I was going to ask about leaving the meats out, as I’ll be waking around 4am, and I leave for work around 5am. I’m in Florida it always tends to be super-hot and super humid though I keep my house around 77 degree so approx how much should I shorten the times on the raw foods being out? (like a guestimate id say, also their cage is not in direct sunlight or head and there is a ceiling fan circulating air in the room)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 16:27:06 GMT -5
Update from today sourcing meats:
Not as much as id hoped for but near me I have 100% of:
Winn Dixie: has chicken hearts, liver, gizzards, breast (without sodium solution), thigh (without sodium solution)at all times.
Publix: Beef kidney, beef heart, chicken hearts, gizzards, breast (without sodium solution), thigh (without sodium solution)
Bravo market: The butcher told me to come by on Monday(tomorrow 04/24/17) and he will give me a list of the meats he can get/order for me and pricing.
Asian market: Whole frozen duck and chickens
(Small list but after work tomorrow I plan on doing some calling around, a lot of places were closed today)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 16:34:32 GMT -5
5:27pm est time Sunday Took out the remaining 1.0oz that was left over from this morning. Thawing a lot more soupie for tomorrow miscalculated and should of had more ready to try but both girls decided to stop licking the bowl and spoon and wipe their whiskers and run off. There was only a little left not enough to weigh. Spazz same, dabbed and touched her lips and her head was in the bowl. Spazz has not needed the spoon as all and she's usually my trouble eater. Mimi still better than yesterday, a couple Grab'n'Dab and she would lick the spoon clean (1/8 tsp) she ate about 18 whole spoons Id say so if I'm mathing correctly that's 2tsp and one 1/4 tsp. I'm not the best at math so if its incorrect my apologies.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 18:40:49 GMT -5
7:30pm 2oz of soupie.
Spazz sniffed bowl and dug right in on her own. Ate 1oz.
Mimi one grab-n-dab and then she settled in mommies lap and ate 1oz from the spoon. 2oz - 1oz each girl, tomorrow with start with 3oz maybe 4...see if they eat more or stop at 1oz each. (starting separate bowls to keep exacts on each girls consumption)
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Post by LindaM on Apr 23, 2017 18:49:05 GMT -5
As for leaving the meats out, I keep my home at 72F year-round, and I can stick to those listed time ranges (when it comes to organ and heart meals, I keep it MUCH shorter, those things will SMELL). I'm not actually sure by how much to shorten since I do not generally need to, so I'd say try it close to that time range and give the meat a sniff... If it smells bad, be rid of it and lessen the time. The good thing is that a ferret will not eat meat that has gone really bad (maybe a little off by our standard, but they may still feel it's fine), their little tummies are better built to deal with that kind of bacteria than we are. And once you get to the actual bits of meat, like muscle meats, do not be surprised if your girls try to make their own jerky from it by letting the meats air-dry (my girlie ferret happily makes some for herself and the three boys).
It sounds like the girls are definitely trying. I'd like you to try and see if you can coax Mimi into eating from the bowl by herself now. Sit on the floor with her in your lap (or with her standing on the floor if she won't run off) and the bowl in front of you, and as she's eating from the spoon, start lowering the spoon down into the bowl very slowly. This may take a few tries, the idea is to get her while she's happily eating from the spoon, to then start eating around it directly from the bowl when the spoon runs out of food.
If you can, keep 1 extra cube of soup thawed in the fridge and just replace it with a frozen one whenever you end up using one, that way you have a spare ready in case they suddenly have a good day where they eat a lot.
If you have the extra freezer space to spare and some money to burn, you might want to consider ordering off of one of the online vendors. Hare Today or My Pet Carnivore tend to have a good raw selection available. They tend to have a limitation on minimum order before shipping, like needing to order 10lbs at least.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 21:17:37 GMT -5
LindaM, Will definitely try to get her to eat from the bowl tomorrow. Spazz seems super happy to eat it on her own including licking the bottom of the bowl till there's not a drop (she does this with her egg yolks). I have an entire deep freezer I bought specific for my girls food only so I can put meats in the freezer and not worry about running out of space or meats. I get paid biweekly so I wont be able to order until two Fridays from now but I will look into the pricing thank you for the info.
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Post by LindaM on Apr 23, 2017 22:18:17 GMT -5
When you see any of them clean their bowl out entirely, give them some more. It's good practice to have your bowls have at least a tiny bite left at the next meal time. When bowls are cleaned out, it could be that someone did not get their entire fill of food.
Most meat tends to be perfectly fine in a deep freeze for the span of a year at least. So ordering in bulk is always nice when possible. When ordering from online raw vendors, you'll notice they'll tell you the same, that the more you order, the cheaper it ends up, especially when it comes to shipping and the like as they use set sizes of boxes.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 10:01:18 GMT -5
Question, how do I go about what to order seeing I've not to yet received a mentor. I'd like to order and have everything on hand and ready for progress forward when the time comes so any info on a general list or certain types and so on. I'd like to have a good starting amount in my freezer if that makes sense.
Added note I did purchase human grade bone meal powder yesterday when I was out.
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Post by LindaM on Apr 24, 2017 12:10:19 GMT -5
Not sure if I've linked this collection of links to you yet or not, but it contains some very helpful information on raw: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/17480/intro-raw-newbies-readThird link on that (linking it here separately for easy access too) will give you an idea of which meats to shop for: docs.google.com/document/d/1ysfT1bIvXixXYv6QFjW_EZZqHymtRXRTc3E_wAxLbxU/Now, as for ordering off somewhere like Hare Today, they have some decent grinds (not all are balanced though) that can help you get started on new proteins later on. They also offer just muscle meats (boneless) and bone-in. Now the normal Frankenprey menu tends its meals as follows: 7-9 Bone-In, 1.5 Organ, 1.5 Heart, and 2-4 Muscle. So as you can see, there really isn't a lot of muscle only meals, so not worth buying a truckload of boneless meats (boneless can also be helpful when introducing a new protein though), bone-in on the other hands, you can get a good variety and a decent amount of it. What do you wish to be your end goal again? Frankenprey, Whole Prey or a bit of both?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 18:21:12 GMT -5
Day 3 04/24/17 Monday 4:30am est time: Girls got kibble this morning. Side note I noticed the kibble was untouched over night (they both dig all their kibble from their bowl before eating and it was all fully intact). 3:00pm est time: checked on girls poo is normal color if a little slimy looking. Kibble all dug out of bowl. Took away kibble. 4:00pm est time: Raw soupie thawed and ready, portioned out 2oz (little over on each) in separate bowls for the girls each. SpazzStarted with 2.6oz of raw soupie, she hesitated a little so I dabbed it on her lips and she went right ahead and settled down to eat on her own. 1.2oz remaining when she stopped and went off to play, wouldn't lick anymore. MimiStarted with 2.3oz of raw soupie, she would sniff but nothing else till I did one grab n dab and then she was willing to lick the spoon. Followed what LindaM suggested on sitting down with her in my lap (she ran off if I let her stand on the floor) with the bowl sitting on my knee, she licks from the spoon very easily now and I tried several times lowering the spoon down to the bowl until she licked the spoon clean and she finally started licking from the bowl. When I pulled the spoon away she continued eating and I was able to lower her to the floor next to spazz and she continued to eat. (Happily had to take a photo which is included below)After about 2-3 minutes she started licking and rocking her head and looking to clean her face. I offered her a little more and she refused and ran off to jump in her ball pit. 1.6oz remaining when she completely stopped. Side note: I think their dishes/bowls may be a little to narrow or closed for their whiskers im going to look at different ones to see if maybe this helps Mimi. Remaining leftovers stored in fridge and extra thawed for later, in a couple hours will refresh both bowls and try more. Spazz:Mimi:Both girls eating together:
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 18:36:40 GMT -5
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Post by LindaM on Apr 24, 2017 18:46:29 GMT -5
Excellent! Sounds like both girls are making progress. So amounts eaten were 1.4oz (Spazz) and 0.7oz (Mimi), that's not bad considering how new to this they are, Spazz is definitely in the lead though. Let's see how they improve over the next few days, with any luck both girls with start eating from their bowls without you needing to prompt with a dab or spoon, and once we get to that stage we can start removing the kibble entirely. As for the bowls.. those don't appear bad really, in my opinion, maybe a touch deeper and sharper edged than my own. A lot of ferrets prefer shallow dishes such as plates and the like. Personally, I use some stainless steel shallow dishes from a local restaurant supply (much better than plastic, and they go right into the dishwasher to wash and sanitize). These are what I use for mine, I have a few varying sizes: Steel Ferret DishesAres Eating Pork SliversLoki & Athena Eating FDR
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2017 8:48:09 GMT -5
Day 4 9:00am est Tuesday Portioned out 3 oz each for both girls. Spazz hesitated a little bit this time but after licking the side of the bowl she was fine and started eating. 3oz start, 1.7oz remaining, ate 1.3oz yay Spazz. Mimi no spoon today ate all wanted to see if she would follow yesterday and eat on her own. I did a dab on her lips with my finger and then she started to eat. 3oz start, 2.2oz remain, ate 0.8oz Also I noticed in your photo LindaM on Loki & Athena eating FDR...is that a quail egg? You give them the entire egg shell and all? I seen these at the Asian Market and debating buying some but I just bought them some eggs soo I decided to wait. Meat Market update:Found a butcher on other side of town whos willing to order whatever I need. He's also calling and checking prices to give me a list so I have an idea of what I have access to and prices. Also another meat market about 10min from my house called me back, they are also getting quotes on prices and a list of what all they could get that id need.
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