|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 14:02:14 GMT -5
Yes I was thinking about that. I have noticed my two older ones don't eat as much as my youngest. I leave the dry food I have out all the time. But as they get older and I switch their diet I'll do exactly that. I've been reading on it. We are moving soon. It's been 5 years here so we are moving back, well me my fiancé is a Florida boy, back to New York so we will have a huge apartment still but more freezer room. So I'm thinking when we move I'll do the diet change and for now I'll start prepping and getting things in order. I'll need a journal and such. I have a scale. We do Crossfit so my fiancé measures everything he intakes lol I'm gonna try to order some different hard food for now that is better. It's seems that the marshall ferret food isn't agreeing with Appa anymore so he's been eating my high end cat food. So I'm gonna see about mixing hard food like I said for now just so they are at least eating better food. We move at the end of June so by the beginning of Aug when we move into our new place I'll start the new raw diet is my plan.
|
|
|
Post by LindaM on Apr 13, 2017 14:39:09 GMT -5
Excellent, sounds like you're already on the right path. And you'll soon have enough post requirements to sign up for a mentor, there's a bit of a wait right now, but you can go ahead and sign up and just state that you wanna start your switch after you guys have finished moving, but that way you'll at least be in line already. For kibble right now, you can transition them off of the Marshall's and onto something better like Orijen's cat kibbles. See if they'll take to it right away, sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. If they do not, try and switch over the course of say 10 days, but starting off with the Marshall kibble or kibble they're used to and add 1/10th of the new kibble, next day so it's 2/10ths new, then 3/10ths new.. and so on, until it's only the new kibble. Also, something to keep in mind on kibbles.. check the ingredient list, try to avoid kibbles that have several indigestible ingredients in the first 6 ingredients and the closer to the first they are, the higher their possible content, ie. Chicken, Turkey, Potatoes, Tapioca Starch, Chicken Liver, Turkey Hearts. Notice that your 3rd and 4th ingredients are indigestibles? So unless the package states the meat content (for example NV Instinct does), you can assume anywhere from 1/4th upwards easily to 1/3rd of that whole bag of food, is indigestible content. Another thing many people will avoid in kibbles is Peas, or Pea Protein, as well as Sweet Potatoes, these have been said to have risk of leading of bladder and kidney stones. Refer to this for more info: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/20966/kidney-bladder-stones-related-dietThat said, Orijen does include Peas in their kibble, BUT check your ingredient list, they tend to be easily the 15-18th ingredients on there, meaning the actual content in the bag is so small it's pretty much negligible. Another thing you could do, if money isn't a big concern (since this can get a little bit pricey the more ferrets you have), is to try and get them onto rehydrated Freeze-Dried Raw or Commercial Raw Grinds, that are balanced entirely, so you just pop some into their bowl and that's it, no need to really worry over balancing a menu until you're ready to switch to Frankenprey or Whole Prey, or do a mixed menu. I can recommend using Stella & Chewys (I do the dog products and just add extra pureed hearts in with it because the taurine is too low for ferrets, but the cat products have a synthetic Vitamin K these days so I avoid it), Rad Cat Raw Grinds, Darwin’s Pets Natural Selection Raw Cat Food, NV Instinct Feline Raw, and Primal Raw Cat FDR is another one I've heard some people use.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 15:36:08 GMT -5
Okay great ill start searching and see what I can get ordered to try out between the new kibble and the dried/raw grinds. So basically stay away from pea anything and sweet potatoes. Can you re explain the ingredients in the bag thing. I don't understand what you guys are trying to say and why it matters what ingredients on the bag in order: "example, peas is the 8th ingredient"? So i know how to read the bag and what to look for of course. I have that chart from before too. I was gonna try out the Orijen cat and kitten one for now. I have the vitamins too, its a liquid. All my ferrets seem to love it so if they don't take to food i tend to put a little of that on the kibble or whatever and they usually take right to it. I guess I can try salmon oil or something you said before too?!
|
|
|
Post by LindaM on Apr 13, 2017 15:56:09 GMT -5
So, here in the States, and most other countries too, ingredients on an ingredient list MUST be listed in order of amounts. So if the biggest amount of something is water, and second is flour, and third is sugar.. it must be listed as Water, Flour, Sugar. From highest included amount, to lowest included amounts.
That bottle of Ferretone.. into the garbage, fast as you can dear. The following products should be avoided, Ferretone, Ferrelax, Ferrevite, Marshall Ferret Kibble, Marshall Ferret Shampoo, Marshall Bandit Treats, Ferret RX, etc. These products are loaded with sugars, some have carcinogenic ingredients, some have Essential Oils (Toxic), and too many fillers and indigestibles. Basically, it's gotten so bad that a general rule of thumb is that if it has a picture of a ferret on and is sold commercially for ferrets, chances are it's going to be bad for the ferret.
Ferretone has known carcinogens in it, and with long-term use could lead to cancer, personally, just not worth the risk in my mind.
Salmon oil is a fish oil (natural animal oil), so it's great for their coats, and much healthier for them than vegetable oils like olive oil (this does have some uses though, like helping clean ears), coconut oil, etc. There are other animal oils you can use, I think Marine Fish, Krill, Seal, and Emu should be fine, though I mostly stick to Salmon myself. Be wary of Cod Liver Oil, it's very high in Vitamin A, so best to avoid that one so you do not end up with a Vitamin A toxicity. Combined amount of oils should be kept to 1 tsp per ferret, per week, and try to spread it out through the week instead of all in one go.
You can check a local pet boutique/holistic pet store, or even a regular pet store at times for some salmon oil. You can even check online on Amazon. I've used Grizzly and Alaska Naturals brands myself.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 16:05:07 GMT -5
omg i knew it. wow.
alrighty! yes anything i can find on amazon is great though I will look else where. I have amazon prime and personally love it. Il add that to my cart.
Thankfully i haven't been using the vitamin till just lately but I will get rid of it of course. Ill do the salmon oil. we eat salmon a lot and have tried to feed it to the ferrets. maybe raw would be best to try next time?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 17:05:03 GMT -5
"add extra pureed hearts" as in like chicken hearts? or something of that sort.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 17:10:15 GMT -5
i got this added so far on what i need. if theres anything else?... just got small portions for now to make sure they like it and to transition.
|
|
|
Post by LindaM on Apr 13, 2017 19:10:46 GMT -5
That should be a good start, we can see how they take to it. So for the Stella & Chewys, since you need to rehydrate it, it's kinda like a thick soupy when you crumble it up and add some water to it. I add some pureed hearts to that and mix it in (yep, chicken works). And if they do decide to take to the FDR, you will need to still have at least 3 different proteins in their menu as not all proteins have the same nutritional values, for example rabbit is a very lean meat, and duck is a much fattier meat. This is kinda what it'll look like rehydrated (though I used "Duck, Duck Goose" that night): You can also try and see if you can get a hold of some of the Rad Cat or Darwin's grinds, these will need to be kept in the freezer and just thaw a little before feeding, but tend to be completely balanced, so no need to have to worry about adding extra hearts or anything. NV Instinct has Chicken and Rabbit in the feline formulas, and ferrets seem to like eating them, though I find them to be kinda smelly compared to other brands of commercial grinds. So, they can have raw fish in their diet, we try and keep it to the smaller fish, as the bigger fish tend to have higher levels of mercury, that said, salmon tends to be a favorite for some. Something to keep in mind though, is that no more than one fish meal a week should be given. If I plan on giving some fishy treats in the week, I skip the fish meal, and vice versa.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 19:35:19 GMT -5
FDR as in?
okay so stella chewys + hearts + 3 other different protein meats?
what are the grinds for? an added meal?
I'm assuming what they are eating in the photo is the rehydrated chewys? and whats in the middle dish? I'm confused due to so many things going on at once.
so when i start the dry food. I'm just gonna do the dry food added in 1 tenth every day for ten days to transition from the marshal food to the new food. then add the salmon oil on top of that dry food (if needed), 1 tsp per ferret per week, correct? then with the chewys ill crumble it up, add water, add heart to make a soupy like paste for them to also eat. ?? is this correct. this is what ill do till i move and get settled and start transition to the raw diet.
after this transition the new hard food gets settled ill work on the "raw soup" as my start to the transition to the raw diet.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 19:38:31 GMT -5
im not finding those on amazon but i see others. if they don't work ill look else where for the ones you mentioned.
I can't believe I didn't know this about the labels. My fiancé knew but some how I did not or wasn't realizing it 🤷🏼♀️
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 19:40:07 GMT -5
stella has one too. ingredients:Salmon (Ground With Bone), Chicken (Ground With Bone), Chicken Liver, Chicken Gizzard, Pumpkin Seed, Potassium Chloride, Sodium Phosphate Monobasic, Choline Chloride, Dried Pediococcus Acidilactici Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium Longum Fermentation Product, Taurine, Tocopherols (Preservative), Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Copper Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Riboflavin, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Manganese Proteinate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Menadione Sodium Bisulfate Complex (Source Of Vitamin K), Calcium Iodate, Vitamin B12 Supplement
|
|
|
Post by LindaM on Apr 13, 2017 22:03:11 GMT -5
I'm sorry dear, let's take it slower and I'll try to explain each part by themselves. Okay, so the purple bags of Stella & Chewys are the cat products, personally, I stopped using these because they contain a synthetic vitamin K these days that could lead to issues in the long haul, note in that ingredient list the "Menadione Sodium Bisulfate Complex (Source Of Vitamin K)". That's why I started doing just the Stella & Chewys dog products with added hearts, since only the cat products are balanced when it comes to the correct level of taurine (that's what the hearts are for). Refer to this for some more info on the synthetic Vit K: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/21862/stella-chewy-contains-controversial-substanceTerms: FDR = Freeze-Dried Raw Grinds = Ground up whole prey or animal parts Protein = Type of Meat, ie. Rabbit, Duck, Chicken, Pork, etc.. Overall, your ferret always needs a minimum of 3 proteins in their diet, this is to make up for the differences in nutrition varying from meat to meat. In reality, there are 4 kinds of raw you can feed. Frankenprey, Whole Prey, FDR, and Commercial Raw Grinds. Now Commercial Raw Grinds, are kinda what they say... whole prey or parts of an animal all ground together. Commercially, these will be available as frozen raw in either a tube package (think ground turkey), a bowl of mush, little nuggets, or patties. Yes, to do the kibble switch, do it at 1/10th until fully changed after 10 days. You can see if they'll eat it right from the start, if they do then great, if not then you go the slow way of 10 days. When adding anything wet like the oil to kibble, just add a very small drizzle right on the top, so it doesn't soak all the kibble and attract bacteria. I'd say see how they do with the Stella & Chewys, if they really take to that, you can stop doing kibble and simply give them FDR until you can start your actual switch to raw. While you try them with the FDR and kibble, take away the kibble bowls at least 2 hours before you give some FDR, and give back 2 hours after. This is to ensure they do not get a bacterial overgrowth from eating raw and kibble soon after one another, as they digest at different speeds. I believe you can order those others off their respective websites, or at least they can show where near you: Darwins: www.darwinspet.com/product/raw-cat-food/Rad Cat: www.radfood.comOh and that center bowl has a quail egg in, sometimes I mix it up for my ferrets by giving quail eggs instead of chicken, and I let them crack the quail shells themselves.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2017 10:57:31 GMT -5
okay i got it. So once i get the FRD ill see if they take to that and Im making the raw soup today too.
for the soup i asked of that forum, how much do i give the ferrets each once i make the soup and then how much do i give each ferret after i disperse the soup into the ice trays and freeze them? like one cube a ferret?!
|
|
|
Post by LindaM on Apr 17, 2017 12:51:07 GMT -5
Okay, so ferret appetites can really vary, again, there are factors to take into account into each individual case. So most ferrets will eat much more on the start of a raw switch, so don't be surprised that if they take to the soup and basically just inhale it.
Age, Gender, and Season can also play a big role on how much they eat, as well as health or medical problems at times.
A good way to measure is to check your bowl after they eat, there should always be just a little bit remaining. If the bowl is licked entirely clean, it can mean that someone didn't quite get their fill of food. For a while I'd try to give them each their own separate bowl, so you can see how much each is eating for about the span of a week to a few weeks, it'll help you get an average amount for each ferret, but don't be surprised if the amounts they eat bounce all over the chart for a while.
Since they're new to it, I'd try each out on an ice-cube and see how they do (I actually never used the ice-cube tray method, instead I always portioned and weighed 2oz amounts into little 2.3oz rectangular containers from the Dollar Tree). If they lick their bowls clean, add in a little more, if there's a lot remaining try a little less the next time and check again. Raw soups can stay out for 6-8 hours usually, if it's very hot and humid though, then not entirely as long.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2017 21:27:12 GMT -5
Okay great I'll make sure to do that.
They really didn't take to it. I even tried the scruff method and everything. And I did it a couple times. I tried it as soon as I made it then waited a few hours and tried again. My one ferret he's pretty easy going, he's the only one really just licking it up on his own. The others arnt really interested. Anything to add in or something to get them to eat it?
|
|