marid
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Post by marid on Apr 5, 2017 10:21:36 GMT -5
It's a lot of work and also a lot of heartache, but I would urge you to think long and hard about why you would be going into breeding and whether you can afford it, whether you could potentially house and keep every single you have bred over the years if they should be returned and whether you can try and be ruled partly by your head to make good breeding choices for the future of ferrets. Vickiann, Thank you for your wonderful insight. I will take everything you have said to heart. The reason I would want to breed is to produce healthy, strong ferrets in Quebec. When my partner and I started looking for our third we wanted to find a good breeder. Unfortunately places around where I live only have the Marshall's or Manitoba farm ferrets. My vet and I spoke about how terrible this was and how she constantly sees sick ferrets.... Thank you, and yes, I will think hard on it over the next 2 - 3 years before deciding anything.
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Post by Heather on Apr 5, 2017 11:30:29 GMT -5
Well said Vicki-Ann. I too, keep my retired babies...I coudn't give them up. I've spent too much time with them. Hold a jill after she's lost some of her litter and she's totally wrenched and trying to find them. No, I've shared too much with them. I owe them everything. Lady Morgaine proved to be sterile (or just bloody minded). She's going to be spending the rest of her life here. She's a royal pain because she takes up a whole cage herself and because she hates everyone (got to love those hybrids) and doesn't play well with others...even the hobs, she also plays out entirely by herself. She gets her playtime just like everyone else. In fact she's curled up under the futon in my studio right now. I love her to pieces. She's got to be one of the most bloody minded little bitchy thing I've ever had the pleasure to know. She's now too old to be a breeder, she will be my old spinster girl and live to be 15 I bet....actually, I hope. One of the issues too that breeding creates is the large need of space. In the UK, you keep them outdoors. Here the weather is too extreme. So they have to live in your house. So space is always at a premium, especially if you're going to care for them properly. It's a hard move to keep "pet" ferrets from smelling up your house....have a couple of young randy hobs, marking (the one thing that really annoys me about them lol) I can handle their stink (rather like it actually)but their incessant trails drive me crazy....especially when it's my foot {sigh}. The girls stink but not near as bad, but their urine will rival a cat in stench (it's disgusting) making the need to empty their litter boxes more often. Hob bedding is always disgusting. I can put clean bedding in while they're out to play and it needs to be cleaned that evening (naturally occurring oils, it gets on everything) One of the reasons the living room chairs are leather instead of cloth. ciao
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marid
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Post by marid on Apr 5, 2017 13:57:31 GMT -5
Hello! The plan would be to have a room just for them, maybe 10x10 with ceramic tiles or easy clean flooring and closed off space for them outside during summer months. They would usually get free roam--although id have to check about hobs and such... should they be let out free roam with the other sprites and gibs or alone? I've just finished calling the nearby vets and found a vet that is even more knowledgeable about ferrets than my current vet and would be willing to obtain the jill jab for me or learn how to do a vasectomy on a ferret. They understand my situation (thinking of breeding, wanting information, would only happen in 2-3 years) and told me that I could call them with as many questions as I liked. They quoted me half the price from spay and neuter than my vet did (however my vet does not do spay/neuters on ferrets often and quoted me the rabbit price. She does have experience with other ferret surgeries).
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Post by crazylady on Apr 5, 2017 14:39:08 GMT -5
Hi if you plan on keeping a breeding hob he needs to be separate from other ferrets ( same goes for a vas hob ) if a breeding hob is not kept separate but let loose with fixed jills or hobs he will throw them about and try to mate fixed or not he doesn't care and you could end up with some terrified ferrets and hefty vets bills the same goes for your vas hob if he lives with a group of girls you may find he wont do what nature intends him to do he doesn't look on his harem as a one night stand he can have them anytime lol the wives of my vas hobs have to be taken to my other vas hobs as there husbands wont entertain them lol heather and vicki anne are correct its expensive and can be heart breaking I too hang onto oldies brothers and sisters and grandfathers and grandmothers lol my father used to have a saying it went if you cant keep it dont breed it !take care bye for now Bev
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marid
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Post by marid on Apr 5, 2017 15:48:00 GMT -5
Hi if you plan on keeping a breeding hob he needs to be separate from other ferrets ( same goes for a vas hob ) if a breeding hob is not kept separate but let loose with fixed jills or hobs he will throw them about and try to mate fixed or not he doesn't care and you could end up with some terrified ferrets and hefty vets bills the same goes for your vas hob if he lives with a group of girls you may find he wont do what nature intends him to do he doesn't look on his harem as a one night stand he can have them anytime lol the wives of my vas hobs have to be taken to my other vas hobs as there husbands wont entertain them lol heather and vicki anne are correct its expensive and can be heart breaking I too hang onto oldies brothers and sisters and grandfathers and grandmothers lol my father used to have a saying it went if you cant keep it dont breed it !take care bye for now Bev Hey Crazylady! When do you retire your males? I assume you neuter them? Can they live with the sprites, gibs, and Jill's once neutered or do they retain some of their attitude ;p? I'm having a good time reading Fret Poppers and have also found a book on breeding ferrets. I'll start reading that one once I'm do this one. Additionally, would anyone know of an online course, or courses offered in the Montreal area on breeding and animal nutrition. I'm thinking of going to Vanier and doing the course on Animal Health Technology part time.
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Post by Heather on Apr 5, 2017 21:03:37 GMT -5
As neutering/spaying actually sets a ferret (especially an indoor ferret) up for adrenal (unless the DES is used as a preventative, annually), some of us don't bother. Hobs, good hobs usually mellow out as they age. I had no intention of either surgically or chemically castrating Tico or Enigma. Neither were horrible to live with and Enigma was already sharing space with a Marshals sprite along with his brother. You can use the DES to chemically castrate them. It has to be repeated annually if you castrate surgically as a prevenative, as you have to use it anyway, I'm leaning toward using it as a chemical castration. It has been used favourably for this in both the EU and Australia and the UK is starting to lean toward this method as well. Males usually have to have the DES renewed annually but the jills can often go years without having to renew. It does mean that you have to be very cautious to check your little ones but it's something you have to do anyway. ciao
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Post by crazylady on Apr 6, 2017 13:24:08 GMT -5
Hi I dont technically retire my males I simply dont let them have sex if I dont need that line then I simply dont use the hob all of mine apart from my vas hobs are whole they dont live in my house they live in there own ferret house lol most of my males have separate cages a couple of male siblings share a cage ( you still get whos turn is to be a jill this week games but as long as necks are not badly marked things go on ok ) A number of vets up in the north of England where I live are refusing to castrate or spay ferrets unless its an emergency they are stating they have read reports that this increases adrenal and other problems in ferrets ( well mine has anyway lol) he will still do vasectomy and use the jill jab a lot of males only become royal pains once the breeding season begins they can smell the females near by ( the jills normally come in because they smell the males earlier in the season ) and in the ferret world its every male for himself even if it does mean nipping the hand that feeds you lol and they turn into slimy greasy smelly ferrets almost over night lol hope this helps take care bye for now Bev
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marid
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Post by marid on Apr 6, 2017 23:57:41 GMT -5
Hey so I was reading this book called "Ferret and Ferreting: a practical guide" and the author suggests that the pregnant Jill have a two room contraption to deliver. Basically one box to can open and put food and litter and the other one is "sealed shut" for 6 weeks. And that the female should be given cow milk and fresh bread....... This sounds..... Weird....? Thoughts? Also not sure if it was in this book or another but also that the male should be brought to the female and not the inverse ("never bring the female into the males cage for breeding) and that one should breed albinos and sables separately.... What dyall think?
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Post by LindaM on Apr 7, 2017 0:02:50 GMT -5
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marid
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Post by marid on Apr 7, 2017 0:19:23 GMT -5
Ya. I was like.. there is no way 0.o what about the rest of the stuff? Closed off box for 6 weeks, no peeking at all. Placing hob in the Jill's cage and not vice versa ? And not breeding sables with albino?
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Post by Sherry on Apr 7, 2017 9:04:20 GMT -5
There are still many old books, and far too much old info out there. That was commonly used at one time, especially by rabbiters.
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Post by Heather on Apr 7, 2017 12:54:21 GMT -5
Make sure you double check the date on your references....some of the old time information is solid but oh, there is a lot of crap out there too lol 1. Basically one box to can open and put food and litter and the other one is "sealed shut" for 6 weeks Yes, and no....a nesting box is a good idea, locking them away for 6 weeks seems a bit over the top. My guys have a nursery, with several nesting areas set up. I do minimalist interference especially for the first week, handling the jill rather than her kits. Others, prefer to weigh and sex and handle the kits from the get go. Jills are temperamental, especially with kits on the ground. Some are ok with you handling, others develop an extra set of teeth. I thought my girl was going to be really good with it (she was going to have her kits on my knee) but I'd heard of jills become terribly distressed and confused when they're moved to the nursery, so I moved her to the nursery before the first kit was born. The first couple of days, she was really good with me handling her (not her kits) but about 48 hrs after having those kits my sweet little poley jill became a grizzly bear momma and I was only allowed to pick up the corner of the blanket and watch.....no touchy. A stressed jill will also, kill their litter, mutilate (hypergroom) her kits, or just walk away so being able to read your jill helps a lot. Just allowing mom to get down to her job and feed those gorgeous kits is the best idea. 2..the female should be given cow milk and fresh bread....... old school, do not do. Great way to cause die off, upset stomachs and possibly swimmers (rickets) 3... male should be brought to the female and not the inverse ("never bring the female into the males cage for breeding). I always bring the female to the male. I did the other way once....he beat the crap out of her, not sure of the reasoning behind it....but he was a very gentle, sweet hob. He'd been doing his job very well. I needed to repair his cage, so thought what the hey....yah, for whatever reason he became hugely stressed and beat up my little girl. Even my v-hob prefers to entertain in his own cage. 4....one should breed albinos and sables separately.... that one is fact and maybe if we'd listened to the old timers we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now. I breed poley and I breed albinos but I do not mix the two. It's what started this whole colour dilute mess in the first place. Remember you book on genetics and the algorithms. If you breed for colours and you breed for fancy markings...you're not breeding for health. ciao
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Post by crazylady on Apr 7, 2017 13:53:39 GMT -5
Boy that must be an old book lol though I do confess to giving my girls a little kitten replacer milk when feeding just a little every other day laced with bonemeal lol its tempting to look at kits but I try to pretend I dont have a clue kits what kits lol I even talk to my jills telling them I cant hear the racket from the nest box lol my nest box does have a door but some jills get inventive just incase lol ( I use meadow hay for bedding material for pregnant jills and its amazing how they can fashion a nest with a ceiling so no one can peek lol) so normally its a three week wait until you see heads trying to escape and hit the food bowl ( I give mine a meat mush at this age ) mum is placed on the floor to run around five mins while I do a head count and sex them lol always stroke mum well before even venturing near her kits this way her scent is on your hands ensuring she wont attack her kits I place them around the bowl rubbing a little on there mouths after a few licks there hooked and often walk through it mum is not impressed she has dirty kits to clean up but its funny she always comes back out to finish up the soup after dragging them all back to bed lol heather is correct always take the female to the male and yes always breed color to the same color all of the variants out there are the result of poley x albino mating to some degree and with it bring some big problems depending on how mixed up they are a lot of people dont realize a wild poley is not always black it can be brown with a dark brown nose now cross that with an albino hey presto sandy/champagne begins along with a few albino and brown poleys in the litter a complete split !its often better not to experiment take care bye for now Bev
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marid
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Post by marid on Apr 7, 2017 15:55:47 GMT -5
Hmmm that is quite interesting.
I am wondering how they got the albino strain in the first place (poleys are dark). I've read it's had something to do with camouflage in plains vs forests. I've also read that albinos are more sensitive to the light, and are more prone to deafness. Have you experienced this?
Then the problem also arises because dark ferrets can have the albino gene and pass it on.... Hmm...
Can someone maybe tell me more about the problems with breeding albino/sable? Genetically, and health wise. I'm not yet half way through the coat colour book but maybe it's written there too?
I've also read elsewhere that albinism is a genetic defect due to selective breeding. Easier to see them when you're working with then during a hunt. So, I really want to understand why they shouldn't be bred with sables (--i actually am sincere and want to know and apologize if I sound at all offensive to anyone)
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Post by lorelei0922 on Apr 7, 2017 17:11:45 GMT -5
yeap, you certainly have an old book on your hands LOL
When it comes to breeding methods, you're better off talking with those who are doing it NOW... even what was done 10 yrs ago isn't necessarily common practice now...
The very best advice i can give is KNOW your jill!! WATCH... identify the reasons for her behaviour and adjust your actions according to her needs.
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