|
Post by Klarissa on Apr 7, 2017 11:02:58 GMT -5
On one hand, pinky mice are kind of like jelly beans for ferrets 😂 Once introduced, ferrets are usually crazy for pinky mice. That's said wholeprey is often a mini switch, lol. You could introduce them now - mixed into a chicken soup. Yup, I said it (and I've done it), don't feel bad if that's way too icky. But once they love pinkies, pinky sliver, and whole pinkies can happen pretty fast. Ferret jelly beans, lol. Ferret see, ferret do happens! Ferrets don't realize new things are food, watching others may help reinforce the idea the meats food. It's great that Furret has put on weight! Raw works so fast. I see you list Panda is underweight, and looking at her picture I wanted to let you know she looks good Ferrets should look like a long, uniform tube sock. All of their shapes will change as raw helps them become more muscular.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2017 8:27:14 GMT -5
So, Thursday night they went kibble free. Friday (yesterday) They were also kibble free. I failed to weigh Furret yesterday though. Oops! Anyway, I have 5oz in the cage and if it runs out (watching them eat and it runs out) then I put in another 5oz. Or (like yesterday) I was gone a chunk of the day. I didn't send my neighbor over to hand feed Furret. Since she was more interested with friends eating, I decided she would be ok for that meal. My butcher (both of them) had no beef heart. I picked up beef liver, beef tongue, some beef to make into slivers. I also picked up chicken thighs, chicken heart and gizzards mix (how they sell it) and chicken liver. I am going to order from Hare Today later. Purchase some more of the whole ground up feed. I am going to cut this most recent purchase up into slivers. I may do some of the tongue into the small cubes as well. It is a lot of meat. Then put it in one of the freezers. I need to get some bins for the freezer to organize it for the raw fed food. They are upright freezers and organized pretty well as they are, but small meal bags would need more help. Could you tell me a little bit more about feeding fish? I have seen several people post that they have fed it, not often, but sometimes. I live near the Great Lakes and we have a family owned Fish Monger. They have local fish and it is good quality. Maybe a once in a while meal? I am trying to decide what to introduce to them next. Or is it better to wait and get them onto a eating larger chunks before I introduce a different source of protein?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2017 8:34:45 GMT -5
She does? Ok, I feel better about her. They were just so skinny when they came to me. I worry too much about them, I am sure.
I will post new weights and pictures on Monday. Does that work? I should have looked at the requirements.
I forgot to mention that yesterday they ate 15oz of food. I came home from the zoo and I caught S'more eating the last little bit. Then again not too log before bed I caught Itty eating the last little bit. They are in the living room, so they are part of the family. I put in 5oz over night and it was empty this morning. I need to up the amount!
This morning they have 6oz of rough ground beef mixture and small cubes of chicken thighs.
|
|
|
Post by Klarissa on Apr 8, 2017 8:41:26 GMT -5
It is fantastic they are now kibble free AND Furret is eating on her own! Great job! It sucks they didn't have beef heart, but lucky you scored some beef heart. Heart is essential for ferrets because it contains taurine, an essential amino acid for brain, heart & eye health. Taurine is highest in muscles that work a lot, typically this is the heart. Cows chew lots of cud, so their tongues get lots of work making them a suitable, short term replacement for heart. It can also be helpful to keep Taurine supplement around just in case. Now that you're moving away from soup and towards frankenprey, it's important you understand how to create a balanced menu I'd like you to construct a week long menu (7 days, 14 meals), using the proteins you current have. As you incorporate more proteins, we can rework the menu. Fish is awesome for ferrets, as an occasional meal. Fish is full of healthy fats, and also provides great enrichment with the smells & texture. Too much fish will make for some stinky ferrets though, so no more than once a week. If they will be wild caught they should be frozen for 2-3 weeks first just as a precaution.
|
|
|
Post by Klarissa on Apr 8, 2017 8:54:32 GMT -5
A day or two between new proteins can make sure they're no reactions to proteins. 2-3 new proteins a week if you're ferrets are up for trying new things! That said some ferrets are finnicky, and new protein becomes a mini switch. If you're ferrets will accept new proteins as chunks or slivers - that is fantastic! But if you have to start with a soup/puddin for a new protein it's okay They are 15 oz! Little piggies, that's awesome! It sounds like they know momma is giving them the best. Maybe Furret was your ferret initiation, and now you're in! Weights & pictures weekly is great The numbers are important in case of illness, where going off food or diarrhea, every oz counts. However, the number overall doesn't indicate health weight as well as shape does. I have three females that weigh around 1- 1.5lbs, and a fourth female who weighs nearly 3lbs. She's not fat, she's just a big female. Conversely, I have 2 smallers males around 3lbs, and I have one male who is 4.5lbs LEAN in the summer, 5lbs in the winter. He's huge 😂 As long as their body looks good, then they're a good weight. Keep in mind they may gain weight, but look leaner as they are on raw for longer. They get more muscular, and lose fat. It's great to keep track for health reasons, but it's also amazing to see the changes. You & your little gang are doing great!!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2017 12:09:14 GMT -5
I know. I was told 15oz is a lot for 4 female ferrets. *shrugs* That is what I put in there and I catch them finishing it before the time is up so... I use a kitchen scale to measure that. I use a postal scale (purchased just for the ferrets) to weigh my stinkers.
They seem to have slowed up today. I guess they were excited over beef? lol
|
|
|
Post by Klarissa on Apr 9, 2017 7:26:34 GMT -5
Ferrets tend to eat more in the beginning of their transition, as if they're bodies are catching up. Ferrets also eat more if the food is an easy to eat form, like soup/grinds. Which is fine in the beginning If I gave my brats a whole rabbit they will eat around 1lbs/day... If I give them rabbit grinds they will eat close to double, lol. Lazy, little piglets.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 14:53:40 GMT -5
I am writing one up. Is it funny that it is giving me anxiety? Even though I have examples and what not. *sighs* This weekend has been rough. I am functional, but anxiety is bad. I haven't weighed or taken pics for the day.
I put in some pieces. Heart, gizzards, and chicken thigh pieces. It was well received.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 15:02:06 GMT -5
How do I count the whole animal grind (bone and all) from Hare Today? Is it considered a bone in day? How would I count the organs in it? Or would I not?
Tomorrow I am introducing the bone in grind of rabbit.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 15:21:27 GMT -5
Monday AM: 1/2 Chicken heart whole, 1/4 chicken gizzards cut in half, 1/4 chicken thigh chunks Monday PM: 1/4 Chicken liver & 3/4 Chicken thigh
Tuesday AM: Bone in Rabbit Grind Tuesday PM: Beef tongue and beef pieces (size of a chicken heart)
Wednesday AM: Bone in Rabbit grind Wednesday PM: Chicken heart
Thursday AM: Bone in rabbit grind Thursday PM: Chicken wings (Slightly beaten with a hammer)
Friday AM: Chicken wings Friday PM: Bone in Rabbit grind
Saturday AM: Chicken wings Saturday PM: 1/2 beef tongue & 1/2 beef pieces
Sunday AM: 1/2 beef liver and 1/2 chicken gizzards Sunday PM: Chicken wings
I have some bone in rabbit chunks coming, pinky mice, more bone in rough ground rabbit, and whole carcass ground cavies.
What can you tell me about trying out chicken/turkey necks? I have read that you might need to hit them with a hammer a few times to help out the ferrets who are beginning to eat bone, like with the chicken wings. I am going to hit up a meat market an hour away while I am in that town on Wednesday. I can't believe I am having issues finding beef heart.
|
|
|
Post by katt on Apr 11, 2017 0:29:03 GMT -5
I am writing one up. Is it funny that it is giving me anxiety? Even though I have examples and what not. *sighs* This weekend has been rough. I am functional, but anxiety is bad. I haven't weighed or taken pics for the day. You can do it!!!! You are doing an awesome job so far. I feel you on the anxiety - it sucks. But try not to let this get to you. Even if it is completely wrong that is okay - we will help you fix it until you have it down pat. That's what we are here for!
|
|
|
Post by katt on Apr 11, 2017 0:31:28 GMT -5
How do I count the whole animal grind (bone and all) from Hare Today? Is it considered a bone in day? How would I count the organs in it? Or would I not? Tomorrow I am introducing the bone in grind of rabbit. Check the grind ingredients on the website as sometimes they remove parts. That said, a whole grind is a "whole prey" meal. You can refer to this chart for help determining how to adjust your menu: holisticferretforum.com/natural-diet/raw-diet-the-meat-of-the-site/balancing-frankenprey-with-alternative-meals/Remember - even if there are errors DON'T STRESS IT - we will help you work through it until it is perfect. The trial and error or menu building is how you get the process down and learn how to balance and make adjustments yourself. You've got this!
|
|
|
Post by Klarissa on Apr 11, 2017 6:29:27 GMT -5
Katt posted the link to an excellent chart that balances grinds/wholeprey in a frankenprey diet. Grinds do count as a bone-in meal. Also, gizzards are a muscle meat Chicken necks are great! They're the perfect size for ferrets & not too hard to chop/smash up. Turkey neck on the other hand can be a little tougher, as turkey is bigger. I feed turkey neck, but it requires smashing it A LOT, lol. Yummy Hare Today order! You are doing wonderful job transitioning your ferrets & giving them a phenomenal diet We are here to help, not just until the ferrets are switched but for you too!
|
|
|
Post by Klarissa on Apr 11, 2017 6:50:32 GMT -5
Your menu is good for the first menu! You will make a few before your switch is over Isn't having multiple ferrets great? There is one important difference between feeding one vs many ferrets: You can't​ feed more than one type of meat, per meal. For example: heart & gizzards, or organs & bone. This is because the little stinkers will pick and choose what they want to eat. You're serving balance, but they may not be eating balanced - little stinkers, lol. This means organ meals where heart, liver & "other organ" are served together have to be pureed. It works out well, because it saves freezer space & offers them a meal in a different format. Menu requirements: 7-9 Bone in meals ✓ 1.5 Heart meals ✓ 3-4 Muscle meat meals ✓ 1.5 Organ meals × 3 Protein Sources ✓ Your organ meals are just a smidge short. Ideally, we suggest liver & "other organ". Other organ is any organ that secretes: brain, kidney, pancreas, testes, etc. *Stomach & lungs not included* Pork kidney tends to be the easiest to find. However, if you cannot find another organ it can be balanced with liver alone There should be two organ meals/weekly: 1) 1/2 Heart + 1/4 liver + 1/4 kidney (OR 1/2 liver) 2) 1/2 Liver + 1/2 Other organ (OR Just liver). I am going to tag katt, to make sure that "other organ" is replaced by liver, when using liver only for organs.
|
|
|
Post by katt on Apr 13, 2017 1:15:44 GMT -5
Yes, "other organ" can be replaces by liver. The total organ content of the diet is 10%, of which AT LEAST half should be liver. It can ALL be liver, but it is BETTER to have other organs like kidney, spleen, etc in the mix. As for mixing proteins, a few notes..... - it IS ok to feed mixed protein means in terms of feeding say chicken mixed with pork. BUT you MUST be confident that ALL of your ferrets will eat each protein and not completely avoid one (e.g. if one ferret dislikes beef - don't leave them with the option to pick around it). Also, to ensure they are consistently getting sufficient variety, I personally do not advise mixing proteins on a regular basis. If you have very picky ferrets, I don't recommend doing it at all unless you have something like grinds that can be easily mixed together. - not feeding mixed meals refers more to the different nutritional categories. e.g. Don't mix organs with muscle meat. Organs and heart are best kept as their own (separate from muscle/bone) meals because they are absolutely critical parts of the diet AND are also the parts of the diet ferrets tend to be the most picky about. Go figure right?
|
|