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Post by azaelia on Mar 8, 2017 17:43:08 GMT -5
& I chucked out all the egg shells I've been hoarding because I didn't think i'd need it! Pmsl.
I took an egg with me. At one point I thought we were going 2 drown her it in. He did get enough blood from her ear but the machine wouldn't read from it, I think it was being smeared around in her fur too much.
I'll take some vaseline with me next time.
She's on Prednicare, is it the same thing as prednisolone?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2017 19:05:06 GMT -5
Yep. Prednicare contains the active ingredient Prednisolone. I hoard egg shells too. I grind them up and keep them in a container for "emergency use." haha!!
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Post by azaelia on Mar 9, 2017 20:23:13 GMT -5
Everyone did well today.
In the evening playtime Jasper was quieter than usual & just went straight to bed. After a while he shot up & retched alot but wasn't sick. He wasn't interested in food either. I didn't push him & I'll keep a close eye on him. I've heard they can be sick on a new diet so I'm not really worried. I'll check on him in the night though.
Everyone's poop is better today. Don't know if you saw my post on Facebook last night but Ellie did a scary poop lol. It was dark green & liquid. She had an awful lot of egg yesterday (almost a whole 1, which for her is alot, we usually split 1 between 3) @ the vets & stress too.
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Post by katt on Mar 10, 2017 0:57:38 GMT -5
Everyone did well today. In the evening playtime Jasper was quieter than usual & just went straight to bed. After a while he shot up & retched alot but wasn't sick. He wasn't interested in food either. I didn't push him & I'll keep a close eye on him. I've heard they can be sick on a new diet so I'm not really worried. I'll check on him in the night though. Being sick during the transition is not normal. They can have changes in their stools sure, and they can vomit if they eat too fast or have an allergy, but those are both different from being sick. I don't like the lethargy and retching. When did he last poop? What did it look like? How much did he eat today? Any other symptoms??
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Post by azaelia on Mar 10, 2017 7:09:35 GMT -5
OK. d*mn. Yesterday he ate at every meal, a teaspoon or more. He drank & he pooped. At the time of the retching (& by retching I mean the usual chug chug chug thing animals do before being sick) I didn't see him pee or poop. Otherwise he seemed himself.
This morning he's a little unsteady on his feet, he has had a poo, it's small, a little loose & a very dark green I think. I'll take a picture in a min. He's refusing all food. I even tried a tiny bit of kibble just to see, he was interested in that but wouldn't eat. He's just gone to bed again.
This seems to be typical Jasper. Every 6 - 8 months he'll do something similar, although most of the time it's much more severe. Antibiotics always sorts him. The vet seems to think it could be ulcers I think. I'm going to call the vet again, see if they can get him in & may try to get a bg done on him & Ellie at the same time.
In other news, the other two are frantically ransacking the room in search of the kibble lol
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Post by azaelia on Mar 10, 2017 7:13:30 GMT -5
Argh, can't get a stupid pic. It's more of a dark orange than green & is around half way between solid & loose. It's holding its shape.
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Post by azaelia on Mar 10, 2017 13:12:13 GMT -5
Quick update on Jasper - got the anti biotic from the vet. He seems OK now though. He's not eating much at all, but he's had some. He had a little dig in his sand pit & a wander through some tunnels. He's still a bit tottery on his legs but not too bad. I'm sure he'll be ok in 24 hours
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Post by azaelia on Mar 10, 2017 18:30:23 GMT -5
So I'm sat here trying to get Jasper to drink something, start thinking I'm gonna have to syringe it into his mouth when the little tinker starts running through the tunnels I've wrapped around the table legs. He enjoys it so much he turns around & does it again! He's just a little drama king when it comes to illness.
In all serious though, I hate having to force antibiotics down him, he struggles so much. Now he's avoiding me & it breaks my heart.
Obviously I'm going to make sure he has enough fluids tonight but I won't force feed him. Should I put him back on kibble for a day or 2 just so he gets better sustenance? I don't think he eats enough raw atm to keep his strength up when he's weak like this. After he'd finished in the tunnels he had a lie down in the middle of the floor
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 21:52:28 GMT -5
I asked someone who does ferret rescue (they have had very frequent lymphoma cases) and he told me they treat by monthly injections of Depridil (Methylprednisolone) and fortnightly vitamin B injections.
If Jasper isn't doing too well, I would definitely recommend finding a ferret knowledgeable vet so that he can be treated for his cancers. Ferrets are notorious for hiding pain and health issues. They hide then and then unfortunately they go downhill quite fast when we do start seeing issues.
Can you blend the mince until it is a smooth yogurt type consistency and texture? Then you can syringe feed him frequently to ensure he is eating. Otherwise if worst comes to worst, you can try blending in kibble with the raw and syringe feed him that way.
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Post by azaelia on Mar 11, 2017 18:30:27 GMT -5
Had a bit of a "happy accident" picked up Nutriment raw (Contains 80% fresh meat, 10% offal and 10%bone.Ingredients: British Chicken with Bone (dressed carcasses), British Beef Kidney, British Turkey Liver, Scottish Cold Water Salmon Oil, Raw Sea Kelp Powder (Laminaria japonica), Spirulina Powder (Spirulina platensis), Wheat Germ Oil (natural vitamin E)) instead of Vince as my supplier was out. Now I've just looked closer the wheat germ concerns me. but anyway, they've gone nuts for it, Jasper especially! If it's no good I'll give them the dog Vince the vet until I can get some cat. At this rate they'll have none left for night time.
Jasper was better this morning but this evening he's been a bit scary. He seems a bit dehydrated so I've given him some fluids. He's very tottery on his legs, stares into space & just flops on the floor. It'd been between 4 - 5 hours between feeding. In my limited knowledge that sounds like insulunoma. He did have a bg done in July last year & it came back slightly low, but it was during one of these "episodes" & he'd hardly eaten in 1 or 2 days.But he's eaten a considerable amount recently & now just seems weak. I'm going to feed every 30mins to an hour until late I can get him to the vet in the morning.
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Post by azaelia on Mar 12, 2017 7:02:18 GMT -5
Had a bg done this morning, Ellie- 4.3 jasper 4.1 I'm going to get another done when he's better as it's a bit low. He did have quite a lot of food last night too. Jasper seems better today
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2017 14:54:39 GMT -5
That does sound a bit low. I'm glad that Jasper is doing a bit better though. ^^
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2017 14:56:49 GMT -5
It would probably be safe to get the vet to put him on some pred, even a small starting dose since he sounds borderline insu. Ellie also sounds a bit low. I'd check her again in case. Normal blood glucose level is in the range of 90-125 mg/dL (4.95 Mmol/L - 6.88 Mmol/L)
Anything under 70 mg/dL (3.85 Mmol/L) is highly likely Insulinoma and near it is pretty borderline.
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Post by azaelia on Mar 13, 2017 18:40:00 GMT -5
so i need to start by saying isn't this a beautiful sight - this is what was left for me from their night time meal. & this is what it looked like before - sorry but i'm just so pleased lol! & then to make things even better, i put their morning meal on the floor with them thinking i'll feed them after i scoop some poop to turn around & see this - EEEEK proud mummy!!! but now . . . 1. Ferret's name: Jasper 2. Ferret's weight: 939g (-33g) 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. not much since friday night but the last 2 days he's gobbled it up! hard to say now he's eating from the bowl but it's certainly more than when he was spoon fed 4. Stools on various proteins. poops are returning to normal since his illness 5. Activity levels: he's still a little quiet 6. Weekly menu: until saturday it was vince the vet turkey, now it's nutriment chicken (the store was out) 1. Ferret's name: Ellie 2. Ferret's weight: 568g (+60g) 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. eating consistently by herself, she's having plenty 4. Stools on various proteins. poops are still normal at the moment 5. Activity levels: increased! 6. Weekly menu: until saturday it was vince the vet turkey, now it's nutriment chicken (the store was out) 1. Ferret's name: Frank 2. Ferret's weight: 1kg(-12g) 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. started eating on his own today, i've got my eye on him to make sure he's continuing to progress. 4. Stools on various proteins. poops are still normal at the moment 5. Activity levels: increased! 6. Weekly menu: until saturday it was vince the vet turkey, now it's nutriment chicken (the store was out) giving up with photobucket tonight, it keeps timing out & refusing 2 load. i'll post the rest of the updated pics tomorrow
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Post by katt on Mar 13, 2017 23:51:47 GMT -5
Prednisone can be damaging to the liver, however I do believe prednisolone is the one that will not cause too much of an issue. katt may have an input for this one. Ugh sorry I missed this - it got buried in notifications of new member requests. Also sorry for being MIA lately - I'm on my neuro rotation right now and it is kicking my butt. * I'll be done in 2 weeks and back to being more available. I know I'm repeating some of what Machan said, but wanted to further support and add to what she said.... I'm glad that Jasper seems to be doing better. Given his low BG and his cancer I would DEFINITELY ask the vet about starting him on pred or another steroid. As Machan pointed out, there are injectable steroids if you want to reduce syringing him meds. The injectable steroids have mixed results for insu, but could still go a long way to potentially helping his BG and his cancer. I also don't like that he hasn't been wanting to eat very much OR that he has a low BG. 4.1 BG is 73 in US measurements - meaning he is only a hair above being "insulinomic." Anything 70 (3.9) and below is diagnostic of insu. Between 70-90 (4.1-5.0) is borderline and definitely beginning to be worrisome. Normal FASTING BG is above 90 (5.0). Note the key word there - fasting (standard is a 3 hour fast). Their BG is higher after having eaten, so if they were not fasting and had borderline BG's, that means there's a darn strong chance that their actual fasting BG would be much lower and they may well have insulinoma. The (clinical) diagnostic criteria for insulinoma/"normal" ranges are based off of 3-hour fasting measurements. Frankly, fasting or not his BG is low enough that I'd say he **probably** has insu - then again, him not eating well for a few days does throw things off as well. But not enough so that I'm not concerned.... The combination of how low his BG is and his recent refusal of food is really concerning. I would really push you to ask your vet about the possibility of starting pred and/or other treatments. Honestly, I'm honestly still a bit surprised he isn't already on pred for his liver and spleen tumors. (WARNING THOUGH - since he IS prone to GI upset you will definitely want to ask about a carafate and/or pepcid regimen along with the pred, as pred an cause stomach irritation and ulcers. Also, if he refuses food again - get him to eat. I don't like force feeding, but if you have to syringe some food into him to keep his BG stable and keep him from crashing, then so be it. And the unsteadiness on his feet, staring off, and flopping are definitely concerning signs of him heading towards a crash. At the bare minimum I would start monitoring his BG very closely. If more frequent meals (now that he is feeling better) and raw diet don't help stabilize his BG and symptoms then I would reeeeally be looking into pred. RE giving meds and stressing him out - what are the meds you were giving? Is one metronidazole (flagyl)? If so that one is notorous for tasting horrible and there isn't much you can do to hide it. Metro aside though, many people have good luck with hiding meds in a treat. Make sure the treat is NOT their regular food or if they do still dislike it they can develop an aversion to their food and stop eating altogether which is a huge problem obviously. I use a little dallop of chicken or turkey baby food, warm water, and a drizzle of salmon oil - mix it in with Koda's meds and he laps it right up. The first few times I had to spoon feed - now he eats it on his own and actually gets quite perturbed if I am late with his nightly "treat." This does not work for all ferrets, and does not work for all meds - so play with it a bit. See if you can find what works. If he will eat meat babyfood, you may be able to hide pred, pepcid, and some of the less horrible antibiotics in there. (Metro stick with the syringe or he will hate the treat). (Again I emphasize - do NOT use anything that is his regular food for this.) Sorry if I'm a bit (aka super) scattered. I'm exhausted and have a cold and stressed by neuro so my brain is all over the place. I hope it mostly makes sense though and please ask and I'll clarify if not! hahaha Also - keep up the awesome work!
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