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Post by marietta on Apr 16, 2017 21:16:53 GMT -5
How are they doing on their bone-in now? They are doing well on hens they seem to only eat much of the duck wings. I gave them duck spine and they don't really eat as much that. They probably eat about half of it versus almost all of any hen piece. I'm going to start them on pork tomorrow evening. Here is my weekly info. Albie has dropped a significant amount of weight. Weekly Info Albie Weight: 1030g Gwin Weight: 1220g Between them they are still eating about 4-6 ounces per day. They are on cornish hen with bone in and some duck bone in. They are eating heart and also liver and kidney purée (Following sample frankenprey menu). Gwin is still more receptive to egg than Albie. Alvie does eat some though. Stools seem to be more formed than they were. Still seem a little seedy. They both seem to be pretty energetic. However Gwin doesn't want to play rough with Albie as much the past few days and Albie does which is creating some problems. Gwin is hissing a lot and Albie is just attacking and Gwin cries like it hurts. Gwin does look like he has a spot that Albie bit him and it looks sore plus the lump and I don't know if that hurts him. So yeah...
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Post by LindaM on Apr 16, 2017 22:27:39 GMT -5
Have you been giving them the duck as is, or with bone smashed up? Duck bones are somewhat tougher than chicken and even more so cornish hen, especially the weight bearing bones.
It sounds like they are still eating within the acceptable range, that's about 2-3oz each a day.
Poor Gwin, has Albie broken the skin on that spot? If there's a scab and if it's possible that Albie keeps reopening it when he rough-houses with Gwin, see about applying a bit of Sudocrem (if you don't have some, you can order off of Amazon) to it. It'll help the ouchie heal, and taste like absolute butt which can dissuade Albie from that spot.
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Post by Sherry on Apr 17, 2017 9:11:30 GMT -5
With the duck wings, generally they can only consume the tip, and maybe the smaller bone from the middle part if broken up for them. but chewing meat off the bone is great stimulation! TBH I'd be trying them out on regular chicken wings now as they should have the jaw strength. Just segment and if necessary cut the middle in between the bones, and crack up the drumette portion. Also time to introduce another protein! Just whatever you can get should be fine. As for the weight loss, it is spring time and the time they should be dropping it off My big 4lber Aristotle is being weighed in officially today, but he feels about 3lbs now As long as appetite and energy are good then odds are it is due to that.
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Post by marietta on Apr 18, 2017 8:13:59 GMT -5
LindaM I have been doing the smashing/cutting method in that video that you shared with me. And to answer about the Gwin and Albie tension yes Albie has broken the skin on Gwin's back. What is the difference between Sudocrem and something like Neosporen? Sherry I gave them chicken wings recently (chopped up a bit) and they ate them so I will continue with that and start trying other parts of the chicken. I also gave them pork last night and they ate some of it so I will continue to try and get them more use to the pork on their muscle meat days. I was just concerned about Albie's weight drop because it was so drastic. He normally has been loosing small amounts at a time. He does have plenty of energy though so he is probably fine. Albie has been quite a bit more aggressive lately though as I mentioned in my last post with him being really rough with Gwin. Poor Gwin keeps hiding from Albie behind this bin we have in the corner. I feel bad for him I don't really know what to do to help the situation and keep Albie from attacking Gwin so much. Also almost forgot I may have found a local farm that raises quail!
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Post by Sherry on Apr 18, 2017 9:53:24 GMT -5
I forget, but how old is Albie now? If he is being really aggressive adrenal comes to mind. Sexual aggression is one of the symptoms. As for his weight drop as long as his energy level is fine I wouldn't worry too much And fingers crossed about the quail! For now we will work on getting them on larger and larger pieces, and getting new proteins into their diet. What size pieces are they taking now?
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Post by marietta on Apr 18, 2017 20:12:06 GMT -5
Sherry Albie is about 1 1/2 years old. I'm not 100% sure if Albie is being more aggressive or if Gwin has just calmed down a lot lately and doesn't want to play as much with Albie. It is a little hard to tell. I think Albie is being a little more aggressive but I am wondering if it is just because he is trying to get Gwin to play. I just wish I could get Albie to cool his jets a bit while Gwin's wounds heal so maybe Gwin will want to play again. They are eating pretty large pieces. Maybe a couple inches. I mostly just chop up bone inside the intact piece of meat and some times if it is large I will chop it in half.
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Post by Sherry on Apr 19, 2017 11:19:02 GMT -5
On the food front- they are doing great! Start making the pieces larger. Good example would be a chicken wing. Try just segmenting, cutting between the two bones in the middle, and break the bone up in the drummette. Keep introducing new proteins if possible. Beef, pork, quail, turkey are some you should be able to access. They are close to graduating! As for Albie, when he grabs Gwin by the scruff, does he do it while alligator rolling, or is he climbing on top of him to do it?
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Post by LindaM on Apr 19, 2017 15:49:52 GMT -5
Sorry for getting back to you so late. I believe you could probably use a little bit of something like Neosporin on it if Albie or even Gwin accidentally scratches off the scabs and reopens a wound. My experience with Neosporin in animals has mostly been that they just end up licking it off.. so it doesn't really deter them to leave the spot alone, either on themselves or on others. The Sudocrem seems so far to deter them because it tastes really bad by comparison. But both are antibacterial.
If the wound remains scabbed (thus the healing process remains uninterrupted), then there's no need to apply anything. It'll just continue healing on its own.
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Post by marietta on Apr 19, 2017 17:07:45 GMT -5
Sherry Albie is doing a bit of both. Sometimes he climbs on top other times he rolls.
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Post by marietta on Apr 20, 2017 6:32:06 GMT -5
It is so frustrating how sometimes they will eat their heart meal fine with hearts cut in half but other times they barely even touch them.
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Post by Sherry on Apr 20, 2017 9:51:17 GMT -5
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Post by marietta on Apr 20, 2017 12:11:38 GMT -5
Sherry it actually doesn't really look like that. It is more that he jumps on top of him and continues playing. The concerning part for Gwin is that Albie then bites down on Gwin's scruff or shoulder blade area and because he has a wound already it is hurting him. My husband and I were also talking about this a bit last night and we think we might be noticing his aggression more now because Gwin is not playing back as much. I really hope Gwin being less playful isn't a sign that the lump is more than just a harmless lump. On a food note I am going to go to the farm that sells quail this weekend and hopefully get my hands on some. I also have a package of quail carcass grind in my freezer from hare today and I was wondering if feeding that would count as a meat meal or bone in meal?
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Post by LindaM on Apr 20, 2017 13:01:45 GMT -5
Which one did you get, the dressed quail or the whole carcass one that includes feathers? The one Quail ground from Hare Today is whole, dressed quail that got ground up, and the other is whole quail, feathers and all, thrown through a grinder. These are considered a complete meal (include muscle, heart, organ and bone), though the first one seems very slightly unbalanced to me as the organ percentage is very low 2% versus 10%, and the Whole Carcass one is better balanced by comparison. But as you'll be using this as a protein introduction, not a long term thing, and since you are still giving your normal organ meals, either one should be just fine. Something to keep in mind should you ever need it for the future, usually, when we do things like whole prey, grinds, or FDR along with Frankenprey meals in our menu, this chart should be used to balance things out: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/17989/balancing-frankenprey-diets-prey-grinds
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Post by Sherry on Apr 21, 2017 9:08:09 GMT -5
If the quail has bones, whether grind or whole, it is a bone in meal And something that will help is to get some sudocream(you may have to order it in from amazon). They hate the taste of it. It will also help Gwin heal faster. Slather it on his neck/shoulders and it should dissuade Albie from doing that.
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Post by marietta on Apr 21, 2017 15:20:58 GMT -5
I have some sudocrem on order so I just have to wait for it to come.
Once they are introduced to a few different proteins would you recommend giving different meals with different proteins through out the week or would you stick to one protein like buy a chicken and feed them all of it through the week then switch to duck or quail or something else the next week and so on. Does it really matter?
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