Mumble's Transition Thread!

[LindaM]

Let us know how it goes. It's normal to have some detox stools which can look and smell very funky and vary a lot when you're switching them at first, and these can last a few weeks.. but like Sherry said, green poops should not be happening consistently.

Keep us updated!

[Deleted]

Will do!

Looks like the green diarrhea was just the one time (well, a few times, but in a row, so one-time digestive issue) and now it's perfectly normal in color and not diarrhea. I added eggshell powder to his meat since he isn't on bones yet (though we're probably gonna try bones in the next few days!) which seems to have helped with the diarrhea. I also bought some flavorless pedialyte to add to his water if this happens again.

First potential vet didn't work out but I'm calling the other two to ask them some questions and setting up an appointment today. (He doesn't seem sick anymore but still good to check, besides he needs his general checkup.)

[LindaM]

Always a good idea to get his general check-up done. As well as to talk to your vet about some general things. If I were you I'd also ask the vet their stance on using the DES implant to help prevent adrenal disease, a lot of people have been really struggling with vets not wanting to listen when it comes to things like that. Or ferrets exhibiting adrenal symptoms and the vets just not wanting to do the DES and saying there isn't enough symptoms on the ferret or proof the implant could be of benefit.

If you plan on any vaccinations, that will be another subject to discuss with your vet too. A lot of vets are fine with and understand due to the risks involved, that once-off vaccinations are okay. Some may be rather pushy about doing annual vaccinations, usually Rabies, especially if you live somewhere it is required annually. Though a lot of people just don't let their ferrets near strangers who might get bitten and demand a rabies test to be done. Though a lot of vets know that the more you vaccinate, the higher the risk of a really adverse reaction fatal to the ferret.

So I hope your little one can get a good vet that will take care of their health needs.

There's some other things you should get if you have not yet, and a lot of it may already just be lying around the house, it's all for your ferret medical & emergency box:

* Ferret Journal that keeps track of your ferret's medical history - name, gender, age/birth date, medical conditions, list of medicines they might be on, vaccine statuses, weight history, diet, sensitives, and behavioral concerns.
* Contact details to your vet, or nearest exotic ER vet - this is very important in case someone else needs to take them in.
* Food in case of emergency, some FDR works great for that.
* Carnivore Care (used for very sick ferrets to eat, as some may be too sick to digest raw)
* Syringes - 5ml and 10ml
* Blockage Protocol Supplies - Pure Pumpkin Puree, Vaseline (original one), and an Instruction sheet in case anyone who doesn't know the Protocol needs to use it.
* Sudocreme (bad tasting antiseptic cream)
* Sterile Saline Solution (used to flush out wounds)
* Sterile Saline Eye Solution (ones used for LASIK patients are great, they have nothing extra added unlike allergy or red eye drops)
* Corn Starch (used like Styptic Powder to stop bleeding, usually if you trim a nail too short by accident)
* Oatmeal (used for an Oatmeal bath to relieve severe itching)
* Tweezers
* Ferret/Small Animal Nail Clippers
* Scissors
* Q-tips, Cotton Balls, and Cotton Pads
* Crafting Ice-cream or lollipop sticks (used to make a quick splint)
* Disposable gloves
* Disposable, small plastic ziplock baggies/disposable small containers (used for grabbing samples for the vet)
* Gauze wraps & pads
* Bandages and Dressings - bandages should be anti-chew, but even then, always supervised in case of chewing and possible ingestion. Stick with smaller sizes, but have some variety as well.

If you end up with an insulinoma ferret, keeping some Karo Syrup or Golden Syrup can be a lifesaver to help bring them out of a crash.

[Deleted]

LindaM , Thank you SO much for this list! Bringing it to the store with me tonight and going to prepare him a box of first aid/med supplies.

I haven't been keeping up very well on measuring the actual amounts he's eating at a time, so hoping to improve that.

Given today so far (after eating his leftovers from last night):
49 grams/1.7 ounces of chicken liver, giblets, and thigh, with a pinch of eggshell powder added. (It's pretty soupy so I'll keep this in mind when checking his poop health.) Also, on that note, all normal/good looking still so far today.

Edit: I think I may have messed up the measurement before, oops...I need to work on my math.
Fed him again:
About 39 grams of chicken kidneys, gizzard, some heart, and thigh. Pinch of eggshell powder. Soupy again.

Edit: It's time for me to sleep soon and he didn't eat any more without prompting, but had several chunks when prompted. He seems to like doing most of his eating and drinking when I'm asleep.

[Deleted]

2nd Grocery trip! We got:
(Lots of!)Chicken Wings with skin (note to self: ask about skin vs. non skin on things and also what egg replaces if added to the diet/what to add it to and how much/etc)
Ground(?) veal muscle meat
Ground lamb muscle meat
Ground beef muscle meat (These aren't ground like hamburger meat, but not sure how to describe)
A cow liver
Another pack of hearts/gizzards chicken mix (mostly gizzards- need to check butcher for more hearts/ask how often its ok to replace with a taurine supplement)

[LindaM]

You're very welcome! It's good to have things ready in case you require them. We all know ferrets have a bad habit of needing something medical at the worst times.

It can also help if you portion out your meals in specific amounts and then freeze and just thaw as you go along. I tend to portion into 2.3oz (I just use 2oz of it), and 4oz containers. They're rectangular/square, so they fit stacked in rows very easily inside another big rectangular container and thus doesn't waste any space in my freezer and are neatly organized. I have another container with portioned bone-in meals in ziplocks.

So if you portion out meals ahead of time, get used to how much those portion weights look physically, you can decently eyeball how much got eaten too on the days you forget to actually weigh. But using a kitchen scale to weigh their food for portioning and checking to see how much got eaten, as well as using it to weigh the ferret, is pretty useful when raw feeding.

It's great that he's still doing good, so let's hope that was just a fluke or maybe some stress related poops.

All your ground meats, are still gong to just count as muscle meats. But you're doing good if you can introduce him to those. Veal is still beef though, it's just immature beef since it comes from calves. I tend to try and avoid meats from baby animals personally.

The heart+gizzard packs are gonna eat a hole in your wallet, they really cheat you with those. I go to the asian grocery store about and hour and a half drive from here and buy my hearts there. I usually pick up a pack or two of hearts, usually costs me around $2.50 for a 2lbs pack. So a MUCH better deal, even though I have to drive a bit to get them.

You can supplement with taurine powder only when you cannot find hearts or beef tongue, but it's not a long term solution and so you should keep searching for hearts. The supplement amount is 500mg daily. Each ferret needs 250mg in their morning meal, and 250mg in their evening meal. You can't give the full 500mg in a single go as they will just pee out the excess taurine that their body didn't absorb yet. But it should really just be used if you cannot get a hold of hearts(doesn't only have to be chicken btw) or beef tongue, and only until you can, so it's just a temporary measure.

I do the weekly egg as a hairball preventative, so it's more like a treat, instead of really replacing anything in their diet. You can add egg with anything, it's often used to entice stubborn ferrets to try raw meat or soup for the first times, or when introducing a new protein. As long as you keep to the 1 raw egg per ferret, per week (double in shedding season) rule, you'll be fine. You can take the raw egg and split it up through the week too, just keep it in a container in the fridge.

[LindaM]

Here, I thought I'd include a photo of the 2.3oz containers I use. I weigh and put 2oz of food in them. You can portion your muscle meats, grinds, or soups like this (due to the size bone-in meats require, it obviously doesn't work for those, I just ziplock my bone-in). It neatly stores any size cuts of meat, from the sliver stage to the large chunks. I get these containers from either the Dollar Tree or Family Dollar, preferably Dollar Tree since they package 10 containers for $1, versus 8 containers for $1.

The ferret scale is just a simple one from Walmart, cost about $15. But has a nice function where you can weigh the empty container first and it subtracts the amount it weighs when you weigh again, so you will get the exact amount when adding food instead.

As you can see from the photo.. my two fuzzspawns know that they are used for their food... I bought a few more last night, and forgot the bag on the couch.. I had to go dig out containers and lids scattered throughout all the drawers in both my and my husband's dressers in our bedroom.

[Deleted]

Thank you so much yet again for the ideas! I think I'd like to try making saved meals like that that consist of the full balance every day, do you happen to know why people don't tend to do that and tend to do a type of meat a day? Not sure if it actually benefits somehow or is just for the sake of organization.

The hearts unfortunately only come that way at the grocery store; I suspected they might not be a great deal so that's good to know. It only had about 3 per pack. Going to try the two butchers in town and call around other grocery stores if necessary, and get the taurine supplement too just in case. Is it the 500 daily EVERY day, or just on 'heart days', by the way? And did you say tongue works as a heart replacement, too?

This morning update: he had a few chunks of meat left, but I did wake up earlier and notice he didn't eat most of it until this morning. Gave him a 94 gram chicken wing with skin, chopped into a couple pieces. He immediately recognized it as food and is going at it now. Anticipating if he actually eats the bones or just around them.

[LindaM]

Well, even my containers do not contain both meals in one for a single day, as your menu would likely have multiple types on a day. And you should always keep your meat types separate, so organs in their own containers, muscle meat in their own, hearts in their own, bone-in on their own. Remember, the weekly frankenprey menu lists 7-9 bone-in meals, 3-4 muscle meats (1.5 needing to be a meal of just hearts), and 1.5 organ meal (half of which needs to be liver).

I'm incredibly OCD about things, so I like to keep them very organized. My containers are all weighed, and labeled with color labels depicting what is inside it. I try to do multiple proteins for my ferrets, more so than the minimum 3. I have beef, rabbit, pork, chicken, duck right now for muscle meat all in portioned sizes in containers. I also have containers of just chicken hearts. And containers with just livers. And bone-in in ziplocks. So what I do is I take out enough containers that each meal requires. Say on a Wednesday, I have a Heart meal in the morning, and a Muscle meal in the evening, then I'd take out containers with heart, and some with muscle meat. I have two ferrets, I need to grab about 2 containers of each to thaw for that day. Say on a day with a bone-in morning meal and an organ evening meal, I'd grab some organ containers, and some bone-in ziplocks and thaw those out.

I hope that makes sense. It works the easiest in the beginning of a switch when you're still getting your ferrets used meats, as you'll use a lot more of muscle meats to get them used to the taste than they'd normally get in a balanced menu. It works great for me still because I do multiple proteins and I'm pretty much stocked up for several months.

Yep, I know, and I had a horrible time myself trying to get them off butchers, they just refused. So I went searching at the Asian grocery stores, and returned home happy and with all the hearts I needed. It's 500mg total every day. And yes, beef tongue is a wonderful replacement for hearts (beef tongue though, not just any tongue). Beef tongue is a bit pricey.. I think I saw for about $20-30, but it's a much better option to go with than the taurine powder. But keeping some powder around just in case, is a good emergency back-up measure.

Sounds great! The first few times do not be surprised if the little bugger leaves you a nice little bone mess, it takes a while for them to build up the jaw strength to eat bones, and as that gets better, he will leave less and less bone remainders behind.

[Sherry]

The main reason for balance over the week is to be certain they are getting what they need in the correct ratio Example is if you feed JUST liver/organ, then you know for sure who is eating liver/organ. Same for bone in. Many ferrets tend to be lazy and if given the chance will completely ignore eating bone. If they have necks/wings for a meal they pretty much have to eat it or go hungry.

[Deleted]

@sherry, OHH ok that makes sense. Not sure at this point if we're going to get another guy, but we've certainly done a lot of thinking about it......

I've gotten a bit behind in keeping track of what he's eating, but at this point he's fully transitioned onto raw with bone, so I'm going to consider this the first official day of a raw balanced diet and try to keep better track of it. That said, he's not really totally done as he's only had chicken, I believe, and needs to be introduced to other meats.

This morning: A chicken wing he had stashed since the night before. Guessing around 80-90 grams.
This afternoon: A mix of ground veal and lamb, 76 grams, and 20 grams of the usual chicken chunks mix to remind him that it's food. (Gizzards/liver/thigh)

[LindaM]

Not quite yet, raw diet sure, but it's not balanced just yet. For a balanced raw menu, you need him to eat a minimum of 3 different proteins. This also means that your bone-in meals should consist of more than just chicken too, so perhaps see if you can get some turkey or duck necks, or even turkey wings, or quail.

As for the other proteins, lamb is a good start, I wouldn't really bother getting the veal again once you're done with it (it's baby animal, doesn't have all they need) and instead try beef. Though I'd still try and introduce some more, like pork, duck, or turkey. Ferrets seem to show more sensitivities to chicken and beef overall, so you want some other proteins to fall back onto.

And you'll want him to be able to eat his muscle meat as chunks versus ground, so there's still a bit of work there to get him doing that with the other proteins.

But you've got a mentor now, so you'll be working with them to get all this done in the thread here (if you haven't seen yet): holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/22610/mumbles-switching-thread-desiree

[katt]

Congrats - you have been assigned a mentor. This thread will now be closed. You can find your official switching thread here: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/22610/mumbles-switching-thread-desiree

[katt]

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