Switching from raw to kibble?

[Deleted]

Hi everyone! 

I know this is going to sound really backwards, since generally speaking, it's a switch from kibble to raw meat. But here's my situation:

I recently came to own two fuzzbutts, one white-gray female named Panda, and another blackish/brown  male named Pepsi. Their previous owner had them on a frankenprey diet of rabbit, beef, and chicken, and she gave me the list of what they ate what days and the substitutes if the stores ran out of stock and I thought I'd be able to afford it, but sadly, my job cut my hours and now I can't.

So, here's my question(s) - what is a good quality kibble for these guys? I've heard Orijen, or Wysong, but then I've also been told that Wysong had a problem with switching their formula a few years ago and made a bunch of the people who fed it to their ferrets sick? Is Wysong Epigen 90 better than Digestive Support? 

Also, if I'm switching them over to kibble, is there a process to that, or do I just quit feeding them raw and just put a bowl of kibble in their cage and see what happens? I'm so confused. >.<

Thanks in advance for any help!
~Nymph

[LindaM]

Honestly, the cost you'd be spending on the high-quality kibbles will amount to the same you would pay for frankenprey (and more, if you take into account possible vet bills when things like insulinoma strike).

Meat like chicken, beef, turkey, and even pork (untreated) are very easy to come by and not at all expensive, unless you're buying premium cuts that you do not need to be getting. And if you have the freezer space, buying meat in bulk is going to work out a lot cheaper, and that includes what kibbles will end up costing in the long run.

But if you are truly set on this, and while it isn't recommended, the choice is still ultimately up to you and you alone. Wysong Digestive is the original Epigen 90 formula, so that's the one to use instead as the new one causes tummy upsets. Orijen is good, it does contain peas which should be avoided in kibbles, but it's so far down the ingredient list that the actual amount in there is very likely negligible. NV Instinct Duck & Turkey is also a good kibble to get and doesn't contain any peas at all, some of the other NV Instinct kibbles do.

When feeding kibble, you need to be mixing at least 3 brands together at all times. We do this because if a company takes one off the market or changes the formula, the ferrets will still eat something. Ferrets imprint on their food, so you can't simply change them, this includes switching between kibble brands that they haven't had before, they won't see it as food at first. Same goes for switching between raw and kibble, they won't see the kibble as food and may starve themselves to death instead. It needs to be a gradual switch until they see it as food.

When you kibble feed you need to brush their teeth around 2-4 times a week, since their teeth will go bad. You will also experience that their poops will get bigger and stink more. They need to have a lot of water always available, kibble fed ferrets are very close to dehydration at all times. And you'll still need to do the 1 raw egg, per ferret, per week for hairball prevention anyway (2 during shedding).

And please, do not think I don't understand or respect your financial situation. I totally do. I used to kibble feed my ferrets, and then partial kibble and partial raw, but switched to full raw because I started seeing the change the raw was making in my ferrets and their health. So far cost-wise, our basic frankenprey has run pretty much even with what we spent on kibble.

[Deleted]

Feb 6, 2017 16:47:40 GMT -5 LindaM said:

Honestly, the cost you'd be spending on the high-quality kibbles will amount to the same you would pay for frankenprey (and more, if you take into account possible vet bills when things like insulinoma strike).

Meat like chicken, beef, turkey, and even pork (untreated) are very easy to come by and not at all expensive, unless you're buying premium cuts that you do not need to be getting. And if you have the freezer space, buying meat in bulk is going to work out a lot cheaper, and that includes what kibbles will end up costing in the long run.

But if you are truly set on this, and while it isn't recommended, the choice is still ultimately up to you and you alone. Wysong Digestive is the original Epigen 90 formula, so that's the one to use instead as the new one causes tummy upsets. Orijen is good, it does contain peas which should be avoided in kibbles, but it's so far down the ingredient list that the actual amount in there is very likely negligible. NV Instinct Duck & Turkey is also a good kibble to get and doesn't contain any peas at all, some of the other NV Instinct kibbles do.

When feeding kibble, you need to be mixing at least 3 brands together at all times. We do this because if a company takes one off the market or changes the formula, the ferrets will still eat something. Ferrets imprint on their food, so you can't simply change them, this includes switching between kibble brands that they haven't had before, they won't see it as food at first. Same goes for switching between raw and kibble, they won't see the kibble as food and may starve themselves to death instead. It needs to be a gradual switch until they see it as food.

When you kibble feed you need to brush their teeth around 2-4 times a week, since their teeth will go bad. You will also experience that their poops will get bigger and stink more. They need to have a lot of water always available, kibble fed ferrets are very close to dehydration at all times. And you'll still need to do the 1 raw egg, per ferret, per week for hairball prevention anyway (2 during shedding).

And please, do not think I don't understand or respect your financial situation. I totally do. I used to kibble feed my ferrets, and then partial kibble and partial raw, but switched to full raw because I started seeing the change the raw was making in my ferrets and their health. So far cost-wise, our basic frankenprey has run pretty much even with what we spent on kibble.

Is insulinoma a guaranteed result of kibble-feeding? No matter the quality of the kibble? It's not just the cost that's putting me back down into kibble feeding; there are a lot of other reasons, too, but I'd rather not go into all that haha. 

I was told that mixing raw meat and kibble causes a breeding ground for bacteria; is this right? 

Would Orijen, Wysong Digest Support and NV Instinct Duck and Turkey be an okay mix?

[LindaM]

Insulinoma is a result of high-carb diets. Kibbles tend to be rather high in carbohydrates, even the high-quality kibbles. Not so much as the low-end, grocery store kibbles.. but it can still end up leading to it.

If you want, you could message me in private about it, and I might be able to shed some insight from my experiences. Or if not, that's fine, no pressure of course. There are plenty of reasons people want to use kibbles, and I've honestly heard most of them and even used some myself.

Yes, it can cause a bacterial overgrowth inside the intestines. Which is why when you do for example a partial kibble and partial raw diet, you make sure to do the raw meal a few hours after having picked up the kibble bowls. But to introduce a new food, it gets a little harder, you may have to sprinkle a little ground up kibble over their meat (which is what also gets used sometimes to switch kibble eats to raw), or add a few little kibbles in their normal meal for them to get a taste.

As for a kibble mix, that should be a good blend, yes. I'm currently using that for my cat, since he's still getting the kibble mix saved up from the ferrets.

[Deleted]

I'm surprised that it would be cheaper to feed the high quality kibble. I don't know what cost is like in America, but here in Australia, one of the reasons on my list to start switching is that the kibble costs a fortune and raw should be cheaper. I'm also looking forward to less poop and smell.

[LindaM]

tanya It won't be cheaper doing high-quality kibbles, that's for sure. If I compare what I pay now when doing frankenprey diets, I'm definitely paying less than I did on kibble, or at worst, the same amount, but I'll still be saving more since I stand a better chance of skipping the vet bills that can come with kibble diets.

Raw really ends up being the best when it comes to health benefits. My two are doing amazing on their raw diet right now. I just need to get the catty switched as well.. that poor thing seems to fear raw meat or even quality cat food more than water, lol.

I've been meaning to respond to your thread too, I'll go do that now.

[Sherry]

Cost of kibble is one of the reasons I raw feed as well lol. And for some bizarre reason, Carnivora(commercial meat/bone/organ only mince) here in Calgary is actually less expensive still than whole meats.