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Post by katt on Aug 13, 2017 15:50:49 GMT -5
How much of their nightly meals are organs? If it is the entire meal then they are getting way too much. They need one and a half meals a week of organ, and one and a half meals a week of heart.
How much heart are they getting?
One method that many people find helpful and easy to track is to make a heart-organ mix that is 1/2 heart, 1/4 liver, 1/4 other organs; then offer that as 3 full meals a week.
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Post by patti49er on Aug 14, 2017 0:34:53 GMT -5
I reread my last answer. I meant to say that the meats are in the top of the freezer and we just rotate chicken, pork, beef - probably more like chicken, beef, chicken, pork, chicken, etc. We are probably doing a good job now on the meats. The struggle is the organs - for a while we couldn't find heart. Well, Butch just gave me some moose heart and liver - 3 pounds. I'm not sure we have brains anymore but we have uterus and they are good with that.
So every other night instead of meat we do organs. We were probably doing too much liver - they like it and I confused heart quantities with liver quantities.
If it's OK then your plan would be so much easier.
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Post by katt on Aug 15, 2017 23:24:41 GMT -5
Sorry for the delay. I'm on ICU right now and the schedule is nutso. Last week...thank goodness. That's awesome! Moose is a GREAT meat source - many people get moose, and they don't usually eat the heart and liver so it can be pretty easy to get the extra parts if you know anyone who hunts. Heart and Organs should be 10% of the diet EACH (1.5 meals each). The organ content should be *at least* 1/2 liver. It can be all liver, but if/whenever you have access to other organs it is much better nutritionally to give them the other-organs as half of their organ content. In TOTAL Heart+Organs should be 3 meals a week. The chart partway down this page might be a helpful visual: holisticferretforum.com/natural-diet/raw-diet-the-meat-of-the-site/basic-frankenprey-menu/Let me know if that makes sense. You can't really overdo heart other than making their poops too soft. But you CAN overdo liver as it is very high in Vitamin A. Too much especially over an extended time can cause Vitamin A Toxicity. Keep the organs to 10% of the total diet though and it will be perfect.
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Post by katt on Aug 17, 2017 22:46:09 GMT -5
Just checking in : )
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Post by patti49er on Aug 19, 2017 1:20:22 GMT -5
We seem to be doing fine. Everyone is eating when they first get their food - I don't know how much each one eats but they are all thriving. Overnight the food disappears - sometimes stashed. We have a good routine. Plenty of organs - still on the lookout for brains.
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Post by patti49er on Aug 22, 2017 1:08:49 GMT -5
The butcher at Fred Meyer gave two huge shrimp to Patrick when he explained about ferrets needing variety. So this morning they got the shrimp which they were interested in only slightly. One shrimp has been eaten a little. Is shrimp OK for them? Funny story: I was sitting with the business during the introduction to the shrimp and after D'Artagnan took a few little bites and then wandered around, I picked him up and cradled him - as usual. Then I kissed his sweet little nose and noticed my husband sort of cringe - but not in the he-could-bite-you cringe sort of way (Patrick has PTSD from their "baby" finger crushing bites.) Then I realized D'Artagnan "sweet" little mouth had just touched that shrimp and Patrick himself doesn't get kissed for quite a while after he eats shrimp. YUCK!!! My reaction at least reassured Patrick that he isn't being one-upped by D'Artagnan. So - is shrimp good for them?
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Post by katt on Aug 29, 2017 2:39:06 GMT -5
Hey, sorry for the very delayed reply. This week has been a mess with starting night shifts and then having to say goodbye to Koda. : (
Shrimp is GREAT as a treat - as is salmon, halibut, etc. : ) We even gave Koda the eggs off of the shrimp whenever we got a big local-caught fresh batch. Seafood should only be fed once a week tops though, and you may notice extra smelly poops after some types of seafood. : P
When you get a chance can you please post a formal menu in the daily am/pm meal format?
Sunday: am: pm:
Mon: am: pm:
Tues: am: pm:
Wed: am: pm:
Thurs: am: pm:
Fri: am: pm:
Sat: am: pm:
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Post by patti49er on Aug 29, 2017 3:01:27 GMT -5
So sad Koda is gone. He was such a sweetie. Thank you for sharing him. And also thanks for sharing those darling babies and the one where you are gently/firmly reminding them not to bite hard. Sunday: am: Chicken pm: Pork
Mon: am: Beef pm: Liver/Heart
Tues: am: Chicken pm: Pork
Wed: am: Beef pm: Liver/Heart
Thurs: am: Chicken pm: Pork
Fri: am:Beef pm:Liver/Heart
Sat: am: Chicken pm: Pork
And once a week an egg
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Post by katt on Aug 31, 2017 4:42:41 GMT -5
So sad Koda is gone. He was such a sweetie. Thank you for sharing him. And also thanks for sharing those darling babies and the one where you are gently/firmly reminding them not to bite hard. Sunday: am: Chicken pm: Pork Mon: am: Beef pm: Liver/Heart Tues: am: Chicken pm: Pork Wed: am: Beef pm: Liver/Heart Thurs: am: Chicken pm: Pork Fri: am:Beef pm:Liver/Heart Sat: am: Chicken pm: Pork And once a week an egg Organs and heart look good, though I'd still like to see some other-organs besides just liver in the mix when you can get them. Variety still needs work, esp in regards to bone sources. Can you please note which meals are bone-in and which are not? Also for the bone-in meals, please indicate which type of bone. E.g. Chicken wings vs chicken necks vs chicken backs etc. Are you still adding powdered bonemeal or eggshell to any of the boneless meals? If so, which one?
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Post by patti49er on Sept 5, 2017 3:29:48 GMT -5
Yes we are adding bonemeal to all boneless meals. There are pork uterius added to some of the liver meals. We didn't do a good job labeling. The liver is moose liver and chicken livers - random. Also found brains but are waiting for the next time we make a batch. We are moving to making batches that are 1/2 heart (moose or chicken), 1/4 liver, and 1/4 other. I also give them a raw egg now and then as a treat. I don't know about the chicken bones part. I'll ask Pat.
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Post by katt on Sept 7, 2017 15:05:19 GMT -5
Yes we are adding bonemeal to all boneless meals. There are pork uterius added to some of the liver meals. We didn't do a good job labeling. The liver is moose liver and chicken livers - random. Also found brains but are waiting for the next time we make a batch. We are moving to making batches that are 1/2 heart (moose or chicken), 1/4 liver, and 1/4 other. I also give them a raw egg now and then as a treat. I don't know about the chicken bones part. I'll ask Pat. Ok. Good on the heart and organs! : ) We need to work on their bone content and variety though. They really need more edible bone. Bonemeal powder is not ideal for the long run. They need the work, tooth cleaning, and gut stimulation of eating actual raw bones. They also really need more variety - 3 is the absolute minimum. New Sagaya sells whole ducks for $16-20 - that makes a lot of meals once all chopped up and can be spread out over a few months. Turkey necks and wing-tips are great. Rabbit is hit or miss in terms of finding it at New Sagaya but when you can find it that stock up. You might need to ask someone to show you where to find it. Quail is an AWESOME protein and bone source and can sometimes be found in packages in the back upright freezers at New Sagaya. Goat, lamb, and bison are all spendier but great boneless red meats that can be added her and there whenever you can find/afford it.
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Post by patti49er on Sept 9, 2017 3:05:08 GMT -5
OK. I printed this for Pat's viewing pleasure tomorrow! Thanks.
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Post by katt on Sept 15, 2017 10:43:43 GMT -5
Any updates on increasing their variety?
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Post by patti49er on Sept 28, 2017 2:28:57 GMT -5
Life continues to crush my attempts to increase variety. It's the High Holy Days, lots of birthdays, real estate is crazy, back to back meeting this week, lots of Dr. appts (that are just regular routine.) My schedule is pitiful compared to yours - still that's where I am. The babies go for their annual vet appointment tomorrow. Anything Dr. Schmidt should be looking for diet affected-wise? They are getting moose heart and liver! I am hoping Saturday starts looking better. Mazel Tov on the little one!
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Post by patti49er on Oct 1, 2017 3:45:36 GMT -5
We have a duck. Patrick cut it up - I'm not sure about the status of the head. Do we just give them the whole head to eat? Should we start pounding the meat less and letting them eat larger chunks of bone? I wasn't ready to deal with a head. Probably won't ever be ready - yet - here I am.
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