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Post by katt on Jul 1, 2017 1:36:57 GMT -5
As an added FYI, Midtown New Sagaya also carries whole (skinned, gutted, and beheaded) rabbits (upright freezers in the very back, usually th bottom shelf but sometimes in the middle), and whole ducks for very reasonable prices. These are both GREAT bone sources and GREAT variety sources. They are spendier meats, but if you have decent freezer space it is VERY const effective to purchase the whole thing (whole duck/whole rabbit) and chop it up into meal-sized portions. You can then freeze them and stretch the spendier meats out among the cheaper meats like chicken, so they aren't eating mostly-expensive meats but they are still getting awesome variety.
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Post by patti49er on Jul 1, 2017 3:20:19 GMT -5
Deep breath - OK - it is starting to make more sense. You're very patient. We'll go to New Sagayas tomorrow. Deep breath! Thanks
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Post by patti49er on Jul 2, 2017 21:14:23 GMT -5
We went on a "shopping spree". Didn't find any hearts!!! We did buy: - pork brains
- pork liver
- beef tripe
- uteries
- beef marrow gut
So now I just reread the instructions and that means they should get one of these for one meal a week? Back to the hunt for heart. Mine are free roam. Any ideas on how to create a space where they will eat the food and not go stash it in an unauthorized location. Like their bed. Or mine.
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Post by katt on Jul 4, 2017 0:43:27 GMT -5
Their TOTAL organ content (liver + other) should make up one-and-a-half meals each week. HALF of the organs should be liver. An easy way to do it is make a batch of organ slop that is 1/2 liver, 1/2 other organs, and then feed that for 1.5 meals every week. Beef marrow gut is very similar to tripe - if it is white, it has been bleached and is nutritionally worthless. :/ The brains and uteries are fantastic though! Any other proteins and bone-in meats? Quail, duck, rabbit?
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Post by patti49er on Jul 4, 2017 1:57:16 GMT -5
They didn't touch the brains. Yuck. Maybe we should go the soup route. I don't think we are ready for rabbit bones - they won't even do the chicken bones. Will try again tomorrow. Are you sure brains are a good idea. What about prions - isn't that a danger?
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Post by patti49er on Jul 5, 2017 2:32:48 GMT -5
What about a raw egg? Is that good for them?
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Post by katt on Jul 5, 2017 22:18:34 GMT -5
They didn't touch the brains. Yuck. Maybe we should go the soup route. I don't think we are ready for rabbit bones - they won't even do the chicken bones. Will try again tomorrow. Are you sure brains are a good idea. What about prions - isn't that a danger? Nope, prions are not a concern in pork brains. Brains are super nutritious and awesome to include as part of their organs. You can certainly do organ soup - a lot of people prefer that for organs because it's a little easier. I am lazy and prefer less prep work so I'd rather take the extra time/effort to get them to eat each new organ meat. Either way is perfectly fine. Egg is fantastic. They should be offered whole whisked egg (preferable) or yolks only. Whites alone can cause a biotin deficiency due to their high avidin content, but yolks are one of nature's richest sources of biotin and more than make up for the avidin in the whites. Whole eggs are nature's perfect little nutrient package. You can offer them in the shell for fun too, but mine never figured out how to break them open. Eggs are also great for preventing hairballs during shedding season. The rule of thumb is one egg per ferret per week, but during shedding you can offer 2-3 per ferret per week as long as they don't get loose stools. I forgot to answer your stashing Q. A feeding den is your best bet. It will significantly reduce stashing. Super inexpensive and easy to make - use a solid colored (dark inside) Rubbermaid bin and cut a hole(s) in one side. You can use shower hooks to anchor the den so they can't move it around, and as they get to eating larger chunks you can use shower hooks inside the den so they can't drag the meat off as easily and have to work harder to rip and tear their food (healthy mental and physical exercise). This will not eliminate stashing, but should reduce it significantly.
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Post by katt on Jul 5, 2017 22:18:57 GMT -5
What are you doing right now to get them to eat bones?
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Post by katt on Jul 15, 2017 22:37:21 GMT -5
Checking in.
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Post by katt on Jul 22, 2017 15:33:26 GMT -5
Please post an update.
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Post by patti49er on Jul 23, 2017 3:49:26 GMT -5
So sorry! We have found a supply of hearts! They didn't eat it all but I think we gave them way too much. I had to fork feed Havoc and Karma. That part is going great. Pat is chopping the bones a lot more and they eat it all. Food stashing is pretty minimal right now. They have a box to eat in. We are working on variety. Their coats are beautiful. I'm not used to summer coats looking so full and sleek. Of course, I am totally in love with them and biased but still! Can't wait for winter to see those coats.
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Post by katt on Jul 24, 2017 1:29:15 GMT -5
Fantastic! Keep it up with the bones! As they get used to chewing you will be able to smash them less and less. How are the organs going? Raw fed coats really are amazing. What is your current menu like?
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Post by patti49er on Jul 25, 2017 3:07:13 GMT -5
So far we are just glad they are eating the bones and Pat makes a huge batch so they are still chewing pretty mashed bones. When he gets the quail I think we should keep the mashed similar to keep the difference to a minimum. Next batch after that I'll ask him to mash less. I asked Butch to give me a moose heart for the babes when he goes hunting in October. I don't know how large that is - might be a problem? Is moose OK? (I wrote wild moose and then deleted wild. They're all wild sort of LOL. I think of them more like cows.) Here's what Pat does - he takes one bag from the back and one from the front. One will be chicken and the other random other. I told him only two meals a week that are not meat and bones but I'm not sure he can tell. Next batch he can mark them. They like liver. Not so keen on hearts - I fork feed that sometimes. I'm not sure where we are on other organs. We tried the tripe but I guess that's not so good for them so we are willing to give up on that. Brains were hard - they wouldn't touch it. We haven't tried the soup think with brains... Should that be pure brains or mix something else with it?
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Post by katt on Jul 27, 2017 23:32:36 GMT -5
moose is wonderful for them! An entire heart is a bit much for one meal - but that is easily remedied by chopping it up. Nothing wrong with offering it whole, but a lot will get wasted bc it will be more than what they can eat in a day. Moose liver and kidneys are also great btw. I also give the boys muscle meat scraps - the trimmings from butchering. Same goes for Caribou. Ok we really need to get them on a more consistent menu to ensure they are gettting the appropriate balance. This is super duper important. They need 1.5 meals a week of heart, 1.5 meals a week of organs (1/2 liver, 1/2 other), and 7-9 meals a week with significant edible bone. It is best to pick a consistent day to offer hearts, and to offer organs, so that you know they are always getting them. Our menu outline is an example of how your weekly menu should look - but you can pick a different day(s) for hearts/organs. holisticferretforum.com/natural-diet/raw-diet-the-meat-of-the-site/basic-frankenprey-menu/Blending the brains in a small amount into soup with something else they like will be your best bet. Have you guys tried straight liver yet? How did those each go? Hearts and organs are more strongly flavored than muscle meat so it can take a bit longer to get them to accept them - that is normal. Remember the time you accidentally added too much liver to their soup? Perfect example - and now we aren't diluting it at all. It is super important to stick with it though as hearts and organs are absolutely critical parts of their diet. What other bones and proteins are you guys offering right now?
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Post by patti49er on Jul 28, 2017 3:19:23 GMT -5
They LOVE liver now - they've been eating it fine for a while. It's the hearts they eat slow and no brains. I will talk to Pat in the afternoon about the menu. They are eating chicken, pork, and beef rotating. Only bones are in the chicken. We need to up our game! I printed the menu and will use that as a frame of reference. I think we should try to find whole rabbit and make soup out of that mixed with brains. Then chop the rest of the rabbit like the chicken. That will be a huge step for us. Then you can do more tweaking with us. Thanks!!!!!
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