|
Post by patti49er on Apr 12, 2017 2:55:00 GMT -5
Now that the two seders are over we have some time to work on new proteins tomorrow. They didn't eat the hearts on Monday. What are your tricks? I guess they like liver and just put up with the hearts when it was mixed in? I read on someones facebook post that they gave their ferrets chicken jerky. Is that OK?
|
|
|
Post by katt on Apr 13, 2017 1:00:10 GMT -5
Chicken jerky is ok for a treat only. It must be NON-seasoned of course, preferably non-preserved also (homemade is best).
For the hearts, I have plenty of tricks but let's start with the easy one - mix the slivers of hearts into the muscle meals. Work on hand feeding them each a few heart slivers each day. This will be the same approach as with introducing new proteins. You mix a few of the new protein slivers into their chicken. You may need to hand/spoon feed some pieces. Start with just a few pieces of the heart and/or new protein, an gradually increase the mount each day. If they will take that meat without any trouble like they did with liver - GREAT! (Skipping steps is always nice) Otherwise no worries, we will continue to work on it gradually. Each meal (or couple of meals if they are moving slowly), gradually increase the heart and new protein, and decrease the chicken.
Note: as we get up to a certain level of hearts, we will need to reduce the frequency of their heart meals or they will have rather icky poops.
How are their poops doing so far btw? Do you know how to adjust their calcium based on their poops?
|
|
|
Post by patti49er on Apr 13, 2017 19:36:46 GMT -5
Well Katt Rall it took a few seconds, well maybe two seconds, but they finally got used to eating pork! I think they need more egg shells. I don't think I'm doing it right. Do you just sprinkle it over the chunks? How small are the pieces - almost powder?
|
|
|
Post by katt on Apr 14, 2017 23:08:26 GMT -5
Woot - Congrats! Pork can now be added to their rotation. We need to get them taking hearts the same way - keep at it. Try mixing the heart slivers with their chicken (or pork) slivers, and coaxing them to try some with a little hand feeding. If they like salmon oil that can be a little extra incentive also. I'd like to get them taking their hearts, and work on your menu a bit. You can continue to add new proteins, but I'd rather focus your energy on the heart first because that will make things more straightforward as we move towards the next stages. In the meanwhile, I want you to start working on an early menu. Right now all it will have is chicken, pork, liver, and hearts - this will look nothing like your final menu. When you get a chance, use our menu outline to create your own menu using what you are currently feeding and post it in this thread. Don't worry if it isn't perfect - we are going to work on it. For the eggshells, they should be dried and completely powdered. A bullet blender or coffee grinder works well for this. They need 1/2-3/4 tsp of POWDERED eggshells to every 10oz of meat they get. This is super duper important. You can judge how much calcium they need by their poops - dry, hard, or chalky stools are a sign of too much calcium (eggshell, bone), soft stools typically mean they need more. Raw fed poops wil be much smaller and will typically be more moist than kibble poops, but OTHER than heart and organ days (which cause dark, loose stools), they should not be so soft as to be unformed. Think toothpaste or slightly thicker. As they get to eating bones and various other proteins, you will start to also notice that their poops will look very different depending on what they eat.
|
|
|
Post by patti49er on Apr 17, 2017 13:02:32 GMT -5
OK - thanks for staying with me! Renee brought over lamb for their birthday party and they ate it. It may be they will eat anything. I'll write up the menu later today. Thanks again!
|
|
|
Post by patti49er on Apr 17, 2017 17:14:23 GMT -5
Patrick just gave them turkey and they loved it. Now he wants to know if he can give them the turkey neck?
|
|
|
Post by katt on Apr 17, 2017 22:43:26 GMT -5
haha GREAT! Two more proteins to add to the mix! Yes, you can give them the turkey neck. They may or may not go for the bones right away (I would smash it up for them), but at the rate they are going nothing would surprise me. Next stops: - ensuring they will actually eat their hearts (are they still giving you trouble there?) - bones - adding other organs - and of course, continuing to increase their chunk size When you have a chance, grab a pack of chicken wings. Have Patrick chop them up into chunks about the size of the chunks of meat they are eating now. The bones should either be well smashed, or cut big enough that they are forced to chew. Usually I have people start out by smashing a few wings up suuuuper well (think totally mangled), and then cutting the pulpy mass into chunks the size that they will eat. You may (or may not with how well yours are doing) need to finger feed some little marrow bits to entice them to try the new crunchy texture. Once they will eat the smashed up bones, you can smash them less and let them start learning to chew the bones. The big thing is we need to be sure that all of them will actually EAT the bones (vs just gnawing the meat off). They have had a good amount of time working on their chunks to start building up their jaw strength, but they will have to work those muscles a little more now with bone. Which sis of course, super good for their jaw and dental health. It can take some ferrets a little bit of practice at first though. Give it a shot and let me know how they do! They are doing wonderfully! I'm so glad they are really making this pretty easy on you (and me)!
|
|
|
Post by patti49er on Apr 18, 2017 1:02:28 GMT -5
OK we will try the wings. But they still have two turkeys to finish! Thanks for all your help!!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by katt on Apr 22, 2017 17:03:19 GMT -5
Checking in. Have you given bones a shot yet? How is the heart going? Also - menu?
|
|
|
Post by patti49er on Apr 23, 2017 0:26:45 GMT -5
Patrick smashed up their first chicken wing and gave it to them overnight in their bedroom (AKA my master bath) unbeknownst to me. It was all gone in the morning. No finger feeding. No drama. I think there's something wrong with them! How's this for the Menu: Sat am: Pork Sat pm: Hearts & Liver Sun am: Turkey Sun pm: Chicken Mon am: Pork Mon pm: Hearts Tues am: Turkey Tues pm: Chicken Wed am: Pork Wed pm: Liver Thur am: Turkey Thur pm: Chicken Fri am: Pork Fri pm: Turkey Do we really need to rotate the meats (turkey, chicken, pork) or can we just get one at random?
|
|
|
Post by katt on Apr 23, 2017 16:29:05 GMT -5
Patrick smashed up their first chicken wing and gave it to them overnight in their bedroom (AKA my master bath) unbeknownst to me. It was all gone in the morning. No finger feeding. No drama. I think there's something wrong with them! How's this for the Menu: Sat am: Pork Sat pm: Hearts & Liver Sun am: Turkey Sun pm: Chicken Mon am: Pork Mon pm: Hearts Tues am: Turkey Tues pm: Chicken Wed am: Pork Wed pm: Liver Thur am: Turkey Thur pm: Chicken Fri am: Pork Fri pm: Turkey Do we really need to rotate the meats (turkey, chicken, pork) or can we just get one at random? You know, there just might be! RE your question the answer is yes. They need a constant variety. And 3 proteins is just the absolute bare minimum - the MORE variety the better. They should ideally have *at least* one red meat (beef, goat, lamb, moose, caribou), and *at least* 2 different sources of good edible bones (or their diet will become far too chicken heavy). Variety is super super important to ensure that they are getting a full, wide spectrum of vitamins, nutrients, and micro-nutrients. Think of it like how you can't just eat carrots as your only vegetable all the time - you need variety to make sure you get all of the nutrients you need, so you should also eat broccoli, spinach, tomatoes, etc etc. The same goes for ferrets, they need a wide variety of different proteins to ensure that all of their nutritional needs are met. The easiest way to offer a lot of variety without breaking the bank, is to buy in bulk and prep all of their meals and put them into little ziplock bags (some people use plastic containers but I find those to be less space efficient - but whatever works best for you is fine), and freeze them. That is also nice by reducing the amount of prep work you have to do each day. Instead of prepping meals each week, you can do one big prep every few months and then just thaw out their meals each day. I usually prep once every 4-6mo, and stock my freezer. It is helpful to have some basic, inexpensive meats (like chicken and pork), and then rotate/spread out the more expensive meats. For example I buy one rabbit and one duck, and stretch those out over a few months. Keep in mind that the menu is a framework too, and not set in stone. Part of my job is to help make sure you feel comfortable adjusting it as you go/as needed. Your menu is off to a great start! You have 1.5 meals each of heart and organ, which is perfect. The next items on the agenda are: - get them all eating bones and incorporate the bony meals into their balanced menu - add more variety - I would suggest beef (or a different red meat of your choosing) next - add some other organs For variety AND organs this is where you want to go check out Midtown New Sagaya. At the very back of the store they have all of their meats (far back left-hand side of the store, but far right-hand side of the fridge section, just past the fish and lobster tanks). This is where you are going to find your good variety and organs. It can be hit or miss depending on what they have in stock, so when I see good stuff I stock up on it. They typically have most of the goodies our in the open-fridge basins. Then in the upright freezers you can find some additional goodies like rabbit, quail, goat chunks, frog legs, alligator, and pheasant (spendy though, I raaarely get pheasant). Some things to look for at New Sagaya include: Organs: - pork liver (variety in their organs is good to have whenever possible, so it is nice to have more than just chicken liver) - pork kidneys - pork brains - pork uterus - beef tongue (a muscle, but a great source of taurine) - beef kidney - spleen, pancreas, and testicles are also really good if you see them, but I have yet to find those Bone-in Meats: - duck (awesome bone-in meals) - rabbit (awesome bone-in meals) - black silky hen - quail - frog legs Anything else that you see that is unprocessed, unseasoned, unpreserved raw meat is great too! Their total organ content is 10% of the diet (1.5 meals as you have in your menu), of which *at least* half should be liver. However, whenever possible, half of the organ content should be OTHER organs. This includes kidneys (often the easiest to find), brain (very nutritious but also very rich, so careful about feeding too much at once, shoot for 1/4 of the meal or less of brain), uterus, testicles, spleen, and pancreas.
|
|
|
Post by patti49er on Apr 23, 2017 16:31:09 GMT -5
I watched Havoc chewing his food this morning (no bones) and I'm reminded why we have to go slow. He was chewing fine and looked like he enjoys it a lot but it does take some effort. He is definitely building up those jaw muscles. (I wrote this before I read your response so know that it is just random musing!)
|
|
|
Post by katt on Apr 23, 2017 16:56:47 GMT -5
It does take some time to build up those muscles, but they are doing wonderfully. And certainly shouldn't stop you from moving to bones - just be sure to watch and make sure that ALL of them are indeed chomping on and eating bones. Watch their poops - if someone has softer poops than the others, they may be chewing the bones without actually eating them.
|
|
|
Post by katt on May 6, 2017 14:05:34 GMT -5
Any updates? Have you given bone a shot yet? We really need to get them started on bones here soon. Eggshells are only sufficient for a short-term calcium source.
|
|
|
Post by patti49er on May 12, 2017 22:56:39 GMT -5
We have given them mangled chicken bones and they liked it. Unfortunately we have this ton of meat already cut up. Ideas? I bought bone meal at Natural Pantry and we're using that now instead of the egg shells. It's: KAL Bone Meal Powder (Bar Code 21245 13429) Is that better (or OK) to use?
|
|