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Post by katt on Mar 24, 2017 15:15:49 GMT -5
Sorry! We are back. We will make another batch tomorrow. So we should make it as usual but keep out slivers or heart and liver? Or do we feed them extra slivers? I'm back now too! Before you make the new batch, offer them some liver and heart slivers and see what they think. If they will eat them, you can leave them out and we will work on some meal planning for those. Otherwise make the usual balanced soup, and keep some extra liver and heart on hand to work on slivers. We are entering the stage with a lot of gradual changes as we move them onto slivers (and eventually chunks), so you might want to make smaller batches of soup at a time to allow for more adjustments as we go.
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Post by patti49er on Mar 24, 2017 15:51:07 GMT -5
Well isn't that life? Always changing! We had to make a large batch because the cook is going to Copper River next week. I'll work with them and the slivers and then when Patrick's back we can go to the next level. This morning when I came downstairs only three of the four showed up. I took the three and then asked Patrick to go get Athos (who bites!) and bring him down. Well, Athos was drunk with food asleep and Patrick was able to carry him without any drama. We may be onto something LOL.
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Post by katt on Mar 24, 2017 16:26:09 GMT -5
Well isn't that life? Always changing! We had to make a large batch because the cook is going to Copper River next week. I'll work with them and the slivers and then when Patrick's back we can go to the next level. This morning when I came downstairs only three of the four showed up. I took the three and then asked Patrick to go get Athos (who bites!) and bring him down. Well, Athos was drunk with food asleep and Patrick was able to carry him without any drama. We may be onto something LOL. Too funny! Food comas for bite training....you may be on to something here're indeed...! Before Patrick leaves perhaps you can convince him to chop up a bunch of liver, heart, and chicken meat slivers so we can work on those while he's away?
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Post by katt on Mar 26, 2017 21:35:32 GMT -5
Checking in - what did they think of the slivers?
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Post by katt on Mar 29, 2017 1:16:04 GMT -5
Any updates?
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Post by katt on Mar 30, 2017 23:53:02 GMT -5
Have you tried the slivers?
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Post by patti49er on Apr 1, 2017 19:56:08 GMT -5
OK we have tried the heart and liver slivers. I put them on the end of a fork and was very worried those babies were going to swallow the fork or make off with it and the sliver. What was that all about? They LOVE it. I thought there would be a lot of drama?!!!! I made them stop eating after a while because I don't know how many slivers were OK for them to eat. So we are good on slivers; no we are great on eating slivers!
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Post by katt on Apr 1, 2017 20:32:45 GMT -5
HAHAHA Awesome!! OMG. They are so funny. I'm glad they are taking to it so easily. SO since they love the heart and liver so much we have 2 tasks to tackle next. 1.) Starting a Menu 2.) Introducing new proteins Menu: See our basic menu outline here: holisticferretforum.com/natural-diet/raw-diet-the-meat-of-the-site/basic-frankenprey-menu/Monday am: edible bone in meat Monday pm: edible bone in meat (or muscle)** Tuesday am: edible bone in meat Tuesday pm: muscle meat Wednesday am: edible bone in meat Wednesday pm: heart Thursday am: edible bone in meat Thursday pm: edible bone in meat (or muscle)** Friday am: edible bone in meat Friday pm: ½ heart + ¼ liver + ¼ other organ Saturday am: edible bone in meat Saturday pm: muscle meat Sunday am: edible bone in meat Sunday pm: ½ liver + ½ other organ Instead of including the organs and heart in their soup, we will now work on splitting it into separate meals. They need 1.5 meals each of heart and organs (right now their organ content is just liver, but we will work on that). So one meal a week is heart, one meal a week is liver, and one meal a week is half heart, half liver. I would recommend spreading those meals out over the week as in the example menu outline above. Be warned that on heart and organ days they will have soft, dark, tarry stools due to the high blood content of the organ meat. This is totally normal. The rest of their meals will be chicken slivers. Work on gradually increasing the size of the slivers every few days. If you get to a size that they resist, stay there a while and let them get used to chewing that size before moving up in size again. Keep in mind that until we get to introducing bones, they still need to be getting 1/2 - 3/4 tsp of bonemeal poweder or powdered eggshell for each 10oz of meat they get. New ProteinsWe need to start introducing new proteins into their diet. During the sliver stage is a great time to do this because you can mix new proteins into the chicken they already like to disguise it. Any other meat will work; I usually try to save beef for a little later because it has a stronger taste and can take more work to get them to eat it. But your kiddos are doing so well they may jsut keep proving me wrong and take right to it! Pork is a good second protein to introduce because it has a nice mild flavor, though I'm not sure if you guys are willing to work with pork? Turkey is super easy to find. So I would suggest pork, turkey, or beef as your next protein. Which one you decide on doesn't really matter. Get some and slice it up with the chicken and see what they think. If they balk at it let me know - I have plenty of tricks up my sleeve! For future reference: Midtown New Sagaya has duck and sometimes rabbit (in the freezers in the back between the meat and fish sections) and goat. They might have quail but I had trouble finding quail consistently there. Honestly the more expensive proteins are better saved for introducing once we get them starting to crunch on bones simply because otherwise poor hubby will have to strip the meat off of the bones to add it as slivers instead of just portioning out the whole duck or rabbit with bones kept in. lol So In Summary the next steps are: - Give 1 meal of heart a week - Give 1 meal of liver a week - Give 1 meal that is half heart, half liver a week - For the remaining 11 meals, offer chicken sliver and start to mix in a new protein - As long as they keep eating the slivers well, increase the sliver size a little at a time Keep up the AWESOME work!
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Post by patti49er on Apr 2, 2017 23:15:00 GMT -5
New concern. There are four of them - free roam in my bedroom/bathroom. I just leave their food out and it disappears. How do I know everyone is eating the right amount? Even when they're hungry they might run over to the food and then go play before they really eat.
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Post by katt on Apr 3, 2017 2:09:10 GMT -5
New concern. There are four of them - free roam in my bedroom/bathroom. I just leave their food out and it disappears. How do I know everyone is eating the right amount? Even when they're hungry they might run over to the food and then go play before they really eat. During the switching process it is best to watch them during any changes (e.g. introducing a new protein - make sure all 4 will eat it by supervising and doing hand feeds until they accept it and will eat it without being hand fed). Each new change we want to make sure that EACH ferret is accepting the new meat or texture before moving forward. The best way to do this is observe them eating. Sitting with them in your lap or a bathroom where they can't run off may be helpful. Once you know they are each eating something, then you can move to the normal routine with less direct observation. But this is also why weekly weights are important. If they are dropping weight then we may need to re-evaluate and make sure that they are eating enough. Spring time is tricky bc they will be shedding their winter flub and losing weight normally. That's part of why we usually also ask for weekly or so photo updates. Their build combined with their weights gives a better idea. If they are losing weight but look healthy, with parallel sides when held dangling and no sunken hips, then I'm not worried. If they are losing weight and starting to look a bit gaunt then we worry and backtrack a few steps until we are sure they are eating properly, and then gradually move forward again and a slower pace.
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Post by katt on Apr 6, 2017 1:57:02 GMT -5
Checking in. Does my last post make sense? I'd like to work on getting them taking their heart and organ meals separately. Try offering a dish of just liver or just heart and seeing what they think. If they aren't convinced, you can hand/spoon feed some slivers but it sounds like they already took right to them. Make sure to watch and see if all 4 are eating it. Let me know how it goes.
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Post by patti49er on Apr 6, 2017 16:01:35 GMT -5
Yes. Makes sense. I haven't done the weighing (but they are fine.) The scale is too small. I'll try something and if that doesn't work get a larger scale. They do all eat - the babies eat so much more. But they are so much bigger and more active.
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Post by patti49er on Apr 7, 2017 3:36:28 GMT -5
I figured the weighing out. Put a bowl on the scale and tare it. Then interpolate the wildly swinging numbers as the somewhat amused/baffled/miffed ferret rotates in the bowl. Piece of cake. Athos: 3.28 lb D'Artagnan: 3.48 lb Karma: 1.7 lb Havoc: 1.93 lb
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Post by patti49er on Apr 8, 2017 3:18:59 GMT -5
As I sit here feeding Karma heart and liver slivers from a fork at midnight I was reflecting on what has become a common refrain from my much suffering husband. Such as: When we gave up on having a bed frame and instead the box springs and mattress sit on the floor (for a multitude of ferret reasons) and he said, "Are we really doing this for the ferrets?" When I decided to close off the driveway onto Abbott Rd by filling in a 8 foot long and 15 foot high berm and he said as he started moving hundreds of wheel barrels of dirt, "Are we really doing this because of the ferrets!?" When he had to operate a huge trencher that took two men to load on the rented trailer so I could bury corex signs as underground ferret barriers around the perimeter of the outdoor ferret playground he said, "Really? We're doing this just for the ferrets?" When he saw me gingerly taking raw chicken and putting it in the blender, just before he took over, he said to our daughters, "You know she wouldn't do this for us!" So true LOL
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Post by katt on Apr 9, 2017 20:04:37 GMT -5
As I sit here feeding Karma heart and liver slivers from a fork at midnight I was reflecting on what has become a common refrain from my much suffering husband. Such as: When we gave up on having a bed frame and instead the box springs and mattress sit on the floor (for a multitude of ferret reasons) and he said, "Are we really doing this for the ferrets?" When I decided to close off the driveway onto Abbott Rd by filling in a 8 foot long and 15 foot high berm and he said as he started moving hundreds of wheel barrels of dirt, "Are we really doing this because of the ferrets!?" When he had to operate a huge trencher that took two men to load on the rented trailer so I could bury corex signs as underground ferret barriers around the perimeter of the outdoor ferret playground he said, "Really? We're doing this just for the ferrets?" When he saw me gingerly taking raw chicken and putting it in the blender, just before he took over, he said to our daughters, "You know she wouldn't do this for us!" So true LOL I've done a lot of things I never thought I would do all for them too. Since they are all taking to heart and liver without issues, for heart and liver meals I would like you to follow the menu outline that I mentioned above - it doesn't have to be on those exact days, but they should get 1.5 meals of each. For the rest of the meals leave the hearts and organs out of the blend, and let's focus on increasing their sliver/chunk size and introducing a new protein. Let me know when you get a new protein (and what it is). You'll want to chop/blend the new protein in with some chicken and see what they think of it. Hopefully they take it in stride like they have with everything else so far!
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