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Post by katt on Oct 1, 2017 23:54:29 GMT -5
As we discussed in chat duck is GREAT and the head is full of all sorts of yummy nutrients - it just needs to be cracked open for them. No, there shouldn't be anything at all health-wise RE the vet. But not all vets are raw friendly so if you bring up diet you may get all sorts of scare tactics thrown around...stand your ground. A balanced and varied raw diet is what they are biologically built to eat. : )
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Post by patti49er on Oct 2, 2017 3:33:12 GMT -5
Their vet turned out to be very supportive. She says they are thriving and big with a lot of muscle. D'Artagnan has a tiny bit of tarter but Athos is perfect. She doesn't want them to gain any more weight though. They are doing the winter bulk up so I think they are fine.
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Post by katt on Oct 22, 2017 1:14:23 GMT -5
How did they like the duck?
We need to get your menu a bit more ironed out - you are pretty close to being officially ready to graduate! : ) Can you post an updated weekly menu when you get a chance?
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Post by patti49er on Nov 16, 2017 2:54:49 GMT -5
Not ready to graduate! Sometimes their poop is black, tarry/sticky. What does that mean?
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Post by katt on Dec 3, 2017 20:55:13 GMT -5
Wow sorry I missed that you had replied. You are much closer to being ready than you think. I'd still like to see a weekly menu regardless so we can work on balance please. The dark poops are very common after organ and heart meals. This is due to the higher blood content of those meats.
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Post by patti49er on Dec 4, 2017 4:10:29 GMT -5
Thanks! I thought that was what the dark poops meant. I am always amazed at what you accomplish. If I needed an answer I know how to find you lol. Here's what Pat does. He puts six small bags of meals in a large ziplock bag. One of the bags is heart and lungs. The other five are chicken, turkey, beef (not in bone), duck, and pork (not in bone.) The last bag we use is the heart and lungs which we can easily distinguish. So if we gave no bone we make sure the next meal is bone. He puts the bone meal in the beef and pork. Otherwise, which one they get is totally random. They get a new bag in the morning and at night. Do you think that's good enough? After they are in the bag it's hard to tell them apart except I can tell bone from boneless. It's an easy system!
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Post by katt on Dec 7, 2017 2:14:59 GMT -5
Thanks! I thought that was what the dark poops meant. I am always amazed at what you accomplish. If I needed an answer I know how to find you lol. Here's what Pat does. He puts six small bags of meals in a large ziplock bag. One of the bags is heart and lungs. The other five are chicken, turkey, beef (not in bone), duck, and pork (not in bone.) The last bag we use is the heart and lungs which we can easily distinguish. So if we gave no bone we make sure the next meal is bone. He puts the bone meal in the beef and pork. Otherwise, which one they get is totally random. They get a new bag in the morning and at night. Do you think that's good enough? After they are in the bag it's hard to tell them apart except I can tell bone from boneless. It's an easy system! 1) Where is their liver? Each week they should have 1.5 meals of heart and 1.5 meals of organs - of which at LEAST 1/2 must be liver. 2) If there are 6 bags, what do they get the 7th day? 3) If 6 bags is lasting a full week, your ratios are off. And that explains the dark stools too. Two 1/2 bags of heart = 1 full bag, out of 6 bags that = 17% of their diet. So with 2 bags of 1/2 heart 1/2 lung, they are getting far too much heart and organ. From the sounds of it they are getting 17% of their diet heart, and 17% organs - this is too much. They should get 10% heart and 10% organs. And again, the organ should be 1/2 or more comprised of liver. - Lung is a gray area and sort of straddles organ and muscle - it's not really considered a secreting organ for diet purposes. It is GREAT to feed but should be a minority of the organ content. Right now it sounds like it is alll of their organ content. To review, every week they need 10% of their diet to be heart, 10% of their diet to be organ of which half or more is liver. On a 2 meal per day system this means every week they get 1.5 meals of heart, 1.5 meals of organ per week. Then they need 7-9 bone-in meals each week. If you want to do the small bags in a large bag system that is fine, but I would very strongly encourage you to put 14 small bags into each large bag so you can separate your meals properly and give them the appropriate ratios more easily. So in one large bag, you should have 14 small bags, which should consist of: 1 bag hearts 1 bag organs (half or ALL liver) 1 bag that is 1/2 hearts, 1/2 organs 7-9 bags of bony meats 2-4 bags of boneless muscle meats [to make your organs even easier to track, I would recommend the full-bag of organs to be all liver, and then the bag that's 1/2 heart 1/2 organs you can use for the non-liver organs like kidneys, brains, and lung] Does that make sense?
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Post by patti49er on Dec 7, 2017 4:08:21 GMT -5
OMG. I meant hearts and liver. I don't have lungs. They get a bag in the morning and a bag at night. When they are finished with the large bag - the 4th day - we get another large bag with the 6 choices. So over a week that would put the ratios off a little for the organs. I often catch Patrick feeding them three times a day. He claims they are hungry. I point out they are FAT. He says it doesn't matter; they are hungry. I'll talk to him about the 14 bags but it makes it harder to feed randomly. And if he is adding other organs. They only have the dark sticky poops after eating the hearts and liver. See - I'm not ready. But I am so much better than when we started. Then the kitchen looked like a scene from Dexter.
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Post by katt on Dec 7, 2017 10:58:15 GMT -5
If they are eating everything and getting hungry between meals they aren't getting enough food. With very rare exceptions raw fed ferrets will not over eat. They are generally very good at self regulating; it's normal for them to be pretty chunky in the winter, esp their first 2 winters. The general rule is they should be fed enough at each meal that by the next meal there are a few bites leftover. This way waste is minimized but you know they got their fill. I would recommend weighing everything they eat for a week or so to get an better feel for how much they are eating so you guys know how much to weigh out for each meal sized bag.
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Post by katt on Jan 30, 2018 0:42:47 GMT -5
How is the menu coming?
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Post by patti49er on May 22, 2018 4:23:10 GMT -5
I adopted Athos and D'Artagnan's sister (named her Winter - should have named her Spitfire)two weeks ago. They are all now 2 years old. Her breeder tried to make me promise to keep her on kibble but I said she could choose. Well guess what? She immediately ate their food as if she had always eaten raw. What about imprinting on her food or building up her jaw muscles or not liking bones or liver?! But I am very much relieved. None of the gang even looked at her kibble. Peer pressure works wonders!
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Post by katt on May 22, 2018 10:23:26 GMT -5
I adopted Athos and D'Artagnan's sister (named her Winter - should have named her Spitfire)two weeks ago. They are all now 2 years old. Her breeder tried to make me promise to keep her on kibble but I said she could choose. Well guess what? She immediately ate their food as if she had always eaten raw. What about imprinting on her food or building up her jaw muscles or not liking bones or liver?! But I am very much relieved. None of the gang even looked at her kibble. Peer pressure works wonders! That’s awesome!! I’m glad she took right to it! Every ferret is so different and peer pressure definitely can be a huge help. What are you guys doing for a basic weekly menu/rotation right now?
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