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Post by shilohismygirl on Jun 3, 2011 16:13:13 GMT -5
Hi, all. Since about February, my hubby and I have been living in my father in law's house with my FIL and my sister in law. Now, my sister in law has a rat. A beautiful rat named Happy. But, she hasn't taken care of him well and I really have had all I can take of seeing another animal being taken care of so horribly when I feel like every pet should live as much like a king or queen as possible. I don't rightly know a lot or anything about rat care-but I know that she is not doing a good job. How? She leaves for days on end with nobody to care for him and sometimes I go in her room and see that he hasn't had food or water so I feed him the crappy stuff she has for him simply because I am ignorant of what else to do! I have done enough research to know that rats need a billion times bigger cage than he has, that they shouldn't be bedded with cedar like he has for bedding and that they need a companion-he has none and his so called 'mom' doesn't give him the companionship. I really try to be there for him-I go into her room and spend time with him, pet him, and talk to him and hold him everyday. He has no hammies, no toys, nothing to speak of except his dirty cage she never cleans, a food bowl and a water bottle which unless I intervene, she often leaves empty. Actually, he does have ONE toy. I gave it to him awhile back-it's a bell that hangs in his tiny cage that he rings constantly out of boredom. Poor boy! I can't stand to see him living like a pauper when our ferrets live like royalty when I know I could do so much better for him if she handed him over to me. However, she tells me that what she does is acceptable and I know it isn't. What do I do? How do I ask her if I can have him without making her upset? I'm willing to pay for him but I think it might be where she is going to hold onto him for dear life even though she knows he'd be better somewhere else. Depending on how I travel to Arizona I may have to rehome him assuming she did let me have him, but I'd rather him be with a good home than with a selfish 18 year old that doesn't make time for the truly important things, if I can't keep him myself. Her father, because she is 18 will not intervene but has said that he does not want Happy to end up dead at least, and did say that if we left and Happy went with us, he would tell her he didn't know what happened. But, that's months away and I can't stand to see this sweety go through much more of this. So, does anyone have any advice on this? Also, for Candice or anyone else with rat experience, what are the basics of rat care and is there a forum I could visit to learn the more extensive stuff? I really care for this boy, and I am going to try as hard as I can to really fight to get him better living situation either with me if I can or with another rat knowledgeable person. Honestly, if I knew of anyone in the area, I'd give him away while she was gone and tell her he escaped. I know that's dirty, but it's a lot less so than mistreating and neglecting a living, loving pet.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2011 17:09:04 GMT -5
The poor boy! I hope you can figure something out for him...a rat forum that was recommended to me when I started keeping mine is www.goosemoose.com/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,118/forum,rat, they seem knowledgeable and friendly there but I've only lurked. What kind of cage is he in now? First thing I would do is swap out the bedding, if she's dead set on using wood shavings you could probably at least switch to aspen without her noticing a difference, a huge bag at petco is around $12 here and even though it's still a little dusty at least there wouldn't be any essential oils contributing to respiratory illness. Cardboard items (boxes, tubes, etc) are free and safe for them to hide in and chew on and rip up, so you could place those in the cage for enrichment, as well as branches to climb on and chew. Softwoods (cedar, pine, fir, etc) are toxic but hardwoods are fine, mine have some willow and apple wood chews they like to nibble on. I also put scrap flannel into cardboard boxes, they like to burrow and sleep in it. My girls love their wheel, but I've heard they're hit or miss with rats, especially if they're older and never had one, and one big enough for an adult male would be spendy. I feel bad for him being alone...is he well mannered enough to ride around on your should as you take care of things around the house? If you don't use herb/pesticides, you could also bring in a handful of long grass blades, my guys like to stash it in their box and enjoy the sweet smell. Cooked bones are good too, the way rats gnaw they powder them, so you don't have to worry about splintering like with the ferrets, when I cook up chicken I'll leave one leg unseasoned for them (although I eat most of the meat off before giving them the bone, and I only do this once every week or two). If he's just eating a really cheap food he could probably use the extra protien and minerals as well. Non-sugary cereals can also be added, as well as grains....I go to the bulk section of our local market and buy things like steel cut oats, quinoa, pearl barley, unsalted nuts, anything unprocessed that's big enough for them to pick up, except raw beans and raw peanuts aren't safe. Noodles are good too, since they're just flour and water, my girls really like the whole wheat spiral ones and the multi-colored shells, they're nice and crunchy. Also, fresh fruits and veggies in moderation are great for them, though some are unsafe...here's a link for putting together your own diet www.ratsrule.com/diet.html and another on rat-safe foods www.theratsplace.com/rat-guide/unsafe-foods-for-rats/ . Candice has a lot more experience than I do so I hope she'll chime in with other ideas too . I don't have any ideas to help with the social aspect if your sister in law is going to be unreasonable about letting you take him, but hopefully the above will help keep him a little happier and healthier until something is figured out.
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Post by shilohismygirl on Jun 3, 2011 17:22:37 GMT -5
Thank you so much for the advice! I am definitely going to sneak good foods in and things like cardboard tubing and things. I did give him some unsweetened cereal today because I did see that he could have that somewhere online. I also gave him a florlet of broccoli. It's nice to know about the cooked bones-I am sure he'd love to have some. The staples of my diet definitely meet the criteria of the supplemental foods I could get him. I am a very healthy eater, and I wouldn't mind taking the time and care to read a ton about him so I get his diet/care correct and as best as any fur mom could. I hope she lets me take him. I saw an 8-in-one rodent food box in her room and I know that the brand crappy for ferrets and it cannot be much better for rats either, I would imagine. That's basically all he eats so I can't imagine he's healthy. And she probably doesn't feed him half the time even though she says she is and insists that 'he's alright'. He looks gaunt to me. He is young still, but he should be eating so much better. He never gets floor time. I hope she lets me have him so that I can help this furboy out. If she does let me have him, what is proper bedding to use other than wood? His cage is not even as big as a proper hamster cage should be. I don't know the brand, but it is a generic top latching wire cage that is probably about this size, www.google.com/products/catalog?q=small+animal+cage&hl=en&rlz=1C1_____enUS433US433&prmd=ivns&biw=1366&bih=667&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=8198702336395496355&sa=X&ei=bV7pTZylG-r30gGA962PAQ&ved=0CKIBEPICMAQ4FA, with no levels, etc. This isn't the exact cage, but if you take the stuff out, it looks a lot alike.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2011 17:46:43 GMT -5
Here's a good link on bedding ratguide.com/care/environment/cage_bedding_litter.php. I've used aspen and carefresh and found the aspen shavings were messier but controlled the smell better, and I thought both were about the same level of dusty. Now I just have my girls on cloth, I made two sets of bedding and switch them out whenever the smell starts getting noticable (4-6 days-ish). I'm working on litter training but we only started that about a week ago so we haven't made much progress yet . I use Swheat Scoop in their litter box. There's a pic of my set-up about halfway down this thread holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=cage&action=display&thread=607&page=4, I decided not to use the shelf and instead made hammock-shelves...it looked like Happy's cage is small but taller than it is wide, maybe you could sew him a little hammock or tube so he has somewhere to rest up out of the shavings? My girls love their pant leg tube and usually sleep in there. Ramps shouldn't be necessary since they're so good at climbing the cage. Poor guy. If she lets you take him, maybe you'll find a good deal on a better cage on craigslist.
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Post by shilohismygirl on Jun 3, 2011 18:01:52 GMT -5
Oh, if she lets me have him, I am SO getting him something better. I am not at all keeping him in that darned thing any longer than I have to. I am a good seamstress so I'd be no problem to make him some hammies. I'd really rather keep him on cloth and litter train him-I could make my own bedding or get him some nice stuff. The trouble is if I make him anything before I've had the go ahead to take him, which may be unlikely, my sister in law will not like it. I've offered to give him things, hammies, tunnels, etc and she felt threatened. I am very polite in the way I deal with her as well, so it wasn't that I was being aggressive. I tried to play it off like I just had it extra and maybe Happy might like it. No dice. Also, that bell I put into his cage was a bit of a feat to get her to accept. She's probably allow me to get him a better diet going and clean his cage, but she wouldn't keep up with it herself but then I am doing most of the work with none of the benefits of being able to decide what kind of life he ultimately has. I am afraid that by helping out too much in that way, I'd be allowing her to be a crappy caregiver and then when I leave it goes right back to how it is now. I hope she lets me take him so much!
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Post by acodlin on Jun 3, 2011 19:12:18 GMT -5
I don't know anything about rats but I hope she'll let you have him! Poor little guy..
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Post by Heather on Jun 3, 2011 21:50:19 GMT -5
I no absolutely nothing about rats but this fellow deserves better. Is there something you could negotiate with her? Something she wants to trade him for? Something that would appeal to her, that would make it appear that it doesn't really matter to you but you might have a vague fascination with him. She appears to be bored with him, so perhaps offering another object that she may want (I"m not suggesting another living creature) but something that she may want that would be worth to you to trade Happy for? I don't know. Who's got psychological background here who could give us a hand at being manipulative ;D ciao
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Post by shilohismygirl on Jun 3, 2011 22:13:34 GMT -5
I may well have something, Heather. That's a very good idea. She's a girl very obsessed with material items (so much so that since we moved in some of hubby and I thinks periodically go missing only for me to find them again in her room... ). I may have a nice piece of jewelry or something I can give her in exchange. Maybe she'd take my high end hair straightener ( I hardly use it anyway!) or some of my music boxes out of my collection that I have here in storage. Maybe my collection of Nightmare Before Christmas memorabilia. I don't have a ton, but what I do have I am willing to part with to give this boy a chance at happiness. Maybe I can downplay how I feel about it-maybe saying I really wish I had a rat because I've always wanted one and that I could totally trade her some of my things and that I'd love to take care of him because she seems a little busy. I do know that attacking her will definitely not get me what I'd like, so I will most certainly refrain from showing how disappointed I am in her care. Thanks, Heather!
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Post by Sherry on Jun 4, 2011 0:04:28 GMT -5
If you have any electronic gizmos you can spare, that might go over even better. Good luck with getting this little guy, and let us know what happens!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2011 6:03:43 GMT -5
Hey, Gwen!! Sorry to come in so late on this thread. I truly love HFF, lol - I get to indulge my rodent love as well as my fuzzy love on a carnivore forum! Priceless. We have everything here. It sounds like a really bad situation to me. Now that I have my ratties - pics coming soon - I have a special from-nature mix I make them (similar to my mouse mix, but not exactly so). Hannah knows what I'm talking about - she received the non-edited version (LOL it was a mess). Anyway it has been cleaned up a bit and I'm more than happy to e-mail it to you if you are interested in making a mix. Personally I feel that rodent pellets are just as much trash as ferret kibble. In reference to what you said about 8-in-1, I don't like them in general, but Whole Foods does sell their Ecotrition Brand - "Ecotrition Organic Hamster & Gerbil" formula. It is fairly decent, as far as mixes with pellets in it go, and actually certified with organic ingredients. Unfortunately, all pellet diets have alfalfa in them (which provides absolutely no nutritional value - it is complete filler) and an excess of soy (also filler, and proven to cause tumors in rats and mice). The only half-decent pellet out there is the laboratory block Harlan Teklad 2014 because it does not have alfalfa and contains the lowest amounts of soy (oil form) on the market. I still do not even want to risk that so I started making my own. I can send you the recipe, which is loosely based on the Shunamite diet, and has information on fresh foods (vegetables, fruits, hard-boiled egg, and insects) as well. Rats do very well on the occasional tidbit of raw organic meat and bone. The only reason I say organic is because of the high amounts of hormones and pesticides, which can and usually does cause all manner of health problems in rats (and they already have quite enough with susceptibility to growths and respiratory disease). Hannah's right - the goosemoose forum is an excellent one. I also really like the holistarat list on yahoo. Sherry may be on to something! A low cost, glitzy thing she might be interested in would be a refurbed iPod Nano (one of the new small ones with screens) that you jazz up with stick on jewels or something. I get the feel she'd be into something like that (pink and Paris Hiltonesque? ), and then maybe you wouldn't have to sacrifice your collection. (Nightmare Before Christmas is great.) Gather what you know about her and possibly assimilate it into something that epitomizes her "style". Letting her know you have always wanted a rat may only make her think she has a bargaining chip or be even more defensive and suspicious. Maybe if you played coy it would work out better. If you can get this rat somehow and keep him, get him a baby brother. Males respond best to younger rats when introduced, rather than adults, or there can be trouble. If you can get him but can't keep him - I'm in Vancouver, WA. I think you mentioned you might be passing through the area at some point. Even if not, I'm on the RatsPacNW list which covers Idaho, Oregon, and Washington and people are on this list looking to adopt or willing to take in an extra all of the time. Let me know what happens, I'll be keeping Happy (Gilmore? LOL) in my thoughts. He sounds so sweet, I love his name!
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Post by shilohismygirl on Jun 4, 2011 6:41:20 GMT -5
I do have an 80 gig zune with a ton of music on it that I have been wanting to get rid of and that she keeps asking to borrow, and hubby did mention that I might have best luck with using that as a bargaining tool. I guess you guys and my husband are on the same train of thought and hubby is her brother so he does know her best. Candice, she is that kind of girl, so you are so right. I absolutely do what your recipe for your rat diet. I'd like to provide him with the very best that I can, and I doubt that making him a great, healthy diet would be a problem. I did read that alfalfa is not great for them to eat-much like ferrets and plant matter, huh? You're probably right-I'll try playing it cool and coy and see how she takes it. If I get to keep him, then I will find him a baby brother. If I have to re-home him, I would love to find someone knowledgeable in rat care. I wish I could set him up with you! I don't think I will be passing through Washington as I will be taking my ferrets with me to AZ while hubby is in basic. Thanks all for thinking of poor Happy. I wish it were happy Gilmore but his full name is Happy Trail (redneck, I know-not my choice) because of the line on his tum-tum. If I kept him, he'd be just "Happy". That's what he answers to.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2011 15:43:43 GMT -5
The zune idea is even better! Yay, that really sounds promising. I'll send you the edited rat diet with mix recipe for picking at and fresh food info on here. The alfalfa thing kind of is like ferrets and plant matter, I never thought of it that way! Having no soy in his food will limit health problems too. There have been studies done on how it causes tumors in them, and in fact my breeder started using Harlan Teklad 2014 in her mix (the no alfalfa, lowest amount of soy pellet) and told me she saw tumors go WAY down. It was pretty interesting. Happy Trail, LOL. Yeah, just Happy is much cuter, wow. I feel so bad for this little guy, I know when you get him his life will definitely take a turn for the better.
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Post by shilohismygirl on Jun 4, 2011 16:22:42 GMT -5
<3 He is a good boy! I'll take pictures as soon as I can. I'm afraid to post pics of him in his cage because I am pretty sure that it would be upsetting to everyone. But, he is beautiful and I can say that I am doing whatever it takes to get him out. For me, it's operation rescue. Thank you so much. I will be doing more research and I'll probably be asking a million more questions.
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Post by shilohismygirl on Jun 4, 2011 18:46:20 GMT -5
Hey, all. I've decided to post pictures. They may be very sad, but trust that I am GOING to see this rectified one way or another. h*ll has no wrath that matches my will to save him from this. Here he is, the cutie. I'm so sorry you have to see this horrible cage. One thing I want to ask, rat owners or those with rat experience: I feel like plastic shouldn't be in his cage. Right now I am afraid to take it out because I am pretty sure my SIL will flip. Not that she's been home in all of four days to even care while she's away, but anyway, he's had this stupid house and bowl made out of plastic in there for awhile. Are my fears founded? Is plastic a no-no? Or is it OK?Obviously, if I get him, all of this goes in the trash but is it something I should be immediately worried about?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2011 18:56:15 GMT -5
I really hope you get him. I just love rats. I had quite a few when I was younger. Good luck!
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