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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 23:00:10 GMT -5
Sophie was mad during her grab and dab. Gave her.1oz during the 15 minute bathroom session. She tore up my makeup bag and only ate a little tiny chunk that got on her face, otherwise she wiped her face and shook her head to try and get it off. Lol.
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Post by katt on Feb 16, 2017 23:47:48 GMT -5
Sounds like a ferret! :rofl: She thought she had you good and trained and here you are not giving up on that darn icky soup. :rofl: It sounds like the session went perfectly - I don't expect her to be happy about it yet - she'll get there. It's like making a toddler sit down and eat their broccoli if they want to leave the table. They aren't happy about it and may throw quite the tantrum, but mom knows best and knows veggies are super important. And in time they tantrum less and even eventually learn to enjoy the broccoli. CONGRATS on a session well done! Celebrate your victory today! It's all about the baby steps and out-stubborning the spoiled toddler. Hehe Tomorrow is round two! Repeat the same process tomorrow (don't worry, I expect the same result, this takes time but she WILL get there as long as you persist). Let us know how it goes!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 0:53:17 GMT -5
Same situation with Sophie, but we are still trying. Wolf is choosing to eat some chicken in his cage out of the dish. And I also do a daytime handfeeding for him. Is it time to try him on another meat yet? Or do you want the chunks to be larger? They are bigger than slivers now.
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Post by katt on Feb 20, 2017 4:26:11 GMT -5
Same situation with Sophie, but we are still trying. Wolf is choosing to eat some chicken in his cage out of the dish. And I also do a daytime handfeeding for him. Is it time to try him on another meat yet? Or do you want the chunks to be larger? They are bigger than slivers now. Great job!! Keep it up! Sorry I was out yesterday. Definitely keep up the Daily bathroom dates with Sophie. Hehe For Wolf that is great progress! You can certainly add in some chunks of a different protein if you'd like, but I would keep the soup the same. If you haven't already though, I would actually suggest trying heart slivers *first* before another protein. If he will take those that will be a really big step in moving towards an early menu for him. That way once he eats hearts, we can have him get hearts for one of his meals (the other half will be covered by the heart he's getting in his soupies for now), and work on other proteins and organs during the rest of the week. Let us know if you have any Q's about that. If you give it a shot this week let us know how it goes?
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Post by katt on Feb 20, 2017 22:45:14 GMT -5
Just checking in for the night.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 11:58:05 GMT -5
Bad news. Sophie has congestive heart failure. They have given her a year max to live, and said it isn't worth doing anything for it because of her age and the cost. They also said that is why she refuses to eat meat. So I am not going to try with her anymore. They said that it is great that Wolf is switching to a raw diet. They said we will know when the time is right to put her down, but said her quality of life is fine right now and she isn't in any pain. Princess doctor was also pleased that she eats mostly raw meat. She had her surgery for spaying this morning, so we will pick her up tonight. Both doctors recommend to give them a small amount of kibble throughout the day, 1/2 cup at most for Wolf and Princess to get all of their nutrients and minerals necessary. I did give Wolf ground turkey and he ate that up. Will try plain hearts today, as I didn't see your message til now. Also, Sophie's weight is down to 2 lbs 8 ounces, so I am guessing she might go downhill fast with that amount of weight loss. I'm kind of a wreck right now, but the doctor said that heart failure is common in ferrets.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 13:39:58 GMT -5
Bad news. Sophie has congestive heart failure. They have given her a year max to live, and said it isn't worth doing anything for it because of her age and the cost. They also said that is why she refuses to eat meat. So I am not going to try with her anymore. They said that it is great that Wolf is switching to a raw diet. They said we will know when the time is right to put her down, but said her quality of life is fine right now and she isn't in any pain. Princess doctor was also pleased that she eats mostly raw meat. She had her surgery for spaying this morning, so we will pick her up tonight. Both doctors recommend to give them a small amount of kibble throughout the day, 1/2 cup at most for Wolf and Princess to get all of their nutrients and minerals necessary. I did give Wolf ground turkey and he ate that up. Will try plain hearts today, as I didn't see your message til now. Also, Sophie's weight is down to 2 lbs 8 ounces, so I am guessing she might go downhill fast with that amount of weight loss. I'm kind of a wreck right now, but the doctor said that heart failure is common in ferrets. I said the wrong thing. Sophie has advanced heart disease.
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Post by katt on Feb 22, 2017 21:35:11 GMT -5
Bad news. Sophie has congestive heart failure. They have given her a year max to live, and said it isn't worth doing anything for it because of her age and the cost. They also said that is why she refuses to eat meat. So I am not going to try with her anymore. They said that it is great that Wolf is switching to a raw diet. They said we will know when the time is right to put her down, but said her quality of life is fine right now and she isn't in any pain. Princess doctor was also pleased that she eats mostly raw meat. She had her surgery for spaying this morning, so we will pick her up tonight. Both doctors recommend to give them a small amount of kibble throughout the day, 1/2 cup at most for Wolf and Princess to get all of their nutrients and minerals necessary. I did give Wolf ground turkey and he ate that up. Will try plain hearts today, as I didn't see your message til now. Also, Sophie's weight is down to 2 lbs 8 ounces, so I am guessing she might go downhill fast with that amount of weight loss. I'm kind of a wreck right now, but the doctor said that heart failure is common in ferrets. Bad news. Sophie has congestive heart failure. I said the wrong thing. Sophie has advanced heart disease.CHF, advanced heart disease - both effectively mean the same thing. How was the diagnosis made? Did he listen to her? XRays? Ultrasound? They have given her a year max to live, and said it isn't worth doing anything for it because of her age and the cost.I'm sorry but that is utter balogna and makes me really frustrated for you and little Sophie. I would recommend looking for another vet if this is truly what your vet is recommending. Judging prognosis in a ferret with heart disease at any stage is difficult at best - it is a guessing game. Some are relatively young and otherwise vibrant and are dead in weeks (Sonny Piccirillo is a perfect example), some that seemed impossibly ill live for years. Koda was diagnosed with heart failure. We were not sure if he would make it 6 months. We started him on meds. It has now been two years and while he is slowing down (he is also 7.5 years old), he is going strong. He tantrums to be let out of the cage in the morning, then stomps around the house like he owns it (which he does) until he decides it is time to go back to napping. He follows me around the house, tries to steal my food, snuggles in our laps, explores his box tunnels, snorkels in his water dish. He has a happy life, all thanks to his medications and raw diet. @yureiavalon 's has a boy that was diagnosed with heart failure also - that was over 3 years ago and he is still going strong. Heart failure is not cureable, but it IS TREATABLE. There are several medications that can significantly improve their quality of life, as well as lengthen the amount of (quality!) time that they have. And the meds are NOT expensive at all. The typical heart meds are enalapril, lasix, and when they are severe enough, Pimobendan is often added. Koda is on all 3, as well as a heart supplement that contains taurine, CoQ10, and Hawthorne. These meds can reduce the strain on the heart, improve their ability to circulate blood from a failing heart, reduce fluid buildup on the body and lungs so they can breathe better, improve their energy, and overall can drastically improve their quality of life. Please do not leave your ferret unmedicated when there are many inexpensive medical treatment options available. Whether she has 10 years, 1 year, or 1 week left is entirely irrelevant. She should be kept as comfortable as possible during her remaining time - which medications can help with significantly. They also said that is why she refuses to eat meat. So I am not going to try with her anymore. This is absolutely false. She is refusing because she is a ferret that is imprinted on kibble and doesn't recognize raw meat as food. Ferrets are stubborn and some take more time and work to convert. Heart disease has absolutely zero impact on whether or not a ferret will accept a certain type of food. In fact, being on raw could significantly improve her quality of life by improving her overall health, improving her body's baseline hydration so that she is better able to tolerate the heart medications, providing the proteins and nutrients needed to stay strong and maintain what muscle she has left in her heart.... One vet I worked with even outright said that the only reason Koda was still alive and doing as well as he is is because of his raw diet. If this is indeed the type of advice your vet is giving I must strongly urge you to find a new vet. Please, for the sake of your precious little girl, look for a second opinion - preferably from a knowledgeable and experienced ferret vet. They said we will know when the time is right to put her down, but said her quality of life is fine right now and she isn't in any pain. Pain and discomfort are very different things, but both need to be addressed. If is is truly not in any discomfort, then her heart disease is NOT that severe. When the heart is significantly failing, it struggles to pump sufficient amounts of blood to the body - either because the heart cannot pump strongly enough, or because it is too stiff to expand and fill properly. This means that enough blood is not pumping to the body - including the kidneys, brain, and lungs - which causes fatigue, low energy, organ disease, and general discomfort. This ALSO causes a backup of the circulatory system which leads to fluid collection in the body and/or lungs. When fluid accumulates in the lungs, breathing becomes uncomfortable and eventually beyond uncomfortable - imagine drowning in your own fluids. (Lasix helps to draw off this excess fluid and help them breathe better, move better, and be able to be more mobile). The blood backup also causes even MORE strain and pressure on the heart because it then has to work against the pressure it has created in failing, causing further failure. Medications like enalapril can help to reduce the pressure of the backup and relieve the extra strain on the heart, allowing the blood to circulate better. This improves their overall quality of life, the length of their life, the work and strain on their heart, and improves the circulation to their vital organs. If she is not in discomfort, her heart has not yet begun to fail to a point that is truly severe. And even if it HAS, medications can often go a LONG way to helping.Both doctors recommend to give them a small amount of kibble throughout the day, 1/2 cup at most for Wolf and Princess to get all of their nutrients and minerals necessary. They recommend that to cover their own butts because, sadly, many people who feed raw do NOT offer a properly balanced diet and we live in a day and age when people love lawsuits. If they tell you "raw is great" and you feed an unbalanced diet and your ferret gets sick as a result, you could come back later and sue them. So of course they will recommend some supplementation - it protects them from lawsuits by litigious people who don't feed raw diets properly. An unbalanced raw diet is dangerous and can lead to serious nutrition deficiencies. However, on a PROPERLY BALANCED and VARIED raw diet, they WILL be getting ALL of the nutrients - proteins, vitamins, minerals, fats, etc - that they need and there is absolutely NO need for supplementation of any kind. Keeping kibble in their diet will only serve to continue providing them with a source of dietary carbohydrates, causing undue strain on their pancreas and significantly increasing their risk of insulinoma (which is fatal). Think about it - there is no one in the wild offering little dishes of supplemental kibble to wild polecats and ferrets. If they weren't getting what they needed from a raw diet, the species would have died off centuries ago. I know it can be scary when you hear the "professionals" saying that you need supplements, but I assure you that a BALANCED raw diet WILL provide everything your babies need to be happy and healthy.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 21:57:11 GMT -5
The diagnosis was made by listening to her. She has a bad heart murmur which she came to the conclusion. I do agree that Sophie Switching to a raw diet has nothing to do with her heart. It isn't my choice not to try and give her any extra help, the doctor just suggested that because getting x-rays and giving medicine will not prolong her life any more than if she doesn't get extra treatment. They said her heart is too bad to even make a difference with medication. I still want to switch Wolf to a full raw diet, but stressing Sophie out isn't worth her having a heart attack over.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 22:01:56 GMT -5
I will look for another vet. She is an exotic vet that we take her to. I believe the next closest is Milwaukee. I will do research and try to find one to make her an appointment
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Post by katt on Feb 22, 2017 22:04:10 GMT -5
The diagnosis was made by listening to her. She has a bad heart murmur which she came to the conclusion. I do agree that Sophie Switching to a raw diet has nothing to do with her heart. It isn't my choice not to try and give her any extra help, the doctor just suggested that because getting x-rays and giving medicine will not prolong her life any more than if she doesn't get extra treatment. They said her heart is too bad to even make a difference with medication. I still want to switch Wolf to a full raw diet, but stressing Sophie out isn't worth her having a heart attack over. You can not diagnose heart failure only based on listening. You can also absolutely not determine how bad her heart is just by listening. The severity of a murmur does NOT correlate to clinical severity. Many severe murmurs are entirely benign, and many very mild murmurs are associated with horrible heart disease - and everything in between. She should at least have an XRay done. An Xray is very simple to do and will show any enlargement of her heart, as well as any fluid buildup on her lungs. It will also give you a baseline image to compare future XRays too. An ultrasound is even better but can be spendy and may require sedation. At the BARE MINIMUM an XRay should be done. Medications absolutely CAN prolong her life. In fact Enalapril in particular has been specifically proven to prolong life and reduce mortality in many different species with heart failure. Please look for another vet who is more experienced with ferrets. I am begging you, for Sophie's sake.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2017 1:18:06 GMT -5
Tried heart with Wolf. He didn't want anything to do with it. Guess he will stick with the soup ie for that, or maybe I could grind it up and put it on other meat. He's doing well with chunks of chicken and turkey.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2017 14:51:44 GMT -5
Hey! I am back! Alright, can you give me wolf's weight and what exactly he's been eating?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2017 5:10:51 GMT -5
Hey! I am back! Alright, can you give me wolf's weight and what exactly he's been eating? WOLF weighs 2lbs 5 oz. I've been feeding him 1/2 oz of soupies and 1 oz of meat per day, plus kibble at night. He eats chicken chunks or turkey. He will not eat red meats(heart or any other) unless it is in the soup. We tried beef and chicken hearts, ground bison, and hamburger. He is doing well with the stuff he is eating, and looks for it when I'm in the kitchen. It's kind of cute. I didn't think his coat could get any softer, but it's getting softer every week. So nice! Also, I bought some salmon oil, and he doesn't like that, so I give it to Princess, she eats anything meat related!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 1:11:28 GMT -5
Hey! I am back! Alright, can you give me wolf's weight and what exactly he's been eating? WOLF weighs 2lbs 5 oz. I've been feeding him 1/2 oz of soupies and 1 oz of meat per day, plus kibble at night. He eats chicken chunks or turkey. He will not eat red meats(heart or any other) unless it is in the soup. We tried beef and chicken hearts, ground bison, and hamburger. He is doing well with the stuff he is eating, and looks for it when I'm in the kitchen. It's kind of cute. I didn't think his coat could get any softer, but it's getting softer every week. So nice! Also, I bought some salmon oil, and he doesn't like that, so I give it to Princess, she eats anything meat related! So you are feeding chunks of meat in his soup? How big are these chunks? So he doesn't eat anything red meat so no bison or beef? Salmon oil you just need to teeth him. Put some on your finger and dab on his gums till he starts licking it. Princess sounds like she is doing well! Great job! What does her menu look like?
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