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Post by Heather on Jan 12, 2017 23:09:14 GMT -5
Application: Moxie and TinkerBella Name: Rae Krushensky HF Forum Username: raebees Please confirm that you are 18 years of age or older: Oh yes, almost twice that now. 😝 1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? Google led me to the forum. 2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret. I'd love a combination of frankenprey and frozen whole prey. 3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? Cause kibble is nasty! And you can't trust the manufacturers. 4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It requires a commitment of several months at minimum. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switching your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as committed. The switch takes time and effort every single day. It can also be extremely frustrating at times. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc), or limited time due to work, then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing and realistically able to make the neccessary time commitment? Considering that we're a month and a half in, I fully understand and agree. I am willing to give as much time as I have to getting them off of grinds. 5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for? I have 2 spayed females, both Marshall ferrets. They joined our home on 10/29/16. Moxie, the sable, was a little little for my tastes but has put on weight nicely. I believe she is a 2016 baby but probably very close to a year old now. She does NOT have a hunger drive and I worry about her eating enough. She may also be intolerant to chicken as the couple times I've included breast as the slivers, she's puked hours later and it has been rather undigested. TinkerBella used to be only a little bigger than Moxie. She ballooned. I would put her at a little younger than a year, by a couple months possibly. I'm worried about her weight now. The grinds and easy eating cause her to overeat a lot! Both had vet checks this last week. Aside from ear mites and fleas (we revolutioned them and the cat and will be doing one more dose next month) they are healthy. The vet wants to keep an eye on Bella's weight, too. Fortunately she is ok with raw. 6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) Do they already eat some form of soup? We are following the frankenprey menu, modified because we're not tearing chunks yet. Bone meal powder is added to just about every meal. Salmon oil is the only treat but it's also used to entice Moxie to eat. 7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? First time raw feeder here. 8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? Just that I love them and I'm a sucker for a begger (Bella) but I'm also gone from the home for sometimes 8 hours or more and I'm terrified that if I can't get Moxie to eat, that she will get sick. I'm also doing this with little to no assistance other than what I've found in the forum. 9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? Never. Since I've downloaded Tapatalk, accessing the forum from my phone has been remarkably easy though. 10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible). Hi and welcome to the mentoring program . In a little while your mentor (Aftershock) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you to move along safely in this endeavour. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by Aftershock on Jan 13, 2017 0:38:34 GMT -5
Why hello there raebees! 😂 fancy meeting you here!❤ Since explaining myself is always awkward, if you would like to read up more on me, please take a look at the very bottom of the Meet Your Mentor page here: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/21689/meet-mentor?page=1&scrollTo=306715Now, down to the nitty gritty 😉 would you mind posting me an update on the girls in this format please? 1. Ferret's name: 2. Ferret's weight: 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. 4. Stools on various proteins. 5. Activity levels: 6. Weekly Menu I would like this small questionnaire answered once a week please. I will let you choose what your weekly day will be. 😀 I look forward to helping you, Moxie, and Bella on your raw journey❤❤❤
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raebees
Junior Member
Raw Feeder
Yes, i am contagious. 😂😂
Posts: 219
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Post by raebees on Jan 13, 2017 3:25:12 GMT -5
Hello yourself Aftershock ! I am stoked! Now, maybe, we will be able to move beyond handfeeding! Thinking about my schedule, Tuesday's or Saturdays tend to be my most free days, however, I'm used to running Sun-Sat weeks so Sundays will probably be the day I choose for the questionaiire. If it's ok with you, I'll start then? If you want the info NAOW 😂😂 you only need to say so. Weights this week were 1000g for Moxie and 1540g for Bella. They have stopped gaining for about 2 weeks now and Bella has even lost some. She's gone from having hardly any energy because of the rapid weight gain, to instigating play with Moxie. I feel only a little bad for Mox because it wasn't that long ago that she would torment Bella to play. 😂😂 The tables are turning! BTW lime green is my first favorite color, too! Followed closely by orange, red and yellow 😉
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Post by Aftershock on Jan 13, 2017 20:26:52 GMT -5
Sunday works great for me! 😂😂😂😂😂😂 Bella has the most adorable big old booty! I wanted to ask, do you think she could be in winter mode while Moxie has decided it's summer? It's common for Marshall's to have reverse seasons. Also, how goes teaching them to eat from the dish?!
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raebees
Junior Member
Raw Feeder
Yes, i am contagious. 😂😂
Posts: 219
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Post by raebees on Jan 16, 2017 2:00:04 GMT -5
Wow, tapatalk is not as reliable as I thought. I would have responded before now had I known you had asked a question Aftershock 🙉🙊 I'm pretty sure Bella is in winter mode. Her coat grew in back in November. I always feel so bad for them the first week, all those hairs pushing through makes them super itchy. Moxie's coat hasn't changed all that much, I wondered if sables just did things differently. 😕 I hope she doesn't grow a fluffy one this summer. It gets hot here! Is there anything I can do to help her switch around? I limit light with them regardless and they are exposed to cold via the garage which isn't heated or insulated. She definitely doesn't seem to seek the cold the way Bella does. Bella would sleep out there if I let her. As far as eating from the dish, goes, it's hit or miss. The other day, she wouldn't touch it. I left it after booping her nose a few times. When I came home, it hadn't been touched. Even today, she skirts the dish warily, eyeing it like it's bitter apple spray or something. If Moxie could go through life not eating, I'm pretty sure she would. I finally weighed the quail parts. Wings - 5-6g Legs - 11-12g Neck/Spine - 13-15g Moxie eats about 9-12g bone-in consistently, a little more if I have time to offer more than once before having to leave. Bella eats about 20-23g consistently, more if time allows. After bone, I'll chop it all into a mash and BellyBelle will eat at least another oz or more. I push the larger chunky pieces her way so she has to chew. Sometimes Moxie will refuse the mashed quail, especially if there are too many large pieces or she feels too many bones. In fact, I would say every time but once she has required booping and encouragement to eat. Most of the time Bella is ready to eat but Mox sometimes requires a bit of time to wake up, even for the parts. Ok, down to business. 1. Ferret's name: Moxie 2. Ferret's weight: 950g (⬇) 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. 1/2 to 1oz 4. Stools on various proteins. Almost always dark. Sometimes a little formed, usually sqwooshy. Not diarrhea, but not "formed" 5. Activity levels: Very Active. Scratching at her cage to be let out as I type. 6. Weekly Menu: See Bella below 1. Ferret's name: TinkerBella 2. Ferret's weight: 1500g (⬇) 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. 1 to 2oz 4. Stools on various proteins. Mostly formed, there is a softness about them. They are consistently lighter in color than Moxie's. 5. Activity levels: Getting better. She has found a few favorite toys and is able to play for longer. 6. Weekly Menu Mon AM- Quail PM- Chicken wing and thigh Tues AM- Quail PM- Pork (slivered and diced) Wed AM- Chicken wing and thigh PM- 1/2 chicken heart, 1/4 liver (chicken or beef), 1/4 spleen or kidney (pork) Thurs AM- Quail PM- Chicken wing and ground Turkey Fri AM- Quail PM- 1/2 chicken heart, 1/4 liver (chicken or beef), 1/4 spleen or kidney (pork) Sat AM- Quail and Chicken thigh PM- Pork slivers and ground Beef Sun AM- Chicken wing and ground Turkey PM- 1/2 chicken heart, 1/4 liver (chicken or beef), 1/4 spleen or kidney (pork) I reworked organ nights to include heart every time. Their intake decreases dramatically on Sunday's without it. I'm fairly sure that's a correct dirstribution but please let me know if it's not. Organ nights are also my favorite because it's the only meal that Moxie eats more of than Bella. I'm sure there was more I wanted to add but I forget now. I'm going to post body pics after this plus a video that maybe you can help shed some light on. Moxie shakes every time she eats. It doesn't start until she's eating but the moment food touches her mouth, she shivers. Considering how little she eats and how much prodding I have to give her, I'm not sure it's from pleasure. Could she be afraid? She's done this, even from the beginning when I first gave them duk soup (Marshalls brand) which she loved. I seriously miss using that stuff sometimes. I could sprinkle it on almost anything and she would eat with little help. We didn't use it long and not on chunks or anything larger than grinds but it helped get them eating what I was offering. Ok, pics to follow.
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raebees
Junior Member
Raw Feeder
Yes, i am contagious. 😂😂
Posts: 219
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Post by raebees on Jan 16, 2017 2:21:23 GMT -5
They just had their nails trimmed, that's salmon oil she's attempting to lick while dangling. The pics are, unfortunately, after dinner. Next time I'll grab them before the meal bulge. Bella hates dangling. She wouldn't stay still 😝 Her neck fat pads have gotten smaller, but the ones near her hind legs have decreased dramatically. She's still fattypatty but she can move a lot better. Moxie's shiver video. And cause they're cute!
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Post by Aftershock on Jan 16, 2017 22:13:48 GMT -5
Bahahahahaha, tapatalk frustrates me, so I generally use Chrome. Hmmmmm, from the picture though, Moxie does look pretty chunky and she's still wearing a mask. I always just think of her as skin and bones from the way you talk about her. 😂😂😂😂 I have a couple of missions for you. First mission, I'd like you to start documenting how much you served them, how much they ate, and how much was left over. You can write this on a paper or post it here each day. I would like this done for a week. Second mission, when you feed Moxie and Bella shorten hand feeding sessions to 30 minutes. (This time should be shortened about five minutes every few days, or sooner if there isn't much of a fight) Every time you hand feed, boop on the nose for a chomp, let Moxie chew, then put the food back on the dish. It sounds like she's got you wrapped around her, and has you trained to handfeed her if she doesn't eat a bit. This habit has to break. I know you are worried about how much she eats, but she needs to learn the plate feeds her, not you. The organ distribution looks great! Let me get back to you on the shivering. (Off to search the depths of HF) I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with her being scared ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ I won't lie, I love all of the videos you post!
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raebees
Junior Member
Raw Feeder
Yes, i am contagious. 😂😂
Posts: 219
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Post by raebees on Jan 17, 2017 1:58:38 GMT -5
Alright, a plan is in place. They're starting to enjoy chicken almost as much as quail so I have some hope. Question: Chicken thighbones are fine for them, right? I thought I read that all bones of most fowl are edible. I ask because I chopped one in half and let Bella at it after smacking it but I could tell the bone was ... harder, denser? The first time I let her have one, she coughed and heaved almost right off the bat. I think a piece flew down her throat from me smacking it. Tonight I let her try again and she was loving it! I didn't let her eat the whole half because the splintered ends were daunting and I wanted to confirm they were fine before letting her go to town. I'm also going to get those shower hooks this weekend to see if I hang parts in their cage, if at least Bella will eat them. I will be defrosting whole cgh this weekend as well, to be included in next week's menu. Now to remember to weigh stuff when I wake up...
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raebees
Junior Member
Raw Feeder
Yes, i am contagious. 😂😂
Posts: 219
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Post by raebees on Jan 17, 2017 2:22:40 GMT -5
Oh yes, the skin and bones girl. She is one of the smallest ferrets I've met. When we first brought them home, she was so light, I thought I would break her. I also felt she wasn't eating well or with enough balance at her previous home. Now that she is a 'healthier' 😂 weight and I am understanding how little she may need to eat, I'm more comfortable letting her go longer without needing a fill up. I'll update tomorrow night with breakfast and dinner weights (gotta remember to weigh stuff.....)
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raebees
Junior Member
Raw Feeder
Yes, i am contagious. 😂😂
Posts: 219
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Post by raebees on Jan 17, 2017 2:29:22 GMT -5
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Post by Aftershock on Jan 17, 2017 3:04:40 GMT -5
Look at you all observant and stuff! 😉 Thigh bones are perfectly fine to feed if your ferrets will eat them. 😀 I still smash them up a tiny bit so my crew knows there is a reward (marrow) for eating them. I hear mixed things about turkey thigh bones though. It very much depends on the ferret. 😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍 How do they manage to look so comfy all of the time? Hey, don't forget to write down how much you serve them tomorrow morning! 😉 You will get to the point you will be able to list off howuch you feed of what off the top of your head. Example for my three: 3-4 oz bone in chicken 3 oz turkey neck 3-4 oz bone in duck 6-7oz hearts 3-5oz beef 3-5oz pork 6oz liver kidney mix
Note how the bone in meals are generally less because they have to work harder to eat them. 😀 that was all off the top of my head 😂😂😂😂
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raebees
Junior Member
Raw Feeder
Yes, i am contagious. 😂😂
Posts: 219
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Post by raebees on Jan 17, 2017 3:19:40 GMT -5
I can tell you what I offer (3 to 4 oz bone in/muscle), 8oz organs. It's the 'how much did they eat' part I don't know. And I'm sure it will all change once I'm no longer smashing and dicing the crap outta everything! AND you just reminded me to track down necks again... AND WEIGH THINGS TOMORROW! 😂
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Post by Aftershock on Jan 17, 2017 12:12:14 GMT -5
Heyyyyyyyyy, DON'T FORGET TO WEIGH THINGS! bhahahahaha
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Post by Aftershock on Jan 17, 2017 12:13:25 GMT -5
Also! MINI LESSON TIME!As a new ferrent, you are now on poop duty! (giggle) Our little fuzzies poop can tell us a lot about their specific dietary needs and how they are feeling. On a raw diet, their poop generally varies from protein to protein (this is why we ask what their poop looks like fairly often. ) Occasionally there will be a random, odd poop and nothing to worry about. Introducing new proteins can make for some weird poops too. So, if you ever feel nervous about what is coming out of your ferret ask, are they eating anything new? How many times has this happened? What does it smell like? Back to the poops themselves, I mentioned they can tell about your ferrets individual dietary needs, too much bone in their diet will cause seedy, dry looking poops, and loose ones mean they need more bone. Poops after an organ meal will be loose and dark colored from all that blood rich food, and they can smell a bit. Organs themselves smell a little too (I seriously hate the smell of liver :puke: ) so it makes sense. Here's a poop chart! Because organ meals can make loose poops, we feed a bone in meal after to even everything out, for example, I feed Wednesday am: Heart, and follow up Wednesday pm: duck wing/thigh/neck/spine. This leads to another point I would like to make; the detox phase. Switching a ferret over to a raw diet starts with detoxing for 2-3 weeks (this can last up to 5 as each ferret is different) and during this detox you may notice some pretty different poops with some odd smells. This is just their body pushing out kibble toxins and adjusting to the wider variety and higher nutrients in their current diet. I promise this won't last forever! As you continue to feed raw, the smell will go down, the poops will be smaller, and they won't be as weird looking. This leads to a couple of effects of raw: Higher energy/ energy levels even out Super soft coats! And possibly grape tail! Grape tail (their tails smell like grape Kool-Aid) can happen to raw fed ferrets, and it can take a few weeks to a few months (so don't be disappointed if it doesn't happen right off the bat). It is pretty exciting to smell for the first time! The smell also comes and goes. Their raw food is safe to leave out! Guidelines: Soup: 6-8 hours Grinds: 8-12 hours Chunks: 10-24 hours depending on the size (the bigger the chunks, the longer they last) Bone in meats: 12-24 hours, again depending on the size Whole prey: up to 48 hours
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Post by Aftershock on Jan 17, 2017 12:18:16 GMT -5
And MINI QUIZ TIME! (Yes, I'm bombarding you because I'm on my pc and remembered to ) Please list three organs aside from liver. Are leaner meats better for your ferret or fattier meats? In an emergency (you run out of bone), what are 2 acceptable bone substitutes and how much should your ferrets get? (be specific) What are some good emergency taurine sources if you run out of heart? Why is cooking meat generally considered inadvisable?
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