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Post by Heather on Jan 12, 2017 23:01:33 GMT -5
Application: Name: Michelle S. HF Forum Username: jaxandjazz77 Please confirm that you are 18 years of age or older: Yes - June 9, 1995. 1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? Through the Facebook group, Ferrets For Life. 2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret. For now, I would like to switch them to the Frankenprey diet but down the road I would like to add some whole prey and do a combination of Frankenprey / whole prey. 3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? Ferrets are obligate carnivores and I just want what is best and healthiest for them. 4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It requires a commitment of several months at minimum. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switching your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as committed. The switch takes time and effort every single day. It can also be extremely frustrating at times. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc), or limited time due to work, then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing and realistically able to make the necessary time commitment? I am quite busy with school and work but am willing to take the time to do this!!! It is worth it! 5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for? Jaxson (Jax): Male, around two years old. No health problems thus far. Average weight. I have had him since June 2015. Jazmine (Jazzy-poo): Female, around 1 1/2 years old. No health problems thus far. She's small but I wouldn't consider her underweight - vet said her weight was healthy. I have had her since September 2015. 6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) Do they already eat some form of soup? I currently feed them a mix of Orijen Cat and Kitten, NV Instinct Duck/Turkey and Wysong. They both get 1/4 tsp. of salmon oil every morning, and once a week a raw egg instead of the salmon oil. 7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? No. I tried giving them a mouse that I cut in half and they had no interest. 8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? 9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? Everyday. 10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible). Jaxson: Jazmine: 11. Do you have a scale sufficient to measure soup ingredients AND to regularly weigh your ferrets? Yes! 12. Have you met the requirements for this program? Are you at least 18 years of age? Do you have your scale, a place to access meats, hearts, livers, etc? Yes, yes, yes, and yes! Although the butcher here says I have to preorder things such as hearts and livers. TRANSITION THREAD: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/22063/get-eat-raw-soupHi and welcome to the mentoring program :wave3: . In a little while your mentor (Machan), will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 1:24:49 GMT -5
Hello @jaxandjazz77 ! I am Machan, I'll be your mentor for your raw transition. I have 4 ferrets currently, Haru, Yuuki, Beavis & Amy. I'm studying currently to become a Vet Nurse. I am from Victoria, Australia, so there may be a time difference. I do hope that won't be an issue. I tend to be quite active. You can read more about me on the Meet Your Mentor section here: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/21689/meet-mentorYou're also welcome to add me on Facebook. www.facebook.com/MachaamariThis post may be a little long, I am going to post all the necessary things first and then we can finally get started. With any transition, it needs to be done gradually. To start out with the transition, it would be fantastic to have a few photos of both Jasmine and Jaxson, one being a dangling photo where you hold them up and let the body dangle down loose like a tube shape and then a second photo from above (this one can be easy, let them eat some soup and grab a quick photo from a birds eye view angle ) The first couple of weeks of transitioning, you may notice some changes, such as smells or funky looking stools (These are simply a detox phase and pass after 2-6 weeks or so), difference in the coat, and even energy levels. Throughout the transition I may give you some small lessons here and there along with some pop quizzes to make sure you're on the right track. (They'll be pretty simple, so don't worry about getting them right or wrong~) If you have any questions or concerns, don't hesitate to ask away~ To start out with, How are Jaxson, and Jazmine going currently? Talk to you soon!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 2:06:11 GMT -5
I just added you on Facebook! My name is Michelle. A little about myself - I am a junior and getting my Bachelor's degree in social work with a minor in sociology, specializing in gerontology, with a focus on dementia. I work nights and weekends at a chain restaurant. My hobbies are Netflix and my ferrets (of course)! Here are the pictures that you asked for. Just a fair warning - my camera only gets good photos when on flash and even then they come out pretty awful. I temporarily have an old cheap phone and the camera is not great. Hopefully I will be getting my phone fixed shortly. And also I am not the best photographer, lol. Jazmine: image hosting freehow to take screenshotsJaxson: image searchpicture uploadingAnd the questionnaire: 1. Ferret's name: Jazmine. 2. Ferret's weight: 1 lb. 14.6 ounces. 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal: Kibble. 4. Stools on various proteins: N/A 5. Activity levels: She has generally been a little more sleepy the past few weeks (maybe because of winter) but when she is up she's very active and digging away in her rice box! 6. Weekly menu: Kibble (50% Orijen Cat and Kitten, 35% Wysong Digestive Support, 15% NV Instinct Duck/Turkey). A little salmon oil 6 days out of the week in the mornings, and a raw egg one day a week in the morning. An occasional freeze dried chicken treat. 1. Ferret's name: Jaxson. 2. Ferret's weight: 2 lbs 10.0 ounces. 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal: Kibble with just a few licks of raw chicken grinds. 4. Stools on various proteins: N/A 5. Activity levels: (Same as Jazmine): He has generally been a little more sleepy the past few weeks (maybe because of winter) but when he is up he's very active and hoarding his crinkle toys or bullying his sister. 6. Weekly menu: Kibble (50% Orijen Cat and Kitten, 35% Wysong Digestive Support, 15% NV Instinct Duck/Turkey). A little salmon oil 6 days out of the week in the mornings, and a raw egg one day a week in the morning. An occasional freeze dried chicken treat. Instead of raw soup I have been using Rad Cat Raw Grinds which I learned about from holisticferretforum.com/natural-diet/raw-and-whole-prey-providers/. It is about the consistency of the soup but I add a little extra water. Good to know how long raw food is safe for. Always saw contradicting times for that! So far Jaxson seems to be the only one taking to the mince (which I expected in the beginning - Jazmine is SO picky! She's a princess)! So far the only progress I have made is a few licks from Jaxson from the spoon. I have been attempting to give them the raw mince every day this week so far. For Jax, if I put a little bit of salmon oil in with the mince it will get a couple licks from him - but after that he is done and wants nothing to do with it! I am pretty sure he is just licking off the salmon oil but still gets licks of the mince because he makes that "YUCK" face. Jazmine will go no where near the mince. I have tried taking her kibble away, putting salmon oil in it, and when that didn't work I ground up some of the freeze dried chicken and sprinkled it over - but she still runs away whenever I try to offer it (from my finger and the spoon!) I look forward to working with you! Xx
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 3:36:14 GMT -5
I saw your friend request. I've seen you around Ferrets For Life I think! (I started admining there.) Wow bachelor's degree, that's impressive. You will feel very accomplished once you get it for sure. Those photos are such bad quality hahaha! But they'll do. Jasmin has laser eyes going on. Both of them look fluffy with those winter coats~ It's currently summer where I am. I'm envious over those fluffy coats! I'm impressed that you found Rad Cat! Those will make a good alternative to the raw soup. You're welcome to use those as you transition. Have you looked around your area for any potential raw meat suppliers? I found it tends to be helpful to write down lists. Raw in general is safe to leave out for a period of time. Sometimes more, sometimes less. It just depends on the size and type of raw. It also depends on the season and weather. If it's hot, you tend to want to remove or replace the raw to make sure it is fresh and doesn't spoil or go off. Ferrets are quite smart and won't touch anything that will make them sick. They tend to just steer clear in a sense, yet they are totally fine with munching on home made ferret jerky from their stashes. (sigh... haha) I'm happy to hear you've already tried introducing the raw. Go Jaxson! Even if he's showing a little interest and has even tried some, I consider that fantastic progress! I'm sure Jazmine will eventually warm up to the new food. It's all new to them, new tastes, new sight, new smells, new textures. It does take time for them to adjust and realize "oh this is food and oh, I actually like this stuff." Continue with trying the raw everyday. Sit with them for an hour or so and do some hand feeding sessions. As I say quite alot, it comes down to repetition and persistence. The more you hand feed it, or expose them to the raw, the more likely they will be to quickly adjust. I look forward to hearing all about Jax and Jaz on their progress~ You're more than welcome to talk as much as you want about them, I quite enjoy hearing about ferrets. They are all unique and have these amazing personalities. See you later~~!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 4:23:46 GMT -5
Ooh yes, I love their winter coats! Jazmine is so fluffy right now, and Jax's belly hair is finally starting to grow back in so he'll be just as fluffy soon. (dance) So far I've just bought the chicken and lamb Rad Cat Raw and just recently ordered some turkey. There's a lot of chicken in the kibble that they are currently eating and I buy freeze dried chicken treats so I figured chicken was a good place to start. Should I not even bother trying the lamb grinds until they start eating the chicken ones? I have a bookmark list of potential raw meat suppliers on my computer. I'm having kind of a hard time finding the "rare" meat (such as rabbit, quail, etc.) but have a few good places for the classics such as chicken, beef, and turkey. I may have to order some things from My Pet Carnivore or Hare Today Gone Tomorrow. Jaxson and I have a very special bond. I think he trusts me a lot so getting him to have a few licks from my finger isn't too hard, but once he starts really tasting it he doesn't want it anymore. (giggle) Do you think that adding warm water to the grinds may entice them more instead of serving it fresh cold? Just one more thing I would like to address is the proper time to fast them from their kibble before introducing raw. I've heard that you are supposed to wait 4 hours before serving raw after they eat kibble and then another 4 hours before you put their kibble back to prevent bacterial problems. I am just wondering, as Jaxson is only having a couple licks and not eating a full raw meal, can I return his kibble back to him after having a few licks sooner than the 4 hours? I've been putting his kibble back after an hour or so of a couple licks. I would just feel bad removing his kibble for a full 8 hours just for a couple licks of the mince. I am also wondering if the 4 hour fasting period between kibble and raw would best be served while they were awake so they build up an appetite. I usually cave in and return kibble about an hour after Jazmine has been awake without kibble and refusing the mince. Sorry for all the questions, I tend to ask a lot.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 6:42:09 GMT -5
Chicken does make a good starter protein. You're more than welcome to purchase the lamb grinds if you would like. It doesn't hurt to have different proteins available. For now it may be best to use chicken as the starting protein until they are fully on the raw, then we take them off the kibble and start introducing the newer protein types. With raw, it is best to try proteins one at a time. This way it makes it easier to pin point issue proteins when you first start out- if of course, your ferrets show to have sensitivities with a protein. I'm sure they will be fine though. Fun fact: Chicken apparently is one of the most well known proteins to cause sensitivities in ferrets. I'll talk about sensitivities at a later date. It's great that you have already looked into sources for raw and have a bookmaked list. When you do find you have issues locating certain types of proteins or types of raw (muscle, organ or bone in meat), you can also check out asian markets, meat markets, or ask local butchers if they are able to order in meats. Using online sources like hare today and my pet carnivore is fantastic. You don't have to worry too much about sources at this stage, you can gradually get into searching for those later on, but great work on already having a good idea on sources already. Ferret bonds are amazing, not just with other ferrets but the ones they form with people and owners too. It is awesome to hear how much he really trusts you. ;u; You could potentially add warm water to the grinds if you would like. Just make sure it is not hot, otherwise the meat may cook. Another method of warming meat slightly is to place it in a zip lock bag and place it in a warm bowl of water for a couple of minutes before serving. I recommend removing / replacing kibble / raw around 2-3 hours before feeding the other food. Generally you want to aim for the same time as their digestive track (which is roughly 3-4 hours, sometimes less.) There is only anecdotal evidence that feeding the two types of foods close together may potentially increase the risk of bacterial over growths in the gut of the ferret. If you find that both ferrets are eating barely any raw, you can replace with kibble earlier if you would like. It shouldn't be too much of an issue. You're also welcome to feed in between meals if you would like to give more exposure to the raw. It would be ideal to pick a time to remove the kibble and feed the raw. I find that the best time to feed the raw would be after a playtime. For example, if you remove the kibble and allow them to play for 2-3 hours, then follow up with hand feeding the raw. After a long play, they may be exhausted and hungry so hopefully more willing to try the raw. It is also completely fine to go at your own pace, as well as Jazmine and Jaxson's pace. Also don't be sorry for asking questions~ I'm your mentor, ask me as many questions as you would like, I don't mind.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 15:36:04 GMT -5
Okay thanks for all the good info, that really cleared up some of the confusion I was having! This morning I went grocery shopping and found some quail eggs. Decided to get those instead of the normal ones I've been using. Should I still only give them once a week? (they're so tiny, lol). Jazmine went crazy over the quail eggs! She seems to like them a lot better than the chicken eggs. I put a little yolk in the mince this morning to trick her and I got one lick from her. Only one little lick but that's more than I've gotten so far so I may mix the mince with the egg yolk instead of salmon oil if that's alright! Just a teeny bit of the egg yolk though as I know too much egg is not good. If I crack an egg, how long would the yolk be good for if kept in the fridge? I was thinking instead of giving a whole egg once a week I could crack it and spread it out throughout the week if that's possible. Also, how long are quail eggs good for in general stored in the fridge? I bought a pack of 15, so if I used 2 a week (1 per ferret), I'd have them in the fridge for about 7 weeks total. I am working a double shift tomorrow (noon-midnight) so I don't think I'll be able to work on the mince then. As much as I am dreading school (starting Tuesday), it really does clear up a lot of my schedule as I'll be home doing homework instead of at work everyday so hopefully we'll be making real progress soon!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 20:02:24 GMT -5
ooh~ Quail eggs~ Good find! With chicken eggs, we tend to recommend 1-2 eggs per week / per ferret. (That is around 3-4 eggs shedding season per week / per ferret.) Since quail eggs are smaller you could probably get away with 3-4 per week per week per ferret and 5-6 in shedding season per week per ferret. Quail eggs make wonderful treats. I have heard that quail eggs are a a little more richer in taste than chicken eggs, due to the fact that they have a bigger yolk to white ratio than chicken eggs. Taste wise, they aren't really all that different from chicken eggs. Quail eggs tend to weight around 9g, whereas the chicken eggs are about 50g. When compared side by side, chicken tends to be higher in protein and other nutrients due to the size. However if we fed enough quail eggs to make up 50g like a chicken egg, you'll find that they aren't all that different when it comes to nutrients. (That doesn't change the fact that they are still fantastic to feed~) I'm glad to hear Jazmine enjoyed her quail eggs! I love watching ferrets lap up their egg, it's kind of relaxing. As long as you feed around the amount of eggs mentioned earlier for the week, you don't need to worry about feeding too much egg. I like to personally use egg in organ meals and mince meals also. I find that the egg helps to add flavor, especially to organ meals. If you find that using egg to entice them for the mince, feel free to do so. You're also more than welcome to blend up both egg whites and egg yolks. The entire egg itself is considered balanced and highly nutritious when fed as a whole. Eggs out of the shell will usually stay good for 2 to 4 days in the fridge and one year in the freezer. Freezing can change the textures of the egg, so I only recommend freezing the egg if you've pre-blended it. Frozen egg makes a good refreshing treat on hot days. If the eggs are within the shell I have heard that they can last around 5-7 weeks in the fridge. These tend to apply for all types of eggs. Since you have quail eggs you're more than welcome to feed more than 2 per ferret per week. Though you could potentially crack the egg and spread it throughout the week, it may be better just to have multiple eggs. (eg. Feed 1 egg between ferrets at the start of the week, one in the middle and/or one at the end of the week between ferrets.) < That's how I do it rather than a whole bunch at one sitting. Since we're still on the early stages of the transition, you can go at your own pace. Don't worry too much if you find you may not be able to work with the mince some nights. You can try again another day and keep working at your own pace until they are completely on raw. It should be a h*ll of a lot easier for you once they are on raw!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 1:59:05 GMT -5
Just a little update from today. My parents come over to my place this morning to drive me for some errands. They came over a little bit earlier than I was expecting so they had to wait and watch me while I was finishing up with ferret "duties". After about a half hour of unsuccessful luck (mixing the mince with salmon oil, rubbing some on their gums, trying to get them to lick it off my fingers, the spoon, etc.) Jazmine went to bed. I was still working on Jax when my father asked why I didn't just use an eyedropper. This sparked an idea and I filled up a syringe with the liquid from the mince. I offered it to Jax and he took to it immediately. After having a little from the syringe I tried a spoon and again, he lapped it right up. He had about a full tablespoon (I wish I had measured it so I could get an exact amount - I wasn't expecting him to eat so much so I didn't). He probably would have had more but I was feeling a little bit rushed by my parents (and I had work later that day) so eventually I put him back in his cage and left. I am just wondering if I could try to do this with Jazmine to get her acquainted to the taste as she isn't taking to a spoon or my finger at all. Jax is used to the syringe because he just had surgery a couple months ago and I had to give him meds and Carnivore Care with it multiple times throughout the day. I am pretty familiar with using a syringe and I know not to shove it down their throats and how to use it properly, lol. I was also wondering, I saw that I am supposed to fill out the questionnaire every Sunday/Monday. Would you like me to fill another one out today/tomorrow or wait until next Sunday/Monday as I just filled one out the other day?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 7:11:13 GMT -5
It's fantastic to hear you found a creative way to coax them to have some of the meat and that Jax was super willing! You can go for this methods for sure with Jazmine. Yeah, force feeding with syringes have to be done a certain way otherwise the throat and mouth can have damage done. You don't need to put it in their mouths, allow them to willingly lick from it, then move on to a spoon like you tried before. That's actually a good step process. You don't have to worry about the questionnaire until the Sunday/Monday since you did filled one out when we started. ^^ Good work with Jazmine and Jaxson!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 13:16:32 GMT -5
This morning I had absolutely no luck again with Jazmine. She is really proving to be difficult. (headwall) Jaxson had .4 ounces of the mince mixed with water (I didn't mix with salmon oil or egg this morning). I have to offer him the syringe first, and then the spoon. After he is done with what is on the spoon he runs away and won't use the spoon again, so it's a cycle right now between the syringe and spoon, lol. But hey, it's progress! Just thought I'd upload a pic of what the consistency of the mince/water is. picture uploaderI suck up a little bit of the juice with the syringe and then feed the little bits of meat off the spoon. Seems to be working so far! I will be trying over the next few days to get him comfortable with just the spoon. And I will be working extra hard on Princess Jazmine...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 14:09:46 GMT -5
I also forgot to ask, once defrosted, how long would the mince/water mix be good for in the fridge?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2017 6:25:06 GMT -5
Don't stress if you find you have some difficulties. They can happen when you transition but as long as you stay persistent, you'll eventually get them liking the food. Jazmine sounds like my little girl Haru. Haru was quite stubborn also! (Oh joy, stubborn ferrets are really something!) You've made great progress with Jaxson that's for sure. Even the smallest progress is still good progress. ^^ I would say that mince soup should be okay for a couple of days in the fridge if you store it in an air tight sealed container.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 22:13:37 GMT -5
Here's my update! I am supposed to update every 2 days, right? Lol. I wasn't able to work on them yesterday because it was the first day of the semester and I was running all over the place trying to get prepared. Today I decided to give them a break and make their soup tasty and fun, trying to spark Jazmine's interest also. I mixed .2 ounces of the mince, 1 teaspoon warm water, and 1/4 teaspoon of salmon oil. And magic! Lol. Jazmine was eating it on her own right from the bowl. Jaxson did too. Probably because all of the salmon oil. They are salmon oil fiends! adult photo sharingupload pngExcuse my bare mattress, I'm washing my sheets and blankets now. Anyways, I think my plan is to stop giving them salmon oil as a treat and really only use it in their soups (at least until they start eating the soup without a mixer). I give them 1/4 teaspoon 4 times a week, so I think every time I make them the soup with the salmon oil I will increase the amount of the mince by .1 or .2 ounces and keep the amount of water at 1 teaspoon and salmon oil at 1/4 teaspoon. Congrats on the new fuzzie by the way! He is adorable. (dance)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2017 20:04:18 GMT -5
Sorry for late reply. I was suppose to reply last night but got a little busy.
You're welcome to post every couple of days if it suits you. Frequent posts do help me get a better understanding with where you're at switch wise. ^^
Next week is gonna be busy for me. (We named little floof, Shunji. He's a ball of energetic happiness hehe!) I think I'm gonna understand running all over the place getting prepared too. rofl! I start classes in two weeks. It's always end of year and new year which are most hectic.
Congrats on getting Jazmine eating on her own! Salmon oil does make a good oil for enticing ferrets for new foods. I'm glad it worked out for you. ^^
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