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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2011 21:43:40 GMT -5
I have an appointment monday for little sadie. She's been twigging my 'somethings not right' bell for a little bit, but nothing concrete. We got her in Oct, was told she was three, though i'd guess older by her teeth. She was super thin and on no name cat food. She has NEVER had lots of energy, and except for short spurts when the boys are playing (and she can kick some butt!) she wonders then finds a place to sleep. I had thought with switch to raw that might improve. no change. SHe is the oldest, the others are under 2 so not sure if it's an age thing. She's been a struggle on raw, refused to eat more then mush, no bones even after months of trying. She also had IBD that was uncontrollable, and she was loosing weight. For about 6/8 weeks we put her back on kibble, her stools stablized and weigh came back on. (no change in energy) Since Luna came she has shown an interest in raw again, and actually hasn't had kibble in a week. Her stools are good, and energy the same. The things that seem off (other then energy which is not a change, and her IB)..... when running she often runs into things. It reminded me a bit of our old dog who had cataracts, wondered if maybe she had issues with her vision. when sleeping (mostly not always) she twitches, none of the others do this. She has started doing it when not alseep as well. reminds me a bit of trixie She seems to have staring off into space moments. With the raw this time around, she seems to be gorging herself. To the point of vomiting the one day (no vomit since). She eats way more then you'd think her 1lb 10oz would hold lol (could just be the switch increase in appetite?) I had though adrenal (as a slightly engorged vulva always has) But now with the staring off I"m leaning towards Insulinoma. Trixie had both insulinoma and lyphoma so it's hard for me to say which symptoms came from which disease. Does this seem off to you? Does it seem something to be concerned about? It's no big change in her, it's just something is not right.
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Post by Heather on May 31, 2011 22:19:20 GMT -5
I rely heavily on gut feelings. If you feel she's having these issues, then having a BG is cheap and easy. I would be tempted considering the issues you've mentioned...the eating thing is weird though. I don't have a lot of experience with insulinoma fuzzes. Calypso was my first, and she had spinal cancer. Fun-Go is the next. He didn't do a lot of staring, he staggered and slept a lot. His appetite was poor. I find that the vague and sometimes inconsistent symptoms one of the most difficult things about diagnosing issues with ferrets. Unfortunately, I think it's because often we're dealing with more than one issue. A healing candle is lit for Sadie, good luck on Monday. Please keep us posted ciao
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Post by goingpostal on May 31, 2011 22:46:54 GMT -5
Well wait and see, I had thought maybe Craven was insulinomic, even before he was ours because when his owners visited with their ferrets he always seemed clumsy and rather lazy and thin. He's been thin the whole time I've had him but his energy level has improved a ton, although it still seems like he sleeps more, maybe because he's a deafie and sleeps through stuff, maybe because he is older. When we went to the vet last time though his BG was like 140. He also seems to stare off sometimes. My only insulinomic crashed hard when she did and showed no real obvious signs before but she turned out to have lymphoma as well. And her BG was quite low, 38 non fasted.
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Post by miamiferret2 on May 31, 2011 22:48:21 GMT -5
Take her in for a bg test on a 4 hour fast as soon as possible. anything under 90 is suspicious, under 80 highly suspicious and id say if it is under 70 she definitely has early stage insulinoma. I don't like to give meds during early stages and neither does my vet. You can manage with a high protein diet and frequent feedings (and checking bg once a week). However, it eventually gets to a point where diet alone won't help and that's when you start pediapred, diazoxide etc. What you describe does sound highly suspicious for early stage insulinoma. Any runny stools? I have never read anything about this, but i really think insulinoma caused vision problems. it could be that she has had some insulinoma seizures that she has come out of and it affected her vision. My insulinoma ferret would also gorge on food before he was officially diagnosed. He would space out too. So definitely take her in. If you must feed kibble, switch her to EVO, Go! or Orijen. Carnivore Care is excellent for insulinoma ferrets. I used to use something else in soupies but the name escapes me now. Let us know what happens.
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Post by miamiferret2 on May 31, 2011 22:51:06 GMT -5
Also, there are other illnesses that cause low bg. Insulinoma is the more common one obviously. Id ask for a cbc and get an xray.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2011 6:42:05 GMT -5
Miami, we did get her on Evo/origen mix. Yes she's had runny stools with every diet change ..... well except for this last attempt at raw it went really smooth. Would you know off hand the other illnesses that cause low BG?
What would be the benefit of starting the meds earlier, or is there any?
Heather I wondered too about it being more then one thing, as its kidda vague and crosses symptoms. Postal, did you find a cause for craven's behaviour?
thx ladies, I'll let you know what the vet says.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2011 6:50:46 GMT -5
Good luck at the vet, keep us posted. Hope everything is okay
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Post by miamiferret2 on Jun 1, 2011 7:43:51 GMT -5
Certain infections can lower bg. Pretty much any illnesses that cause a ferret to eat less than it normally should (or stop eating altogether) can cause blood glucose to drop. Also food absorption problems caused by gastrointestinal problems (like "IBD" which to me, 9 times out of 10, "ibd" is usually just an early sign of some other underlying illness that has yet to become full blown) which you can normally tell by the looks of their poop. With insulinoma, tumors in the pancreas cause it to over produce insulin and that lowers bg. But with infections, other illnesses, eating less, digestive/absorption problems, the bg lowers just as it does in normal people. However, most of the time when a ferret is older ( 3 yrs or more) and has eaten kibble and or sugary treats in his life, ongoing low bg issues are usually the result of insulinoma. Loose stools or diarrhea is a sign of insulinoma and let me tell you, it certainly doesn't help insulinoma when your ferret has diarrhea. Looks to me like your ferret should go in for a full work up. And NO FOOD at all for 4 hours before blood test.
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Post by miamiferret2 on Jun 1, 2011 7:54:10 GMT -5
To me starting meds earlier just means that your ferret's insulinoma tumors will become unresponsive to the meds sooner. The tumors are there regardless of medications. They are tiny and spread everywhere in the pancreas. The meds are used when the tumors get to a point that they are just producing so much insulin that your ferrets bg is not manageable with diet alone. So, this is why (unless bg is below 70) I don't treat with meds right off the bat. I try to manage with frequent feedings of high protein, high fat diet. So I would feed about every 5 hours (force feed if necessary). That sucks because I would wake up in the middle of the night and come home from work in the middle of the day but you do what you can.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2011 14:38:25 GMT -5
APpointment with vet was today. A few surprises..... First when we got Sadie they said she was 3.... I figured she was likely 4/5..... vet says she is likely closer to EIGHT! poor girl aged 5 yrs today! Second vet found that all her lymph nodes are enlarged and even if she does have early stages of insulinoma, what we are looking at is lymphoma.
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Post by Sherry on Jun 6, 2011 14:56:00 GMT -5
Oh, no! I'm so sorry
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2011 18:33:44 GMT -5
Gosh I'm so sorry ;(
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Post by miamiferret2 on Jun 6, 2011 19:29:15 GMT -5
So sorry. Is she going on pred?
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Post by Heather on Jun 6, 2011 21:33:45 GMT -5
Oh, I'm so sorry. She can still have quality of life. Aremis was good for about a year. He had periods where the disease would get the better of him and then he would pick up and be ok, albeit often weak. His best friend, Fun-Go often looked out for him or took time from heavy play to spend time with him Aremis was about 5 or 6 when he was diagnosed, a bit younger than your girl but if she is of good spirit there is always hope. Good luck ciao
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Post by Sherry on Jun 6, 2011 22:07:50 GMT -5
Those are some really sweet pictures, Heather.
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