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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2016 12:17:24 GMT -5
So.. I took in a ferret a few months ago. We've battled with pretty consistent diarrhea off and on for most of those months. I tried a couple different foods. Tried raw (chicken, which doing reading here may have been an issue). A couple weeks back we did a round of amox and metron and pepto (thinking possibly helicobacter as well). Things improved some. We did the meds for 2 weeks. A couple days after the end he declined again. I asked for a refill because everything I could research said 3-4 weeks of medication because the bacteria is resistant. Vet opted for blood work. The day he was supposed to have it done he was beyond weak. I ended up taking him in 5 hrs early for a round of fluids. We went home with metron, amox, pepto, and cimetidine (per my request because dark stool). 3 days later we went back for another round of fluids and he got his blood work. Low BG and something else was off (I can't remember what, but it pointed to IBD).
During this whole time period, I've been working on moving him over to the RX diet she recommended. Hills Prescription Diet Digestive Care i/d.
After the blood tests, we added in Pred. A couple says after that he's back to solid stools. He sleeps a lot, but he's also weak and still skinny from the struggles.
Now .. What I'm worried about is that if it IS insulinoma, isn't the RX diet going to make controlling that worse? What are the chances his BG was low just from malabsorption?
Also, after looking over the protein lists in the IBD thread, I'm pretty sure I can get my hands on goat and lamb. There's plenty of halal meat shops local-ish to me.
I've also already gotten my deer tags for the year, and I hope to fill both of them
Riley has no issues eating raw. Bones, guts, and all. Which surprised me. I didn't have to do anything special other than run some chicken thru the food processor. My other ferret just won't touch it. But, oddly enough, I got him moved to Orijen dog food a few days ago because the first half or more list of ingredients is protein sources. He likes it. And I just ordered taurine to supplement him with. I wish he'd eat raw. The last bunch of ferrets I had took work, but all got moved to raw.
Anyways... My real question is goose. How does that stack up IBD/allergen wise? Its a protein source thats huntable all year round here. They're over abundant. And I know at least one guy at work has some in his freezer right now.
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Post by Heather on Nov 7, 2016 14:12:26 GMT -5
Most of us can't afford goose....at least here. To buy a goose is $100. It's just not happening. Goose should be a good protein, it is very fatty so remove a lot of the excess fats before feeding, especially to a possible IBD ferret. How often do you feed per day? and are you hand feeding or just letting him eat on his own. The pred will also help (at least temporarily) with his IBD type symptoms as that is used for acute stages. You will have to watch as pred does aggravate ulcers. I would be tempted to ask for sucralfate/carafate if you're going to be using pred to control the insulinoma. ciao
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Post by maja01 on Nov 7, 2016 16:13:54 GMT -5
How old is a ferret? Have you done fecal exam? Before treating for IBD or food sensitivities, rule the parasites out.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2016 21:40:40 GMT -5
Fecal was done on his first visit. No parasites. I was told he is about 4. And, I dont intend to buy goose from a shop. I'll either hunt it, or buy from a local hunter.
I'll have to research that med. Cemetidine is an antacid, though.
Currently, IBD (or helicobacter) symptoms are under control. But, they were under control last time too, until the meds stopped.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2016 7:14:18 GMT -5
Albumin. Thats what the other test was. Liver and kidney functions tested fine.
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Post by Sherry on Nov 8, 2016 10:39:46 GMT -5
It is entirely possible he could have both IBD and insulinoma. Generally IBD won't cause a low BG by itself. I would have another done to confirm and treat for insu if it comes back below 70 again. Pred for IBD needs to be high dose to reduce inflammation for about a month and taper off. He will need carafate/sulfate as well to help prevent ulcers from the pred, or at least a small amount of food prior. After that (avoid chicken in the meantime) you can look at treating possible IBD via diet.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2016 11:05:44 GMT -5
So, the antacid alone isn't good enough to avoid ulcers? I can make a call and see about swapping that out for the other. Doesn't break my heart since he gags over the cemetidine anyways..
Also, sorry. I just realized I never answered how often he's fed. He has a bowl of kibble 24/7. But he's also getting nutrical and/or furrovite and/or carnivore care 3-5 times a day as well. He was pretty shakey when I woke him up for meds this morning. Looked like he hadn't gotten up to eat over night, so he got some of all three.
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Post by Heather on Nov 8, 2016 11:49:52 GMT -5
Carnivore care is great....nutrical is just sugar and shouldn't be fed. We often refer to it as insulinoma in a tube. Nutrical: Corn Syrup, Soybean Oil, Malt Syrup, Water, Fish Oil, Cane Molasses, Sodium Propionate, Gelatin By-Products, Silicon Dioxide, Potassium Sorbate, dl-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E Supplement), Xanthan Gum, Magnesium Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate Heptahydrate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine Hydrochloride, Niacin Supplement, d-Panthenol (source of Pantothenic Acid), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Potassium Iodide (source of Iodine and Potassium), Vitamin A Palmitate, Folic Acid, Riboflavin 5-Phosphate Sodium (source of Vitamin B2 and Phosphorus) and Vitamin D Supplement.
I would definitely stop using this. The carnivore care is much better for him. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2016 20:51:50 GMT -5
Awesommmmmmme. Looks like I'll be ordering more carnivore care. It seems like my vet really isn't versed in managing insulinoma. I know it was given because he was down to 1.4 lbs. But then she also told me that I really couldn't over sugar him right noe either... Which i read after is totally wrong. I figured the nutrical was kind of okay because its high protein too. Oops.
Also, got home to day to find out he's back to liquid poo. I'm wondering if its just because he didn't eat yesterday and today and just had carnivore care..
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 20:39:26 GMT -5
Well, I found pancreatin annnnd fresh lamb today. Guess who's back to eating? I gave him a chunk of fresh lamb off my finger. Which,btw, woke him right up out of a dead sleep when I put it under his nose. He inhaled it. I went back to get him more and he was eating the kibble. Until the lamb went back in. So, i finished breaking it down. Added his probiotic to it. And the pancreatin. And taurine. Now it smells funny, but, I let it rest together for a bit and he ate a bit more of it. I'm hoping its the taurine or probiotic that made it smell. I can give him them separately, but the pancreatin is supposed to sit on the food.
Never mind. I just went and double checked and he ate roughly 3/4s of the lamb. Woo!
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Post by Sherry on Nov 11, 2016 12:02:15 GMT -5
It is the pancreatin that gives it that smell
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2016 22:23:15 GMT -5
Weird. I didn't add the taurine to his morning meal, just the pancreatin, and it had no smell. Either way, he's eating it. I got a chop that was about a half a pound. There was one small bone in it. I gave him tonights meal.. And he has now eaten all but maybe 5% of the meat. He likes it enough that the smell of it wakes him up.
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Post by Sherry on Nov 12, 2016 13:21:37 GMT -5
Work up to having the pancreatin sitting on the meat for up to 12 hours. Warning as it does change texture, smell, and taste so some are resistant unless worked up gradually. With my IBD guy I froze his meals in single portions with the pancreatin mixed in. That way I would take it out about 12 hrs before next mealtime and defrost in fridge.
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Post by unclejoe on Nov 12, 2016 21:33:57 GMT -5
I'm so glad that after reading this whole thread he's eating proteins. Definitely ditch the nutrical. Sherry, et al are right, BG measurements are most reliable as averages, and should be taken when fasting a few hours.
Pepcid slows the production of stomach acid. I don't think it's necessary unless there is an ulcer present or evidence of overproduction of gastric acid. sulcrafate acts like pepto and coats the digestive tract. if either are given unnecessarily it can lead to malabsorption, no? I just hate overmedicating, not least because it's such a chore
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2016 16:11:13 GMT -5
We were doing good.. But today he's hardly touched breakfast. However, my day started really early. And I didn't really wake him up to eat like I usually do. I just got back from work and got him up and going. I'm hoping he doesn't decide to go off the lamb too.
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