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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2016 10:45:55 GMT -5
@morgan2247 - I took a 2am trip to Walmart and bought 4 Cornish Game Hens (crossing my fingers these will be good for her, don't know what I'll do with them otherwise haha). I got her to eat some bigger pieces of the beef stew meat as well, so for her AM meal today I was going to feed her beef stew meat without her soup. Now that I have CGHens, do I need to try chicken ever again? I'm not against it because she vomited, but isn't the CGH better for her anyway? I can give chicken another try in a week if I need to. Is CGH similar to chicken in that I need to wait a week before introducing her to it? Also, I presume she can eat the bones in a CGH. I read here: holisticferretforum.com/natural-diet/raw-diet-the-meat-of-the-site/basic-frankenprey-menu/ that I can give her any/all CGH bones. I'm not sure how to section the Hen itself? I could guess wings and legs, but after that I'm useless (I've never dealt with whole 'carcasses' before...). Can I just cut the Hen up any which way, leaving meat on the bones and giving it to her in sections? I'm realising now that I have basically no options for bone-in meals right now besides CGH (headwall) I'm still banking on finding quail and duck on the 12th, it would be wonderful to also find turkey necks or rabbit. More than likely I'll have to order in turkey necks, duck necks, etc. from Hare Today. For now, I know it's a poor and very temporary substitute, but when I have her on whole pieces or other protein grinds, could I put powdered eggshell in with her ground meat until I get in the actual bone-in pieces? Sorry for the wall of text - I never seem to run out of questions The Cornish game hen legs will be to dense for her. Remember weight bearing bones are to thick for ferrets. You can try the Cornish game hen tonight. It is basically a smaller chicken but sometimes ferrets can digest better than chicken so it is worth a try. Also remember you have to buy at least 10 pounds of food from Hare Today as well. You can purchase more than 10 pounds I think it goes to 50 pounds you can buy at a time.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2016 10:50:51 GMT -5
abbeytheferret6 - Thank you so much for the video!! I'm not vegetarian, I just really don't like chicken! (I ate too much of it in Asia and I got sick from it...I'm in the same boat as Piper haha)I can always find someone to give it to if she's sensitive to the CGH! So I did something incredibly stupid today and left my breakfast on the floor next to my futon. It was a small, pretty much empty container of Icelandic skyr...I couldn't tell if she actually 'tried' any or not, it didn't look like it at all. I'm still kind of worried that she got some and that she'll get sick later. The ingredients on the container are: Pasteurized Skim Milk, Organic Agave Nectar, Madagascar Bourbon Vanilla, and Live Active Cultures (B. lactis, L. acidophilus, L. delbrueckii subsp. bulgaricus, L. delbrueckii subsp. lactis, S. thermophilus). I'll be monitoring her stools over the next couple of hours. She ate some beef stew meat without soup this morning, then I noticed the container. Crossing my fingers she didn't get into it, but she's a ferret so...there's no telling. Should I give her something in the meantime? Also! The ground meat I found was at the local health food store...it was for human consumption*, so would it still have bone ground up in it? *I checked the packaging on it and it was just pure meat. Everything was "free-range" or "grass-fed" as well. Labels on the package said "organic" and "no additives"! Don't beat yourself up for the breakfast thing. She should be fine. Keep an eye on her, my Nala gets into everything. I try to keep things away from her but sometimes I have failed. She had chocolate ice cream a couple weeks ago, not a whole lot but she did have some. I asked her if she had a death wish lol sometimes I think she does. Just don't make a habit of letting her have that kind of food and stick with the meat If she is still hungry give her more beef stew meat. The ground meat at the store probably won't have bone in it, unless it says it's a grind with meat. Most of the time the pet food suppliers are the only ones that sell grinds (muscle meat, bone, organs). The organic food store likely is only muscle meat.
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Post by Aftershock on Aug 5, 2016 13:22:42 GMT -5
@morgan2247 - I took a 2am trip to Walmart and bought 4 Cornish Game Hens (crossing my fingers these will be good for her, don't know what I'll do with them otherwise haha). I got her to eat some bigger pieces of the beef stew meat as well, so for her AM meal today I was going to feed her beef stew meat without her soup. Now that I have CGHens, do I need to try chicken ever again? I'm not against it because she vomited, but isn't the CGH better for her anyway? I can give chicken another try in a week if I need to. Is CGH similar to chicken in that I need to wait a week before introducing her to it? Also, I presume she can eat the bones in a CGH. I read here: holisticferretforum.com/natural-diet/raw-diet-the-meat-of-the-site/basic-frankenprey-menu/ that I can give her any/all CGH bones. I'm not sure how to section the Hen itself? I could guess wings and legs, but after that I'm useless (I've never dealt with whole 'carcasses' before...). Can I just cut the Hen up any which way, leaving meat on the bones and giving it to her in sections? I'm realising now that I have basically no options for bone-in meals right now besides CGH (headwall) I'm still banking on finding quail and duck on the 12th, it would be wonderful to also find turkey necks or rabbit. More than likely I'll have to order in turkey necks, duck necks, etc. from Hare Today. For now, I know it's a poor and very temporary substitute, but when I have her on whole pieces or other protein grinds, could I put powdered eggshell in with her ground meat until I get in the actual bone-in pieces? Sorry for the wall of text - I never seem to run out of questions The Cornish game hen legs will be to dense for her. Remember weight bearing bones are to thick for ferrets. You can try the Cornish game hen tonight. It is basically a smaller chicken but sometimes ferrets can digest better than chicken so it is worth a try. Also remember you have to buy at least 10 pounds of food from Hare Today as well. You can purchase more than 10 pounds I think it goes to 50 pounds you can buy at a time. One thing I will point out that got pointed out to me by my mentor is that Cornish game hen is a juvenile animal, so the bones aren't as good on calcium. CGH should be served more as an occasional meal, not a main bone in meal. Piperskeeper, do you happen to have an Albertson's near you? I ended up being able to get them to order in Turkey necks for me.
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Post by Aftershock on Aug 5, 2016 15:44:27 GMT -5
Aftershock - Darn. Didn't know that I can't afford to be spending money on meat she can't really eat as a main meal right now so it's frustrating to hear, is the meat still good for her as a muscle meal at least? My town has two local-name grocery stores and a health food store, none of them are willing to order meat or other parts in...My university butcher is also strictly beef and pork. I'm going into town August 12th to look for quail and such. Adult quail bone-in pieces can be used as a bone-in meal, right? And adult ducks? I will ask a contact in that town if they can go to Albertson's and ask if they'd be willing to order in turkey or duck necks. In the meantime, she's eating whole pieces of beef stew now, I'm sure she won't have much of a problem with the CGH meat (assuming I can feed her the meat and it's good for her) and I will make her an organ soup...How do I go about getting calcium in her until I get bone-in meals for her? Do I need to just keep feeding her soup? I understand completely. This same thing got brought up to me just the other day, so I have three game hens all cut up and bagged in my freezer. Honestly, that's pretty much your only option for bone in right now, right? I'd keep using it until you can find other sources. But keep in mind that it shouldn't be a main bone in. Quail is fantastic, and also duck. And I'm also excited to see that you have a contact near an Albertson's. The soup thing honestly is more confusing to me than anything, my boys skipped it and went straight past it. I've always had the mindset that they will be offered what I feed them how it is first, then go from there. A few things to know right now, you are NOT a failure, you are doing a great job. And take a deep breath, it's okay. I promise. I have a couple of questions for you, did you consider applying for a mentor? And do you have a weekly meal plan that you could post up? I ask about the mentor deal because doing the initial switch can be confusing and frustrating. I ended up at the point that I was stressing and crying about it thinking that I was the worst ferrent in the world, applied for a mentor, and BAM! Things are sorted out now! Oh, another question, is raising mice an option for you? With your limited access to different meats, mice might be a good option for you.
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Post by Aftershock on Aug 5, 2016 18:01:51 GMT -5
It's totally okay! My mentors didn't catch it until they went to get my menu approved by an admin! I don't see it hurting, just watch her poops. If they get too hard/powdery ease up on the eggshell. Albertson's is a lifesaver for sure. I ended up getting a 30lb box of Turkey necks from them for like $50. Ack, those first switch stools are scary! I'm glad she is eating the beef well though, what a good girl! You're very welcome! And I'm so happy to hear you applied! The mentors are awesome! You have the weekly meal outline, right? I'd start by making a menu for what you have right now. My first menu was embarrassing and heavy in CGH, but it will help you figure out where you can make changes and help you feel less overwhelmed. And it's totally okay if you can't raise mice! I was just asking out of the convienice.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2016 18:06:44 GMT -5
The Cornish game hen legs will be to dense for her. Remember weight bearing bones are to thick for ferrets. You can try the Cornish game hen tonight. It is basically a smaller chicken but sometimes ferrets can digest better than chicken so it is worth a try. Also remember you have to buy at least 10 pounds of food from Hare Today as well. You can purchase more than 10 pounds I think it goes to 50 pounds you can buy at a time. One thing I will point out that got pointed out to me by my mentor is that Cornish game hen is a juvenile animal, so the bones aren't as good on calcium. CGH should be served more as an occasional meal, not a main bone in meal. Piperskeeper, do you happen to have an Albertson's near you? I ended up being able to get them to order in Turkey necks for me. My mentor never mentioned that to me. I was going to use that as a main bone in meal for Shelby when she had an allergic reaction to chicken. I was told the Cornish game hen was similar to a chicken but ferrets who have issues with chicken sometimes are okay with game hen.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2016 18:15:15 GMT -5
It seems every time I have something figured out about ferrets, everything gets turned on its head Is it possible to put eggshell powder on the CGH bone-in pieces until I can get her turkey/duck necks/quail? I found out that my contact HAS seen turkey necks at the Albertson's before in the meat section, but they're going to see about getting me a few packages of it if possible. I also know the owner of the Asian Market in that town and I could get her to order me quail and duck if for some reason they ran out of it. Piper is the same way with soup sometimes - we didn't need a soup for chicken, we did need soup for the beef stew meat which she eats whole now, and she ate pork straight but had an explosive stool...Such a finicky little creature Thank you for the kind words! I applied for a mentor about a week and a half ago I think? Just waiting now! As for the weekly meal plan...yes...and no. I was just introducing her to eating the beef stew meat whole and was feeding her chicken wingettes and she was eating the whole bone, but then she started vomiting chicken...then you gave me the CGH news...Kind of threw my 'menu' off haha I don't know where to go from here? I've been feeding her chicken soup/chicken wingettes and beef soup/beef stew meat since I started in July. Should I introduce her to one of the proteins from the health food store now? I can get lamb shoulder or ground lamb, turkey, elk, bison, buffalo, or deer (human-grade, no organs or bones in it). I wanted to try her on the ground deer next, but I'm worried about her taste for deer and her teeth... Here is what my thought is (I know this is so off... ): Friday AM: Beef Stew meat (eaten ~2oz) Friday PM: CGH with bones (w/ added eggshell powder??) Saturday AM: CGH with bones (w/ added eggshell powder??) Saturday PM: Beef stew meat (or try a completely new protein) Sunday AM: CGH with bones (w/ added eggshell powder - OR - a beef soup) Sunday PM: Beef heart soup ... As for the mice. I would love to get to the point I could feed Piper whole mice, but I've got a couple problems... The first, is I'm pretty sure my landlord would evict me on the spot if she found out I was raising mice in the apartment (a funny picture even so ) and the second is myself. I love rodents a lot, and while feeding frozen/pre-dead doesn't bother me, having to...kill them or watch a live one be killed, especially after having basically watched them grow up...makes me feel very uncomfortable...I'm just not to the point I can handle that yet...I did have a woman gift me pinkies the other day, though I know those are basically junk food for ferts. Even so, I've got 50 of them in my freezer right now! Try her on the lamb. Lamb is hypoallergenic so she should be okay. If she doesn't take to it right away use the beef soup to get her to eat it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2016 18:16:48 GMT -5
Also I didn't ask for a menu because it's really all over the place. Until we have more proteins and more bone in things I didn't want to ask. Same with organs and what not.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2016 18:19:06 GMT -5
You can also start with a new protein since she's doing well on the beef. Basically you just want to introduce protein once her poops are good go to another protein.
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Post by Aftershock on Aug 5, 2016 18:45:31 GMT -5
One thing I will point out that got pointed out to me by my mentor is that Cornish game hen is a juvenile animal, so the bones aren't as good on calcium. CGH should be served more as an occasional meal, not a main bone in meal. Piperskeeper, do you happen to have an Albertson's near you? I ended up being able to get them to order in Turkey necks for me. My mentor never mentioned that to me. I was going to use that as a main bone in meal for Shelby when she had an allergic reaction to chicken. I was told the Cornish game hen was similar to a chicken but ferrets who have issues with chicken sometimes are okay with game hen. Yeah, hurricanekatt put my menu in to heather to get approved and heather mentioned that CGH is a juvenile animal, so I'm having to switch my menu around since my main has been CGH. It was something that was overlooked because not many people use it as a main out of it being more expensive, so it is generally fed as an occasional.
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Post by Aftershock on Aug 5, 2016 19:11:43 GMT -5
Also I didn't ask for a menu because it's really all over the place. Until we have more proteins and more bone in things I didn't want to ask. Same with organs and what not. Honestly, I've seen starting menus with only chicken. And personally, making a menu helped me stress less and helped me figure out where to switch things out when I got new proteins. That's why I'm asking.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2016 20:27:23 GMT -5
My mentor never mentioned that to me. I was going to use that as a main bone in meal for Shelby when she had an allergic reaction to chicken. I was told the Cornish game hen was similar to a chicken but ferrets who have issues with chicken sometimes are okay with game hen. Yeah, hurricanekatt put my menu in to heather to get approved and heather mentioned that CGH is a juvenile animal, so I'm having to switch my menu around since my main has been CGH. It was something that was overlooked because not many people use it as a main out of it being more expensive, so it is generally fed as an occasional. Heather is on my Facebook I will message her. Thanks for bringing that to my attention no one ever said anything about it. I haven't seen it on the forum in threads.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2016 20:29:39 GMT -5
Also I didn't ask for a menu because it's really all over the place. Until we have more proteins and more bone in things I didn't want to ask. Same with organs and what not. Honestly, I've seen starting menus with only chicken. And personally, making a menu helped me stress less and helped me figure out where to switch things out when I got new proteins. That's why I'm asking. Makes sense. I guess since I was following the thread I already had a mental check list and obviously other people won't see it. I only made a menu when I had all my proteins and organs and made my menu that way. That was when I started the menu and adjusted accordingly with my mentor.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2016 20:34:46 GMT -5
@morgan2247 - You're right, I need to try her on lamb first. I'll have to go to the store tomorrow since they're closed, but she's trying the CGH tonight anyway! The good news is is that she is eating the beef stew meat in chunks with no soup now. VERY happy about that When introducing her to the ground deer, elk, turkey, etc, if she doesn't take to the ground right away, do I mix that with beef soup as well? Perfect let me know how she likes the Cornish game hen. You could probably use Cornish game hen once or twice a week. If it doesn't affect her negatively. It's like fish, people usually only feed it once a week. So if you have cgh in your menu twice a week that shouldn't be to much in one week. I know you don't have a lot of money so don't stress yourself out with expensive cuts. The cheaper the cut the better because usually they are fattier and that's how little Piper gets her energy. Yes, if she doesn't eat it by itself you can add some for example 1/2 elk meat to 1/2 beef soup and see what she does. We are just using the soup as a tool to get her to eat other proteins at this point. It also keeps her a little more balanced than just trying muscle meats for her to eat. She still needs calcium and organs and stuff as well which the soup has in it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2016 20:36:58 GMT -5
And since you don't have all the organs and proteins you want to use the soup is great to help keep it some what balanced. She won't have any issues as long as the faster we get her on a menu that is balanced the better.
Also her teeth will be fine. It's when she doesn't eat bones for years and no one brushes her teeth is when it negatively affects them.
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